fixed draws on new overhanging route?

[boadman]

Developing a great new line on a continuously overhanging wall. When does one think of leaving fixed draws, like at 32 or other places, vs expecting people to add qdraws as they go? I imagine that bolt placement might be slightly different for these scenarios. Clipping will definitely be strenuous in the middle of the route. Any thoughts from people who have developed new overhanging routes? I want to do it right the first time. Thanks.

 

Rad, I can't answer the question, but I was wondering what kind of scratch is this going to set you back?

 

On the fixed draw thing, to me, if it's just for convenience, then your basically littering and pissing off a large group of your peers. I don't mind the visual myself, but I know lots of others do so if it was me, I'd only leave them if it was very, very difficult to unclip them afterwards. In the end, this is your call. You might wait till some other folks climb it and see what they say as none of us knows a darn thing about your place.

 

Good luck.

 

Littering is generally defined as leaving garbage laying around instead of placing it in the proper receptacle. Putting nice, safe, incredibly convenient, unobtrusive fixed draws on over-hanging routes so that I don't have clean on my way down doesn't seem to qualify. Anyways, the climbers that it pisses off can't climb over-hanging rock and most likely won't ever see the offensive draws in the first place.

[matt_m]

These guys are out of Austin, TX and make good stuff. Many of these draws can be found around the limestone areas around here.

 

http://climbtech.myshopify.com/products/permadraws

[JosephH]

Littering is generally defined as leaving garbage laying around...

Correct.

 

Putting nice, safe, incredibly convenient, unobtrusive fixed draws on over-hanging routes so that I don't have clean on my way down doesn't seem to qualify...

It does qualify, it just means that you don't want it to qualify and that you're lazy and / or self-absorbed.

 

Anyways, the climbers that it pisses off can't climb over-hanging rock and most likely won't ever see the offensive draws in the first place.

Not at all.

 

But, if you are going to vertically litter (especially in a place it's illegal to climb) then at least camo your trash.

[billcoe]

Hah hah! (spoken in a sing-songy/yet snarky with hints of whining voice) I told you so! I told you so!

 

 

 

 

No one listens to me. I take solace in the fact that at least the dogs listen to me....sometimes anyway. Thanks for the Permadraw link Matt m. Those look awesome! Ugly, but awesome. http://climbtech.myshopify.com/products/permadraws I've figured out that if I clipped one of those to each of the recent bolts I've put in on bolted routes, it would cost somebody @$4,189.38. Perhaps I could finance it by the sale of hummocks to city folks who need table decorating?

My son Shaun (not spelled Shawn), who also often doesn't listen to me either.

[area51]

hey bill, how about adding these to that cost total, for every anchor you have put in!

 

http://www.fixeusa.com/v_anchor_draco.htm

[billcoe]

Paul, you and Kay must be swimming in scratch! Gasp....they list for $89.50 EACH!!!! Hopefully you are getting personalized thank you notes from folks showing up to lap your routes.

 

This is what I've been using. It's equivalent to their $39.95 unit now.

They're the old style Fixe Sport anchors that rated to 30 kn. 2 per rap station - they are 100% stainless steel although I've hit the visible ones with a light grey primer to keep the reflection down and reduce visibility, installed them with a 7" long stainless wedge anchor. I think that I have over 32 in place now. I like the thicker rod stock of the biner utilized on the ones you linked, but I see that the carabiners alone are $ 29.95 USD each for the Stainless steel!

 

I should share this: since I've installed the one in the top picture -where the biners do not touch when weighted, I've learned from Jim Titt at Bolt Products in Germany that if the bottoms of the biners can touch, it radically reduces oscillation and via less materiel loss improves the life of the unit, so they are being installed closer now, like the bottom unit.

 

 

It makes me nervous to have both bolts so close (@ 8 inches now) however, the rock doesn't have shear planes like normal basalt and although weaker and easier to drill, is very difficult to fracture and tougher when hammered on and better adapted to closer spacing.

 

 

 

[JosephH]

I wouldn't worry about them being that close together in normal basalt, but that stuff looks a bit sketch in that regard (hard to tell from a pic of course).

[fenderfour]

This is a little bit of drift, but...

 

what do you think about using these as anchors attached to standard bolt hangers?

 

 

[area51]

Did not mean to imply I'm using those b/c I'm not. I have put up a few fixe cold shuts, but mostly I'm a metolius rap hanger fan.

 

Good on you for putting the money into those anchors, its a sweet set up.

 

And not that anybody asked, but I assemble the bolt and hanger at home, then paint with primer. So no shine at all.

 

 

[area51]

those are nice Fenerfour, but I would buy just the QD and use my own old biners.

[fenderfour]

Someone would "booty" the carabiners. You will notice that the Climbtech biner is pinned to prevent theft.

[stevetimetravlr]

Got to say, Paul does it right and nary a complaint except for those scary shunts at the top of "da Eagle and da Crow" in the chossy overhang. Scares me everytime I clip em but sure makes for a smooth ride back down in a rough world. Most of the stuff he puts up is to hard for me to climb anyway.

[JosephH]

If you're going to be doing such littering then those cheap SS draws of fendorfour's combined with area51's class camo'ing would seem like a good way to go [as chains are pretty sucky].

[Rad]

Those wires remind me of times when I've slung hangerless bolts using nuts, sliding the nut up against the bolt so it doesn't pop off. Fun times.

[andyf]

Yes. That's how I led Explosive Energy Child, at Smith.