#1 Best Seller.

[prole]

That's a money back guarantee, folks! Don't delay!

 

If you get through this one, Jay, I'll give you a dollar.

 

 

 

Edited June 10, 2010 by prole

[JayB]

Ha! That reminds me...my first introduction to Keynesian Econ (though not Hayek's writings) was via an Econ 101 Course at a community college. I heard the professor who taught the class went on to bigger things, and it turns out he did! He was a pioneer in the world of TV Infomercials, and it looks like he did ok (his name is Barry Chappell):

 

http://www.fashowcase.com/

 

He beat Keynes into the class relentlessly. You would have been proud of him Jay.

 

 

 

 

The Keynes reference was kind of an inside joke. See below:

 

[video:youtube]d0nERTFo-Sk

[JayB]

If you get through this one, Jay, I'll give you a dollar.

 

 

 

Ditto:

 

 

 

[prole]

 

I'll wait for Glenn Beck's endorsement, thank you very much.

[ivan]

LOL! It's interesting that lacking anything smart or witty to say: people who don't like the ideas presented will attack you.

 

Thanks Jayb but I'll pass as it looks like the kind of book one reads to get put to sleep.

 

Keynes yes - Hayek no.

 

If you read "The Road to Serfdom" cover to cover and regret having done so I'll buy the book off of you for what you paid.

 

dunno 'bout buying it, but if you have a busted up copy you wanna pass along i'll enter into it el bano connection, which is chronically lacking a clean-up hitter

[JayB]

I'll wait for Glenn Beck's endorsement, thank you very much.

 

I'll give you *two* dollars if you read it and still claim to take the Labor Theory of Value seriously.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JayB]

LOL! It's interesting that lacking anything smart or witty to say: people who don't like the ideas presented will attack you.

 

Thanks Jayb but I'll pass as it looks like the kind of book one reads to get put to sleep.

 

Keynes yes - Hayek no.

 

If you read "The Road to Serfdom" cover to cover and regret having done so I'll buy the book off of you for what you paid.

 

dunno 'bout buying it, but if you have a busted up copy you wanna pass along i'll enter into it el bano connection, which is chronically lacking a clean-up hitter

 

If you'd read both pages before employing it as clean-up I'd consider it, but I only have a single copy.

 

I'd honestly be pretty surprised if you had any fundamental philosophical disagreements with Hayek if you were to read any of his oeuvre.

 

[j_b]

Except there is no need to read any of his stuff to know that he is dead wrong because some government intervention is absolutely necessary at the very least to manage resources and the environment. Moreover, reading his work won't tell you that Hayek thought Pinochet's Chilean dictatorship was the road to freedom, which puts the "freedom" versus "serfdom" rhetoric in perspective, i.e. the usual "war is peace" libertarian routine.

[ivan]

as a general rule, i'd say economists of any n' all stripes should be on the "b" ark we send out to explore the galaxy, right along w/ the hairdressers, TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, n' management consultants

[ivan]

perhaps the best chapter of dougals adams' magnus opus:

 

"... "I mean, I couldn't help noticing," said Ford, also taking a sip, "the bodies. In the hold."

 

"Bodies?" said the Captain in surprise.

 

Ford paused and thought to himself. Never take anything for granted, he thought. Could it be that the Captain doesn't know he's got fifteen million dead bodies on his ship?

 

The Captain was nodding cheerfully at him. He also appeared to be playing with a rubber duck.

 

Ford looked around. Number Two was staring at him in the mirror, but only for an instant: his eyes were constantly on the move. The first officer was just standing there holding the drinks tray and smiling benignly.

 

"Bodies?" said the Captain again.

 

Ford licked his lips.

 

"Yes," he said, "All those dead telephone sanitizers and account executives, you know, down in the hold."

 

The Captain stared at him. Suddenly he threw back his head and laughed.

 

"Oh they're not dead," he said, "Good Lord no, no they're frozen. They're going to be revived."

 

Ford did something he very rarely did. He blinked.

 

Arthur seemed to come out of a trance.

 

"You mean you've got a hold full of frozen hairdressers?" he said.

 

"Oh yes," said the Captain, "Millions of them. Hairdressers, tired TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, management consultants, you name them. We're going to colonize another planet."

 

Ford wobbled very slightly.

 

"Exciting isn't it?" said the Captain.

 

"What, with that lot?" said Arthur.

 

"Ah, now don't misunderstand me," said the Captain, "we're just one of the ships in the Ark Fleet. We're the 'B' Ark you see. Sorry, could I just ask you to run a bit more hot water for me?"

 

Arthur obliged, and a cascade of pink frothy water swirled around the bath. The Captain let out a sigh of pleasure.

 

"Thank you so much my dear fellow. Do help yourselves to more drinks of course."

 

Ford tossed down his drink, took the bottle from the first officer's tray and refilled his glass to the top.

 

"What," he said, "is a 'B' Ark?"

 

"This is," said the Captain, and swished the foamy water around joyfully with the duck.

 

"Yes," said Ford, "but ..."

 

"Well what happened you see was," said the Captain, "our planet, the world from which we have come, was, so to speak, doomed."

 

"Doomed?"

 

"Oh yes. So what everyone thought was, let's pack the whole population into some giant spaceships and go and settle on another planet."

 

Having told this much of his story, he settled back with a satisfied grunt.

 

"You mean a less doomed one?" prompted Arthur.

 

"What did you say dear fellow?"

 

"A less doomed planet. You were going to settle on."

 

"Are going to settle on, yes. So it was decided to build three ships, you see, three Arks in Space, and ... I'm not boring you am I?"

 

"No, no," said Ford firmly, "it's fascinating."

 

"You know it's delightful," reflected the Captain, "to have someone else to talk to for a change."

 

Number Two's eyes darted feverishly about the room again and then settled back on the mirror, like a pair of flies briefly distracted from their favourite prey of months old meat.

 

"Trouble with a long journey like this," continued the Captain,"is that you end up just talking to yourself a lot, which gets terribly boring because half the time you know what you're going to say next."

 

"Only half the time?" asked Arthur in surprise.

 

The Captain thought for a moment.

 

"Yes, about half I'd say. Anyway - where's the soap?" He fished around and found it.

 

"Yes, so anyway," he resumed, "the idea was that into the first ship, the 'A' ship, would go all the brilliant leaders, the scientists, the great artists, you know, all the achievers; and into the third, or 'C' ship, would go all the people who did the actual work, who made things and did things, and then into the `B' ship - that's us - would go everyone else, the middlemen you see."

 

He smiled happily at them.

 

"And we were sent off first," he concluded, and hummed a little bathing tune.

 

The little bathing tune, which had been composed for him by one of his world's most exciting and prolific jingle writer (who was currently asleep in hold thirty-six some nine hundred yards behind them) covered what would otherwise have been an awkward moment of silence. Ford and Arthur shuffled their feet and furiously avoided each other's eyes.

 

"Er ..." said Arthur after a moment, "what exactly was it that was wrong with your planet then?"

 

"Oh, it was doomed, as I said," said the Captain, "Apparently it was going to crash into the sun or something. Or maybe it was that the moon was going to crash into us. Something of the kind. Absolutely terrifying prospect whatever it was."

 

"Oh," said the first officer suddenly, "I thought it was that the planet was going to be invaded by a gigantic swarm of twelve foot piranha bees. Wasn't that it?"

 

Number Two span around, eyes ablaze with a cold hard light that only comes with the amount of practise he was prepared to put in.

 

"That's not what I was told!" he hissed, "My commanding officer told me that the entire planet was in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat!"

 

"Oh really ..." said Ford Prefect.

 

"Yes! A monstrous creature from the pit of hell with scything teeth ten thousand miles long, breath that would boil oceans, claws that could tear continents from their roots, a thousand eyes that burned like the sun, slavering jaws a million miles across, a monster such as you have never ... never ... ever ..."

 

"And they made sure they sent you lot off first did they?" inquired Arthur.

 

"Oh yes," said the Captain, "well everyone said, very nicely I thought, that it was very important for morale to feel that they would be arriving on a planet where they could be sure of a good haircut and where the phones were clean."

 

"Oh yes," agreed Ford, "I can see that would be very important. And the other ships, er ... they followed on after you did they?"

 

For a moment the Captain did not answer. He twisted round in his bath and gazed backwards over the huge bulk of the ship towards the bright galactic centre. He squinted into the inconceivable distance.

 

"Ah. Well it's funny you should say that," he said and allowed himself a slight frown at Ford Prefect, "because curiously enough we haven't heard a peep out of them since we left five years ago ... but they must be behind us somewhere."

 

He peered off into the distance again.

 

Ford peered with him and gave a thoughtful frown.

 

"Unless of course," he said softly, "they were eaten by the goat ..."

 

"Ah yes ..." said the Captain with a slight hesitancy creeping into his voice, "the goat ..." His eyes passed over the solid shapes of the instruments and computers that lined the bridge. They winked away innocently at him. He stared out at the stars, but none of them said a word. He glanced at his first and second officers, but they seemed lost in their own thoughts for a moment. He glanced at Ford Prefect who raised his eyebrows at him.

 

"It's a funny thing you know," said the Captain at last, "but now that I actually come to tell the story to someone else ..."

 

"

[Hugh Conway]

I'll wait for Glenn Beck's endorsement, thank you very much.

 

I'll give you *two* dollars if you read it and still claim to take the Labor Theory of Value seriously.

 

Because any Economist who thinks Hayek is full of it is obviously wrong....

[billcoe]

ROTFLMAO! Hitchhikers guide, A+ . That part has stayed with me as well and still gets a laugh. There are even recent occasions where I'll grab a towel for a trip and bust up thinking of it....

 

I will take you up on the generous full value offer Jayb, however, I have 27 books stacked in front of that one. It's Ivan's fault of course. I bought the complete Patrick O'Brian Aubrey/Maturin series, and once I finished reading them all, wanted to re-read them. Just starting in with Master and commander again.

 

Hey jb, admit it, you never read Jayb recommended work and are merely looking at the cliff note/internet summation...LOL! Besides that, it says this about the author:

F. A. Hayek (1899-1992), recipient of the Medal of Freedom in 1991 and co-winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics in 1974, was a pioneer in monetary theory and a leading proponent of classical liberalism in the twentieth century. He taught at the University of London, the University of Chicago, and the University of Freiburg." ...and of course, as you are always regaling us with your wit and your wisdom, you, at least, know you are much smarter than this guy.

 

Jayb, went to buy it and wanted a hardcover for $3. Didn't get it. Hardcovers are $26! I might wait.

Edited June 10, 2010 by billcoe

[G-spotter]

Except there is no need to read any of his stuff to know that he is dead wrong because some government intervention is absolutely necessary at the very least to manage resources and the environment. Moreover, reading his work won't tell you that Hayek thought Pinochet's Chilean dictatorship was the road to freedom, which puts the "freedom" versus "serfdom" rhetoric in perspective, i.e. the usual "war is peace" libertarian routine.

 

and hitler was a vegetarian, so vegetarianism must be wrong

[JayB]

Except there is no need to read any of his stuff to know that he is dead wrong because some government intervention is absolutely necessary at the very least to manage resources and the environment. Moreover, reading his work won't tell you that Hayek thought Pinochet's Chilean dictatorship was the road to freedom, which puts the "freedom" versus "serfdom" rhetoric in perspective, i.e. the usual "war is peace" libertarian routine.

 

One bonus of actually reading his work is that you'd at least be able to coble together an accurate caricature.

 

He was a liberal, not an anarchist, so he didn't spend his time debating whether or not government was necessary, but rather the proper scope of government.

 

His argument vis-a-vis Pinochet was that the the operation of market forces would generate a political dynamic that would be far more likely to undermine authoritarianism than to reinforce it.

[JayB]

ROTFLMAO! Hitchhikers guide, A+ . That part has stayed with me as well and still gets a laugh. There are even recent occasions where I'll grab a towel for a trip and bust up thinking of it....

 

I will take you up on the generous full value offer Jayb, however, I have 27 books stacked in front of that one. It's Ivan's fault of course. I bought the complete Patrick O'Brian Aubrey/Maturin series, and once I finished reading them all, wanted to re-read them. Just starting in with Master and commander again.

 

Hey jb, admit it, you never read Jayb recommended work and are merely looking at the cliff note/internet summation...LOL! Besides that, it says this about the author:

F. A. Hayek (1899-1992), recipient of the Medal of Freedom in 1991 and co-winner of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economics in 1974, was a pioneer in monetary theory and a leading proponent of classical liberalism in the twentieth century. He taught at the University of London, the University of Chicago, and the University of Freiburg." ...and of course, as you are always regaling us with your wit and your wisdom, you, at least, know you are much smarter than this guy.

 

Jayb, went to buy it and wanted a hardcover for $3. Didn't get it. Hardcovers are $26! I might wait.

 

Probably a wise choice while the run is on, but keep it on the list.

[JayB]

as a general rule, i'd say economists of any n' all stripes should be on the "b" ark we send out to explore the galaxy, right along w/ the hairdressers, TV producers, insurance salesmen, personnel officers, security guards, public relations executives, n' management consultants

 

More of a social scientist/philosopher than what passes for an economist these days. Reads much more like DeTocqueville than DeBreu.

[ivan]

de tocqueville mostly makes me need to go to the bathroom - he does make for the occasional fine sound-byte though...

[KaskadskyjKozak]

de tocqueville mostly makes me need to go to the bathroom

 

FAP FAP FAP

[prole]

His argument vis-a-vis Pinochet was that the the operation of market forces would generate a political dynamic that would be far more likely to undermine authoritarianism than to reinforce it.

 

More free-market mythmaking and obfuscation with regard to both the social dynamics that brought the Pinochet regime down as well as the numerous contemporary authoritarian states where "free markets" have been imposed that are still waiting for that heavenly manna that's "sure to follow" from privatization, deregulation, tax cuts, union busting, cuts to social budgets, and the penetration of American corporations. The kind of "no pain, no gain" moral relativism at the core of your statement also lays bare the false libertarianism and violence at work in the heart of market utopianism: it's our way or the highway, there is no alternative and we have the guns to prove it. Gross.

[ivan]

so which ark you n' jb are planning on hitch'n?

[j_b]

Even Thatcher who was a bully thought that Hayek had gone off the deep end:

 

"Friedrich von Hayek, the Austrian émigré and University of Chicago professor whose 1944 Road to Serfdom dared to suggest that state planning would produce not "freedom and prosperity" but "bondage and misery," visited Pinochet's Chile a number of times. He was so impressed that he held a meeting of his famed Société Mont Pélérin there. He even recommended Chile to Thatcher as a model to complete her free-market revolution. The Prime Minister, at the nadir of Chile's 1982 financial collapse, agreed that Chile represented a "remarkable success" but believed that Britain's "democratic institutions and the need for a high degree of consent" make "some of the measures" taken by Pinochet "quite unacceptable."

 

Like Friedman, Hayek glimpsed in Pinochet the avatar of true freedom, who would rule as a dictator only for a "transitional period," only as long as needed to reverse decades of state regulation. "My personal preference," he told a Chilean interviewer, "leans toward a liberal dictatorship rather than toward a democratic government devoid of liberalism." In a letter to the London Times he defended the junta, reporting that he had "not been able to find a single person even in much maligned Chile who did not agree that personal freedom was much greater under Pinochet than it had been under Allende." Of course, the thousands executed and tens of thousands tortured by Pinochet's regime weren't talking.

 

http://bloodandtreasure.typepad.com/blood_treasure/2006/11/hayekian_dictat.html

 

for the uninitiated in Hayek's parlance 'liberal' means more or less unfettered capitalism

[prole]

He was a liberal, not an anarchist, so he didn't spend his time debating whether or not government was necessary, but rather the proper scope of government.

 

Rather, what kind of State and State power was necessary to maintain capitalism and class rule.

[j_b]

so which ark you n' jb are planning on hitch'n?

 

in the no dogma/no ideology ark for me please.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

so which ark you n' jb are planning on hitch'n?

 

in the no dogma/no ideology ark for me please.

 

:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[j_b]

He was a liberal, not an anarchist, so he didn't spend his time debating whether or not government was necessary, but rather the proper scope of government.

 

like you guys are for the "proper scope of government" and we get to enjoy the mess you created every day.