Mystery Bolter West Side Cascades

[Checat]

Billcoe you have inspired me to get off others threads and go out on limb. Thanks for clarifying that elgin had a bolt in 76 in the thread Public Notice, billcoe. You won't find beef with me for bolts like that, bolting situations like the historic and retrobolted "convenience bolts" for example: trout creek, meadow camp and maria lane boulders sisters come to mind>

 

All(most) are top-rope applications that beyond saving potential injury for many a new climber in many situations, and all are saving the lives of very sensitive trees in the high desert - all good reasons to bolt sparingly. Beyond these quality reasons for having tr/rap bolts these particular situations have potentially prevented modern yahoos from showing up and putting the kind of new lead bolts that are the case in point of a more relevant thread to bolting - seperate from the Ozone/DropZone/Farside Shenanigans - but probably pertinent to the issues of whether areas that have been climbed non-bolted deserve new bolts if it opens things up for a new generation -

 

FRANCOIS !!!!

 

 

I'm going at on a limb both posting a photo of a boulder (most on this thread seem a little anti pebble-tugging) and i'm going out on a limb posting on an area that is supposed to be relatively hush hush. But,

 

I was pretty pissed off when I saw new lead bolts on highball boulder problems I used to both solo and top-rope, and then to find out that the intial developer sender the problem was also beyond frustrated that someone would add a new bolt where he and others were going ropeless for over a decade -

 

The gray area associated to what is a highball boulder, what is a solo, what is adequate to have simply top rope/rap bolts, what deserves lead bolts etc...

 

While I bring this post up because I really am interested in finding out WHO RETROBOLTED BIG FRED BOULDER - NEW LEAD BOLTS ON FRANCOIS, FRED and

 

worse than that WHO RETROBOLTED AZIAN CRACK (On Hula Boulder opposite big fred) Even I, the wussiest soloist in the world was doing this 5.7 on gear/run it out in my first year of climbing sans new bolts. Retro-bolting this line is tantamount to adding new bolts to the Hyrdotube and with all due respect to the the Inital Developer of the Big Fred Boulder I am actually a bit more pissed that Hula boulders has lead bolts. To put new top-rope bolts would be absolutely reasonable, and is in order with a lot of available lines, but THESE (Azians) lead bolts are an absolute travesty and no one can convince me they should be left there.

 

Why bring this rant on bolting at a ho hum crag - Because it should not continue. Bolting there should, but not the way its going down - on lines that have been well established and repeated year in and year out likely before the Mystery Bolter was even in climbing. This person has made a huge error but it can be rectified - bolt movement anyone?

 

Let the Flaming begin...

[kevbone]

I cant see any bolts in your pictures.

[Checat]

They are there. Whoever put them there knows what they are looking at. When your walking the shiny stuff starts meeting you at basketball hoop height instead of humbly tucked away at the top of the band, out of site of non-climbers...

 

Resolution is jacked, i know. I literally had to scan a copy of a photo because i could not make a .png get small enough. had to settle for the scans...

[billcoe]

I'm sure sorry to see it happen. I like the challenge of looking up at a big assed boulder and wondering if I'm good enough....and often walking away if I don't have a posse to egg me on:-) One of the issues is that people do not know they are not the first (coupled with ease of drilling these days). Secrecy works against you. They didn't know you've been lapping the thing without bolts for year and years.

 

BTW, I thought I said that I don't remember bolts at Elgin in 76. Rattlesnakes, sure. No bolts. Don't know what it looks like now. I know that Lute Jerstat had put in the bolts on top at Angel Basin back when, (actually, Dave Jensen had put them in for him) little steel Rawl split shank 1/4'ers. They seemed like a great thing there in the crackless granite.

 

I can feel your sadness and wish you well in your quest Checat.

[Checat]

Secrecy works against you. They didn't know you've been lapping the thing without bolts for year and years.

 

Hitting nail on head!

 

The gift and the curse of oregon crags - you want the things to be established and stay clean, but you want it for yourself

 

For a very different crag this has been my swan song for what feels like a very long time now...mooooooojjjjjaccccckkkk....

 

So post blow-up analysis of that whole Farside/Dropzone mess relevant to the argument-

 

Was it made clear to a new generation of climbers that the line (and others like it) had been climbed without the "new" crimper(username) bolts?

 

[corvallisclimb]

You ever posted any real climbing content other than the same old bitching about bolts? I mean theres a time and place but comeon dude seriously most people don't give a shit, go climbing and post about that, quit the bitching about bolts your not getting youself ANYWHERE. Nor are you setting any standards. Give up your elitist attitude and just go climbing.

 

 

Not trying to start some fight, I just want to see climbing content instead of the non stop bitch sessions. If I could be the mod, I would just delete these threads the second thaey start up.

[Checat]

 

 

Not trying to start some fight, I just want to see climbing content

 

then don't participate in the thread. it has nothiing to do with you right? its not a climbing area of interest or pertinance.

 

You think maybe you could just move on from it, or does its mere presence bother you?

 

I ignore threads all the time. I don't muck with and completely ignore your "pinnacle" threads all the time because it doesn't stoke me. I don't need to make a big deal to you about how they bore me and how I don't feel they have their place - I leave it and ignore it. Try it

 

Climbing content that will be gained from me will be in guidebook form for a number of areas that up until this point cannot be featured on a website like this so, as far as "contributing content" - pm me, i trade content with people all the time, on a private basis because of where i climb

 

just got back from climbing with my daughter. Will probably put some stoke up - but everyone on this website is anti-bouldering so you can't please everybody i guess...

[corvallisclimb]

 

 

Not trying to start some fight, I just want to see climbing content

 

then don't participate in the thread. it has nothiing to do with you right? its not a climbing area of interest or pertinance.

 

You think maybe you could just move on from it, or does its mere presence bother you?

 

I ignore threads all the time. I don't muck with and completely ignore your "pinnacle" threads all the time because it doesn't stoke me. I don't need to make a big deal to you about how they bore me and how I don't feel they have their place - I leave it and ignore it. Try it

 

Climbing content that will be gained from me will be in guidebook form for a number of areas that up until this point cannot be featured on a website like this so, as far as "contributing content" - pm me, i trade content with people all the time, on a private basis because of where i climb

 

just got back from climbing with my daughter. Will probably put some stoke up - but everyone on this website is anti-bouldering so you can't please everybody i guess...

 

Put this thread in spray then, because its relavance to Oregon Climbing is zilch. Bolting on those bolders has been discussed before, and no one gives a shit! You've lost the pure essence of climbing. Keep dreaming of trying to make a profit of writing a guide book. Have fun and please try to be less serious. I'll stay outta your threads, but if your going to post a bitch fest keep it elsewhere!

[JosephH]

Doesn't sound like anything was done about them if they were discussed before so maybe it really is the case no one gives a shit about them. However, inappropriate bolting is always going to be a valid topic in climbing forums vs. spray.

[Checat]

I'll say it again: THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!

 

On behalf of myself, the initial developers of these particular boulders, and other climbers who go to this area and who have been outraged by these new bolts I am making an effort to track down the person who added these bolts and correct the problem. When I chop them it will be no mystery because I am putting this out there.

 

I don't care to make a "profit" in any climbing endeavor. I have thrown thousands of dollars towards the production of climbing guidebooks and I have distributed this material because I care about the activity and the people that partake, not because I will ever recoup the hours and ink cartridges that have stacked up in a decade.

 

At least my bitching at someone errantly placing bolts is something that has to do with me because I'm the one calling it out and swinging the crowbar. You are bitching - and this doesn't even have effect for you, you have nothing to do with it!

 

I've lost the pure essence of climbing - Bullshit -

 

If I am one of the few that gives a shit to see unneeded, obtrusive bolts where they shouldn't be. Re-establishing the Azian Crack the way it was in the late 90's when it was first climbed - boltelss- I'm trying to tap back into the essence of real climbing not "convenience climbing".

 

If you have no regard for those that came before you and climbed with bolts for a very very long period of time - why - my assumption is your the same kind of developer who can't feel like a route has seen "your" ascent if it hasn't seen "your" bolt.

 

If you didn't place the bolts, and aren't even bringing an opinion or more information in regard to the area - don't post- go talk more about your aid lines and leave other peoples topics alone -

 

Case in point - I was there yesterday, spoke to some folks, found out where the bolter is from and found out that he rarely if ever returns. His friend, who I met, identified it as a boner mistake that He (bolters buddy that I met) told Mystery Bolter that he was wrong and if he kept it up there would be consequences.

 

I did not start this thread to bitch and call out. Getting in touch with a newer generation of visitors to this area in conjunction with communication with the initial developers to the area is important steps for me before I turn them fixe five pieces into top-rope bolts elsewhere. If I said nothing, chopped, then dealt with the repercussions - I'm part of the problem, not a solution...

 

P.S. corvallisclimb just so understand - you are not the foremost authority on what is relevant to "Oregon Climbing". You are just ONE climber, get over yourself.

[corvallisclimb]

I'll say it again: THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU!

 

On behalf of myself, the initial developers of these particular boulders, and other climbers who go to this area and who have been outraged by these new bolts I am making an effort to track down the person who added these bolts and correct the problem. When I chop them it will be no mystery because I am putting this out there.

 

I don't care to make a "profit" in any climbing endeavor. I have thrown thousands of dollars towards the production of climbing guidebooks and I have distributed this material because I care about the activity and the people that partake, not because I will ever recoup the hours and ink cartridges that have stacked up in a decade.

 

At least my bitching at someone errantly placing bolts is something that has to do with me because I'm the one calling it out and swinging the crowbar. You are bitching - and this doesn't even have effect for you, you have nothing to do with it!

 

I've lost the pure essence of climbing - Bullshit -

 

If I am one of the few that gives a shit to see unneeded, obtrusive bolts where they shouldn't be. Re-establishing the Azian Crack the way it was in the late 90's when it was first climbed - boltelss- I'm trying to tap back into the essence of real climbing not "convenience climbing".

 

If you have no regard for those that came before you and climbed with bolts for a very very long period of time - why - my assumption is your the same kind of developer who can't feel like a route has seen "your" ascent if it hasn't seen "your" bolt.

 

If you didn't place the bolts, and aren't even bringing an opinion or more information in regard to the area - don't post- go talk more about your aid lines and leave other peoples topics alone -

 

Case in point - I was there yesterday, spoke to some folks, found out where the bolter is from and found out that he rarely if ever returns. His friend, who I met, identified it as a boner mistake that He (bolters buddy that I met) told Mystery Bolter that he was wrong and if he kept it up there would be consequences.

 

I did not start this thread to bitch and call out. Getting in touch with a newer generation of visitors to this area in conjunction with communication with the initial developers to the area is important steps for me before I turn them fixe five pieces into top-rope bolts elsewhere. If I said nothing, chopped, then dealt with the repercussions - I'm part of the problem, not a solution...

 

P.S. corvallisclimb just so understand - you are not the foremost authority on what is relevant to "Oregon Climbing". You are just ONE climber, get over yourself.

 

You are a serious ass hole. I never tryed to be a dick, or say I'm "the foremost authority on to Oregon Climbing". I just have a serious passion for all things regarding Oregon Climbing, and that seems to piss you off. You honesly hate me for no fucking reason and it is so fucking lame. Fuck off dude, your guide book is going to blow ass and no one will fucking buy that peice of shit. So ya keep dreaming of the profits. YOU ARE A TOTAL DICK! AND EVEYONE I KNOW THAT KNOWS YOU SAYS THAT.

 

I'm done with you and all your bullshit so don't even bother to respond. Because I won't.

[Checat]

Don't post. The topic doesn't concern you. You know what is going to happen when you post, so stop trolling. If the area is not relevant to you, and you have nothing to say in regard to whether retro-bolting of establish routes - THEN DON'T POST.

 

 

[crimper]

checat, what does this mean? (cut and pasted from page one)

 

"Was it made clear to a new generation of climbers that the line (and others like it) had been climbed without the "new" crimper(username) bolts?"

 

i only ask because you seem to be referring to me, and to drop zone, and i wonder why you are connecting that crag to your bouldering spot...but maybe i shouldn't have bothered to ask...

 

you can send me a PM too instead

[Checat]

Because these topic threads are too often muddled when folks companion private mesage to their posts, I'll just answer your question here cause this topic is obviously hiiiiiiiiijjjjjjjaaaaacked....

 

 

crimper, I was in no way identifying what you did as "wrong" or irresponsible - i was simply trying to use the case scenario at dropzone to potentially get at the heart of the problem with retro - bolting - If initial developers of bolt-less or minimally bolted climbing routes keep their areas quiet, choosing not to "...ma(k)e it clear to a new generation of climbers..." you can't really blame or be upset with the retro-bolter. How would they have known?

 

crimper - when you added bolts to the line in question at dropzone, whether you knew the line went bolt-less or not is irrelevant, because the next guy to come along that didn't know whether the route had been climbed or not WILL put the bolt in.

 

If it wasn't you it might be someone less informed of the areas ethics, styles and tactics. But if the information about the route was out there and your bolts still went in - that is a true "convenience" scenario. The bolting on Fred and Azian doesn't even fall into the "convenience" category or even opening the lines up to more people. If you are making initial VHard moves of Fred the 5.easy topout shouldn't be something you need bolts for. Azian - same situation - if you just made the 5.8 move without a bolt, why do you need one for the 5.6 that follows. And regardless of a highball/solo on Azian, the line takes cams and nuts. These bolts don't even make sense and it stinks of " I put a bolt in so others know I was there" which is irresponsible.

 

 

Because this completely hijacked thread will never go anywhere for the same old reasons - i'll just conclude things with - I don't blame those that put new bolts on Big Fred and Azian Boulder. There was no reason for them to know because no guide exists and its history has gone unreported. But the bolts will be removed, and you should know why - so you can get your hardware back if you no longer want to contribute it towards top anchors elsewhere in the area:)

 

[justinp]

[justinp]

[justinp]

Public Notice

[crimper]

i'm on a road shaped like a figure 8

i'm going nowhere but i'm guaranteed to be late

[Checat]

[kevbone]

I understand your concerns. Please tell me where the boulders are......

[phillygoat]

I'm trying to tap back into the essence of real climbing not "convenience climbing".

 

Godspeed, Checat! Godspeed!

[denalidave]

I understand your concerns. Please tell me where the boulders are......

[Off_White]

Hey now boys, don't make me call Lancegranite in to mediate...

[Raindawg]

thanks for posting some real climbing content and having the strength to bitch about bolts. Unfortunately, most people don't give a sh*t, they just go climbing and post about that, ignoring that there are ethical considerations anytime anyone chooses to mar the landscape with bolts. thanks for setting some well-needed standards. Your perspective isn't an elitist attitude, it's progressive! Keep on climbing!

 

Not trying to start some fight, I just want to see some thoughtful climbing content instead of the non stop clueless "it's all good!" sessions. If I could be the mod, I would just delete the ethically unexamined threads the second thaey start up.

 

 

Thanks, "someone more thoughtful than corvallisclimb"!

 

 

[Raindawg]

I cant see any bolts in your pictures.

 

Checat: responding to the above comment by "the bone", check out the following examples of the photographic exhibition of bolt excess. Use Photoshop, go to the paint tool, and circle everyone of those pathetic suckers in red!