Basic ice rack

[AlexandraOnIce]

What set of screws (and other gear) would one want in a basic ice rack? The idea being to become the one with the gear and able to lead 3 to 4 pitches water or alpine ice routes? So far I have two 16cm screws, a 60m 9.2mm rope, ice tools, 1-front-point crampons, a handful of quick-draws and a small army of binners in various shape.

[summitchaserCJB]

Yes, I LOVE talking about gear. First I'd get some slings. Probably at least 5-8 standard size and a couple doubles. You also probably want another rope. The beal joker is nice if you want to use them as halfs/twins (if your current rope can be used as such). This is just for raps primarily but can be used to minimize rope drag and just increase safety overall. Obviously you'll want some more screws (maybe 5 more). Maybe someone else can mention what size because all my screws are old school (but good enough for WI2+). Might want to add a picket as well depending on the route. For instance the North face of Chair peak requires two pickets right now.

[TrogdortheBurninator]

sounds like you are off to a good start. for pure ice, starting out, I'd aim for a total of 6 16cms, 4 13 cms, 1 22 cm. maybe one more each of 13 and 16 if you like to err on the side of caution. note that 12 screws total often means only 8 lead screws (2 for each anchor). I prefer double ropes, but a single is fine, just add a tag line if you need longer raps.

[Dirtyleaf]

Save all the money you would spend on an ice rack, spend it on booze, and find someone who already has everything you want and just use their shit.

[Dane]

8 Mammut "screamer" QDs, 2 regular QDs, 20 lwt wire gate biners and 8 screws, perferably Grivel Helix, shorties, red and black size. That will pretty much get you up anything @ WI5 in the NA.

[jon]

Check out our Ice Gear Article

 

http://cascadeclimbers.com/ice/gear/

[Pilchuck71]

Save all the money you would spend on an ice rack, spend it on booze, and find someone who already has everything you want and just use their shit.

[Dirtyleaf]

I'm sayin' it because no matter what, given enough time, everyone you know who climbs will have everything and will always want to use their own shit. Be the smart one. Save your dough.

[summitchaserCJB]

There is definitely some merit to that observation.

[Pilchuck71]

I'm sayin' it because no matter what, given enough time, everyone you know who climbs will have everything and will always want to use their own shit. Be the smart one. Save your dough.

 

True story, but some of us are rampant gear whores and like to swim through our stash of implements like Scrooge McDuck.

 

[robpatterson5]

[denalidave]

Save all the money you would spend on an ice rack, spend it on booze, and find someone who already has everything you want and just use their shit.

But wont he need the rack when he goes free solo ice climbing?

[genepires]

chances are you partner will have some stuff, so shooting for half of what Trog says for all of what Dane says seems right.

 

I don't know where you would put a picket on chair right now. That thing is all sugary and wouldn't hold squat. There are good trees and ice to anchor to.

Edited February 27, 2010 by genepires

[Dannible]

Some might think he's joking, but Dirtyleaf's words have a lot of truth to them. If money is an issue one doesn't need to go out and buy the 8-15 screws that could be needed to climb multi pitch routes, buy half that with the assumption that the people you climb with will have some too. If your partner has no screws, maybe spend the day toproping or climbing easier routes to help them get to the point where they want to get some gear for themselves.

 

I've come to find that this works with rock gear too. I don't have doubles of cams in all sizes, but if I'm climbing something that requires them usually I'm with someone who has at least a set to add. If I'm climbing with Dirtyleaf I don't bring shit because he has everything (except a helmet).

[Dannible]

Gene beat me to it.

[summitchaserCJB]

Gene-

No offense but I think you are talking out of your ass.

"I don't know where you would put a picket on chair right now. That thing is all sugary and wouldn't hold squat. There are good trees and ice to anchor to."

 

I've climbed it twice in the last week and there were Bomber picket placements the whole way and pickets were the ONLY pro for much of the second pitch and the first pitch belay. This was true espesially Tuesday. So, unless you are talking about Wednesday or Thusday you see reality differently than most.

Edited February 27, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[Dane]

Yes, I LOVE talking about gear.

 

Easy there lad.

Gene doesn't need any help but "I love to talk about gear" doesn't mean you know squat about using the gear. Gene's opinions I value.

 

Talking out of YOUR ass might keep you from recognising the fact you could easily and safely protect all of Chair with a few screws and slings. No pickets or pins required. Oh, and it might help to know that a picket is the least reliable piece of climbing protection still in use. In all the climbing I have done...I find it signifigant that I have NEVER placed one.

[summitchaserCJB]

"Talking out of YOUR ass might keep you from recognising the fact you could easily and safely protect all of Chair with a few bomber screws and slings. No pickets or pins required."

 

Not everyone likes to put themselves into huge X or R rated fall scenarios. How do you protect the first pitch belay? Do you expect screws to hold in semi-consolidated alpine ice? I don't. I just think it is funny how his opinion matters more than mine when I have a good amount of experience.

And another thing is- he was flat wrong about the pickets. Just because it is doable without pickets doesn't mean pickets are worthless. That was really my own point and it is fucking true. Ask anyone who actually did Chair this last week.

Edited February 27, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[Dane]

I just think it is funny how his opinion matters more than mine when I have a good amount of experience.

 

Experience? Really? What experience do you have on snow and ice besides two trips up Chair on a fat year in exceptionally easy conditions. Now you are saying Chair, which is a simple WI2, is a X or R rated climb without pickets? How about a list of your experience so I can better judge your opinions?

 

Gene on the other hand has climbed and guided paying clients for several years. Last I heard they all lived.

 

Opinions are good. Getting told by someone you are "talking out their ass" in public isn't all that pleasant I suspect. Might help to remember what Gene or another skilled snow and ice climber might find trivial, someone else with less experience might find R or even X rated. The next guy along might find it a good ski decent.

 

[summitchaserCJB]

Good well maybe he shouldn't shoot down my shit when he doesn't know what he is talking about.

I've rock climbed seriously for 6-7 years (and I mean trad leading not TR). Snow creek wall, dragontail, Squamish, damnation crack, Godzilla, Heart of the country, Princely ambitions, angel, Condomorphine addiction, doin the dishes (5.11d), Canary, ect, done a little climbing in Spain as well.

I've guided a party up Baker, done Adams, Hood, Saint Helens, Soloed Sahale (quien sabre) , soloed the tooth-hemlock traverse, Mt Thomson, soloed all of GNS at Index, soloed classic crack (who hasn't) done the tooth in mixed conditions. My first ice lead was WI3 R (up from source lake, tied off ice screws)- not proud of that one- a fall would have been sketchy at best. gonna do Denali in 2011 and Rainier in June. N face of chair x 2. I'm probably missing a few but that is good for now.

Edited February 27, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[TrogdortheBurninator]

The idea being to become the one with the gear...

quick quote for all the reading comp experts

[Dane]

CJB...you might want to ask Gene how many times he has actually done Rainier and been to Denali before you start slinging shit or getting insulted.

 

"That thing is all sugary and wouldn't hold squat. There are good trees and ice to anchor to.

 

Commenting on the ability of a picket to "hold squat" in any snow condition is not "shooting down your shit" but a comment on the reality and reliability of pickets. Trees and ice are the more reliable pro on Chair. Experience would tell you that.

 

 

[summitchaserCJB]

Ok. I don't know where he got that info but those pickets would have held anything. I know what sugary snow is- I've lived and skied in the PNW my whole life.

Edited February 27, 2010 by summitchaserCJB

[AlexandraOnIce]

Pretty feisty around here. I think I'm going to like it ;-)

 

DirtyLeaf - I hear ya. That's been my main strategy for ice and rock (I'm fully equipped for glacier travel, with spares), but I've lately been put in the situation a couple of times where I had a partner with experience but no gear. I don't want to miss out on climbs for lack of gear. Sometimes girls just want to climb with girls, and asking a guy to come along just because he's got a nice rack just won't do. Know whadda mean?

 

I couldn't go out get it all even if I wanted to - unless one of you wants to fund my climbing addiction. I mostly wanted to get an idea of how much $ I'm looking at in the long run and also what to acquire next time I do get some extra cash.

 

Jon, that ice Gear article was useful. Thanks for the link.

 

Okay, sorry to interrupt, you can resume your strife now!

[summitchaserCJB]

"Pretty feisty around here. I think I'm going to like it ;-)"

Welcome.