making your own quickdraws?

[iain]

scripted

 

thanks for queuing up the ptop though

[catbirdseat]

Don't mention it.

[chucK]

catbirdseat said:

Is there a safety advantage/ or disadvantage to free rotation of the biner to which the rope is clipped?

 

Assuming you're talking about draws that are somewhat stiff so as to also aid in the clipping process.

 

Advantage: less likely that rope will come unclipped when the climber falls past the draw and the rope (on the climbers side of the draw) just happens to fall across the gate (this can be mitigated somewhat by orienting the biner to have the gate opening facing up). Also possibly less likely that biner can get held over some edge and thus get torqued over it in a fall (and break completely).

 

Disadvantage: more difficult to clip, and a fall is less safe if you do it just before the clip than just after.

[JoshK]

chucK said:

 

Disadvantage: more difficult to clip, and a fall is less safe if you do it just before the clip than just after.

 

I might be dense, but it seems to me that a fall just *before* the clip is gonna have the same result no matter how the hell you attach the rope to the piece...meaning that particular piece is going to do no good.

[chucK]

Right, that was my point. Your quickdraw isn't going to do you any good if it's not attached to the bolt. Thus, it's a bit of a compromise. The stiff quickdraw will help you get clipped quicker (if you're clipping a non-spinner bolt hanger), but is more prone to failure when falling on it a bit later. Each person needs to weight which of these factors looms more heavily in their own climbing style.

 

If you're climbing on gear I see no reason to be using those deadly dogbone draws. If you're climbing a route bolted by a tall guy like Brian Burdo, you might consider bringing a couple of "cheater" draws.

[Peter_Puget]

ChucK -What's a dogbone draw?

[Dru]

fixing the lower biner DOES have the advantage that a fall is less likely to crossload. it is easier for the "floating" lower biner to move around into a crossloadable position than it is for this to happen to a fixed biner.

[catbirdseat]

It seems to me that unless you are back clipping, the probability of cross-loading (with a free spinning biner) in a fall is greater than unclipping (with a fixed biner). On sport routes I will stay with the draws I've been using (and which most everyone uses). On trad routes, I am inclined to stop using quickdraws entirely and use either single runners (either tripled or extended) or else small open runners.

[chucK]

CBS, not many people care WHAT you do. On this board though there may be interest in WHY you think that way. Your post appears paradoxical. WHY do you choose to eschew fixed biners on trad routes? I think Dru makes a good point.

 

 

Edited May 16, 2003 by chucK

[catbirdseat]

chucK said:

CBS, not many people care WHAT you do. On this board though there may be interest in WHY you think that way. Your post appears paradoxical. WHY do you choose to eschew fixed biners on trad routes? I think Dru makes a good point.

 

Sorry, I didn't explain my thinking at all. The reason why in my mind is that the risk of the piece of pro being dislodged by having a fixed biner outweighs the risk of cross-loading in a fall. This is because the fixed biner transmits more vibrations from the rope to the piece.

[Peter_Puget]

Dogbone? What is it?

 

Sorry if somebody has mentioned this earlier in the thread but -

 

I sometimes bring one of these set-ups on a route:

 

Materials:

 

2 ea. ‘biners

1 ea. Spectra sling

1 ea Length of high pressure tubing from auto store slightly shorter than sling.

 

Cut groove for carabiner at both ends of tubing. Thread sling through tubing and secure a ‘biner to each end.

 

Usage:

 

Slide tubing up to carabiner at the clip to bolt end of draw. This stabilizes the ‘biner and enables your reach to be extended simply by holding the bottom of draw. After clipping the bolt the tubing slides down and semi secures bottom ‘biner while freeing the bolt side.

 

Not for everyday use but on routes with bad clips this system works.

 

PP

 

Edited May 16, 2003 by Peter_Puget

[catbirdseat]

I'm not sure what a dog bone is, but I believe it is a quickdraw that captures the biner at each end.

[RuMR]

Peter_Puget said:

Dogbone? What is it?

 

Sorry if somebody has mentioned this earlier in the thread but -

 

I sometimes bring one of these set-ups on a route:

 

Materials:

 

2 ea. ‘biners

1 ea. Spectra sling

1 ea Length of high pressure tubing from auto store slightly shorter than sling.

 

Cut groove for carabiner at both ends of tubing. Thread sling through tubing and secure a ‘biner to each end.

 

Usage:

 

Slide tubing up to carabiner at the clip to bolt end of draw. This stabilizes the ‘biner and enables your reach to be extended simply by holding the bottom of draw. After clipping the bolt the tubing slides down and semi secures bottom ‘biner while freeing the bolt side.

 

Not for everyday use but on routes with bad clips this system works.

 

PP

 

Being a shortshit, I have one draw that i wound about a whole roll of tape around to stiffen it enough so I could reach a bolt from the same stance as everyone else...then i clipped a loose sling on it w/ a biner on the other end so I don't risk "binding" or twisting the setup against the bolt hanger...I started this by climbing routes bolted by that 6'-5" giant doug reed at the new river gorge...

[mattp]

A "dogbone draw" is the standard bartacked draw with the carabiner keeper on the clip end. ChucK's been campaigning against them since the beginning of this site.

[forrest_m]

ok, all this "safety" and "strength" conversation is real interesting and all, but i want to get back to the important stuff, like matching color draws.

 

now i have a motley-ass collection of slings (mostly sewn, but some tied, bought, bootied, and borrowed) i use for alpine and stuff, but i will admit to having a matching set of draws for sport climbing, actually 2 matching sets of 8 draws each. now what's cool about this is that it makes sorting gear at the end of the day real easy: the black petzl draws with spirit biners are mine, the bd dogbones with the gold stitching are dans, the old purple petzl's with the rainbow colored thread bar tacks are..

[Fence_Sitter]

forrest_m said:

ok, all this "safety" and "strength" conversation is real interesting and all, but i want to get back to the important stuff, like matching color draws.

 

now i have a motley-ass collection of slings (mostly sewn, but some tied, bought, bootied, and borrowed) i use for alpine and stuff, but i will admit to having a matching set of draws for sport climbing, actually 2 matching sets of 8 draws each. now what's cool about this is that it makes sorting gear at the end of the day real easy: the black petzl draws with spirit biners are mine, the bd dogbones with the gold stitching are dans, the old purple petzl's with the rainbow colored thread bar tacks are..

 

nail polish

[Sloth_Man]

Not only must your colored biners match the draws, your harness, your rope, and your shoes, but it must match your lycra as well. I can't believe you guys forgot about the lycra!!

 

A person simply can't climb without jiggley ass cheeks and a codpiece showing shiney in some tiger stripe lycra.

[Rodchester]

To me a dog-bone is a sport draw that is stiff with both ends of the draw tight, or fairly tight around the biners. Making it (relatively) stiff/rigid from one end of the first biner all the way through the draw to the end of second biner. The middle part of the runner or draw material is also sewn stiff/rigid.

 

You shouldn't use these with trad gear because with the rope movement it could potentially walk a cam back in, loosen a nut, or wiggle out a hex.

 

But then again, I'm old, fat, and stupid.