robpatterson5 Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Hi, just wondering what people are using as a UL bag in the summer? Maybe some of you are bringing quilts? How are draft? Using quilts on a bivy? I was looking at the WM Highlite and wearing my clothing in it. Really looking for the lightest bag I can be comfortable in. Plan to wear my BMW Cocoon hoody (summer belay jacket) and R1 hoody in it on cold nights. Mainly climb in AB/BC and would like it to be warm enough for routes like the Kain Face on Robson where you are spending some time on a glacier (3/4 Prolite4 w/ foot pad), or take on routes like the E. Ridge of Temple, but again weight is a big question - wondering how light people have had success going? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denalidave Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I love my Marmot Atom +40. 800 fill, just over 1b and packs down very small. This topic just came up a few days ago... UL Sleeping Bags Marmot Atom +40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtveld Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 You'll get more information from this thread I've been very happy with a WM Caribou in a bivy sack for three-season use in the Cascades and Sierras. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
montypiton Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) WM,FF,Marmot,& Montbell all appear to be good bets. I'd guess anything with 800+ down, at a total weight of about a pound will make you happy. When I made my decision (in the '80s), some of these options didn't even exist! I bought what TNF sold at the time as a bicycling bag - "lightrider" - total weight 1lb, continuous baffles so I can shift all the insulation to the topside on cooler nights, plain ripstop shell. It's a close mummy, which allows me to use it to line a 15-degree FF bag for Alaskan/Himalayan type cold. (The FF bag was ordered "extra girth", has continuous baffles which allows me to adjust how much down I sleep on top of, & how much I use for insulation, and it also has a gore-tex shell) The system yields a summer bag good to 40-or-so (I've pushed it much colder), a "shoulder-season" bag, and both bags used one inside the other make an extreme-condition bag. When I say I've pushed the ultralite much colder - in January of 1990, I used it at 21000' on the South Face of Aconcagua, wearing a down jacket on top, and folding the lightrider down to create a double layer around my legs. It worked, I was comfortable, I'd carried the jacket anyway, and this strategy allowed me to make this multi day high altitude climb with a 1-pound sleeping-bag. While I had owned a subzero rated bag in the '70s & early '80s, I found that it was overkill for 80 percent of my use, so when it was stolen on a South American trip, I intentionally replaced it with two lighter bags which allow me to accurately match conditions much more effectively. Over twenty-five years, I've never regretted it. So - any 800+ down-filled close-fitting, continuous-baffled bag that weighs in around a pound and you can get a good deal on is what I'd recommend! Edited November 17, 2009 by montypiton Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydroman Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) In my quest for an ultralight summer bag I started with the WM Highlite 40 degree 16 ounces (exact). Used it for a season or two and it got me through down to mid/upper 20s in reasonable comfort with my WM flight down coat draped over me. At the end of season 2 I decided that I wanted something just slightly higher in the warm/comfort factor and I bought a WM summerlight 32 degree 20 ounces (exact). I found it was the perfect 3 season bag for me. 20 ounces is still plenty light and the extra 4 ounces made enough difference in sleep quality and warmth that it was worth the jump in weight. It was the difference between ‘reasonably warm ’ and ‘warm’. So depending on how hard core you want to go I think either of these bags is worth a serious look. The weights are accurate and temp rating reasonable to what they claim. Quality is outstanding. I should add that I’ve tried quilts and thought them not worth the weight savings. I think you’d be warmer in a 16 oz highlite than any similar weight quilt. The draft factor is just plain problematic, particularly due to the lack of a hood which I think is very helpful. If you are a side sleeper or roll at all I personaly would not even consider a quilt. To be effective they really work best with a back sleeper who doesn’t move much in the night. Edited November 17, 2009 by hydroman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxtrax Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 (edited) I use a Feathered Friends Vireo (http://featheredfriends.com/Picasso/Bags/Specialty.html) which in the 68" length with eVent shell material weighs 17oz and packs down to the size of a small cantaloupe. By itself I've found it good down to ~40 deg and with a belay jacket and Cap 3 base layer around 20 deg. It is tapered more than most mummy bags in the legs/feet to be more efficient but a little wider than usual in the shoulders to accommodate a belay jacket without compressing the loft. The Atom looks like a sweet bag but my experience with a Marmot Hydrogen (same series, just rated to 30 F) was less than stellar. On a 32 F night in the Okanagan I was wearing R1 top and bottom with a fleece wrapped around my feet and another fleece jacket on my upper body and I was still shivering... barely slept half the night. I was also not very impressed by the water resistance of the Quantum fabric - hence my choice to go with eVent in my Vireo. Edited November 17, 2009 by Maxtrax Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I second what MaxTrax says. I have a Feathered Friends Vireo that's even lighter than his (mine has the Schoeller NanoSphere fabric instead of the heavier eVent). I love it. It has been warm enough for me to sleep comfortably at 11,000 feet on Rainier in May (along with my FF hooded Helios jacket). I thought the no zipper design would be a drag but I don't really miss having it. I also have a 20-degree, 2-pound down bag but I rarely use that any more because my Vireo is versatile enough to do well on most of the trips I take. I'd recommend going with either the Schoeller NanoSphere fabric or the Epic shell on the Vireo. My experience with the Nano has been positive, its water resistance is just as good as the Epic and it's lighter & cheaper than eVent. Plus FF stocks them in Nano so you don't have to wait a month for a custom order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatterson5 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Thanks all - I was thinking about the Vireo. Actually what I was thinking would be idea would be one of the first generation of TNF Beeline bags - you know the ones w/o any zipper at all. The WM Highlite seemed like the closest to that. That said I'm seriously considering the Viero now! My main question is how much insulation do you wear ontop? Right now I'm carrying a R1 hoody, hat, windshirt, light wp/b shell, BMW Cocoon Pro Hoody, and a R2 or micropuff vest. I was planning to wear most of that in the highlite - would that be enough camping on a glacier @11,000 feet? I'm thinking Robson; also trips into the bugaboos. Really I'll be using in AB/BC for summer climbs and already have a good 2lb 20degree down bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatterson5 Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 I was also wondering how well the Nano worked with a bit of rain, but also sharp limestone - considering the EPIC or eVent b/c that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pdk Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I'd toss the Mountain Hardwear +45 Phantom into the mix. Had it for a year, used it a lot. I'd recommend it. Weighs 17 ozs, about the same as the rest. Got it on sale, so it was the obvious choice over the others mentioned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 I was also wondering how well the Nano worked with a bit of rain, but also sharp limestone - considering the EPIC or eVent b/c that. Nano has been great in the rain for me. On a 6-day North Cascades trip where it rained every single day my Vireo stayed totally dry, even when I crawled into my tent dripping. The folks at FF can explain the technical details of the fabric to you. My understanding is that the surface of the fabric is textured like a jagged mountain range on the microscopic level. That way there is hardly any surface area for water to adhere to, and moisture just beads up and rolls off. Whatever kind of witchcraft they use, it has worked for me. No fabric is going to hold up to sharp limestone, so if you'll be sleeping in the open you might want to bring a ground sheet of some kind. Better to shred a $20 piece of fabric than a $250 sleeping bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatterson5 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Thanks Fromage that's a big help, I think I'll just be careful with the bag. Could I get you to comment on the clothing I'll be using in the bag and if it would be enough for you to be reasonably comfortable around freezing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromage Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Could I get you to comment on the clothing I'll be using in the bag and if it would be enough for you to be reasonably comfortable around freezing? When it comes to offering a worthless opinion you don't need to ask me twice. Summertime in the North Cascades I typically wear my base layer long underwear in my Vireo, maybe a softshell jacket if it's a little cooler. In winter trips I didn't expect to get the kind of warmth out of the bag that I did. I spent a few nights at the base of the east ridge on Eldorado (about 7,000'+) in winter and with my Volant jacket on I was plenty toasty. Once FF came out with the Hooded Helios Jacket I picked one of those up and use that mostly for 3-season alpine climbing since it's a bit lighter than the Volant. I guided a few early season trips on Rainier with the Vireo/Hooded Helios combo and it worked just fine sleeping at 11,000 feet. Temps were below freezing and I was on top of a yellow foam pad plus the lightest Thermarest. Often what happens is I push the bag down to my waist because the jacket alone is toasty enough. That winter trip on Eldo was not one of those times, though. Hope that helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I have a WM Megalite which is almost a 4 season bag around here. If I was to do it over, I'd get the Caribou. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatterson5 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Thanks - I'm thinking its going to be a Viero, or a MH Phantom. I think what I like most about the Viero is the chance to leave the bivy bag at home on rock routes, even with the chance of some wind, snow/rain/grapel, esp when paired with a small tarp. It sounds like with my summer layers (100 weight fleece hoody, 200 weight vest, and micropuff pullover) that I could reasonably stretch the bag into the 20degree range and expect some degree of comfort. Any suggestions on what length to get? Under the armpits, or so it cinches at the neck? Tomtom, is that becouse of the shell fabric, or the extra fill? I had a WM Ultralite but sold it for the Apache as the shell was just too fragile to be used here without a bivy bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hydroman Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 If you opt for the Phantom over the Verio I'd consider the WM highlite instead. It weights one ounce less, has an ounce more fill (8 ounces vs 7) and is made in US which the MH is not and is rated 10 degrees warmer (35 vs 45). An ounce of down may not sound like much but is actually quite significant. Unless there is something about the design or fit of the Phantom you really prefer, the highlite seems to be a better and warmer bag for slightly less weight. They are both made of ultralight material and it's not likely one is going to take more abuse than the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
layton Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I love my F.F. Vireo with the nano fabric. I added 2 ounces of overfill since I'm a pussy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatterson5 Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 I was thinking the Phantom b/c when it goes on sale it will hit a really good price point, it is a far second choice though - looks really flat. Sounds like the Viero is the top choice - do people tend to bring bivy sacks with it for rock routes? Paired w/ a small tarp seems like it could do that way a bit? Also how high are people sizing it, neck height, shoulder height? I was just checking ebay - a little too heavy for me I'm thinking - but the WT Half Bag can be had new for about $50-army surplus! Still @ that weigt might as well bring the 20degree down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YocumRidge Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I adore my Stephenson's Warmlite -60F to +60F winter bag/summer bag/overbag/bivy/down air mattress/VB liner/BED (all in one at 25-67 ounces) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxtrax Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 It sounds like with my summer layers (100 weight fleece hoody, 200 weight vest, and micropuff pullover) that I could reasonably stretch the bag into the 20degree range and expect some degree of comfort. That sounds quite reasonable. During the summer I use my Vireo with an 11oz down jacket (similar warmth to micropuff p/o) and during the winter I use it with the FF Volant (similar warmth to a DAS parka). My only other layers usually are a thin merino baselayer and/or my R1 hoody. Any suggestions on what length to get? Under the armpits, or so it cinches at the neck? I was originally going to get mine custom made extra short so that it came up to around my solar plexus but after some lengthy discussions I decided to size it over my shoulders so I could cinch it around my neck (and not necessarily have to use it with a jacket). I have been happy with my decision. Sounds like the Viero is the top choice - do people tend to bring bivy sacks with it for rock routes? Paired w/ a small tarp seems like it could do that way a bit? On rock routes I haven't brought a bivy sack, although my pack comes up to my waist when empty and I have used it as a sort of half bivy sack on one occasion. In the Olympics I bring an Integral Designs sil poncho/tarp but haven't had to use it yet. The only time I have used a bivy sack with my Vireo so far was on Rainier this spring and it was really more to deal with the forecasted high winds than anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dane Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 I have a Vireo as well. Nice bag and works well for a lwt bivy combo here in the Cascades. Mine is xl long so over the head when required. Done Robson and Temple and don't think I would use the Vario on either if I planned a bivy. Robson is colder and a longer effort than Temple. I sleep cold there simply because of the added effort the trip requires. E Ridge of Temple is generally done in a day. So if you planned on 2 days for Temple a Vario would/might be a good choice in stellar weather but I would want all my clothes (and the Vario is a tight bag..no hood) plus a good bivy bag. At that point might as well bring a real bag along..less clothes and be more comfortable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 Tomtom, is that becouse of the shell fabric, or the extra fill? I had a WM Ultralite but sold it for the Apache as the shell was just too fragile to be used here without a bivy bag. The Caribou is a little lighter and smaller, so it would work as a summer bag for me. The Megalite has been more than adequate in warmth. My current lightweight system is a 3/4 Ridgerest, Megalite, and BD Winter Bivy. I'm an 'active' sidesleeper, so the bivy takes the abuse. YMMV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Did you decide on a bag, robpatterson? Interested in what you decide on... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robpatterson5 Posted December 2, 2009 Author Share Posted December 2, 2009 Still trying to. I need to go to MEC to take a look at the Highlite but I'm thinking a Verio in Nano or eVent and maybe an oz or two extra fill. What are you thinking? I'm also looking at Montbell ect for a good price on one of their lite bags. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stever Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 I really like the idea behind the verio, combined with a belay jacket. I may go that route... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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