gzack Posted August 22, 2015 Posted August 22, 2015 Thanks Joe, good info and thanks for the opinion on SS vs. Ti. Speaking of checking the fixed pro out there, I inspected the pins on the first pitch of Blownout yesterday. The upper two seem solid and had a nice ring to them right off the bat. The first pin, however, was able to be driven in another 1/2", and never started to ring, probably because it is in some broken rock. Consider it questionable. I also was able to remove the fixed alien (between the first and second pins) and free up a .3 cam placement there. Quote
JosephH Posted August 22, 2015 Posted August 22, 2015 I inspected the pins on the first pitch of Blownout yesterday. Good on you. The vast majority are bomb and even if one does come loose it will only need to be reset. But I still have what's left of Middendorf's spare pin rack and some others and you're welcome to it all if you're going to do more of it and run across the odd instance a reset doesn't work and a swap needs to be done. Quote
mksportn Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I agree with that Titanium bolts are the best case for sure. However, I'm not convinced the extra cost is worth the price out here. I've pulled about 6-8 SS 5-piece bolts out this past year (all were placed in bad locations/rock, so we moved them), and not one of them had a spec of corrosion on them. At least two of them were most likely 10+ years old. Developers/rebolters that I am in contact with across the US have had no issues with SS in non-coastal areas, wet or not. The general consensus is that SS bolts will last over 100 years easily in non-coastal areas. So I don't think we should have any issues out here. The nice thing about the 5-piece SS bolts is that you can unscrew them, check for rust, and then screw them back in and they are still good to go. That's why I prefer SS 5-pieces when possible. We (meaning the 4-6 guys I work with on replacing bolts) have replaced somewhere between 250-300 bolts this past year at Broughton's, French's, Ozone, etc, and the amount of corrosion on non-SS bolts has been terrifying in some cases. But again, no sign of corrosion on any of the SS bolts I've checked. As far as glue in bolts go, we have been using them to replace bolts in spots that are north facing, and/or stay wet longer than normal (ie. the road face climbs at French's Dome.) But like you said, it takes longer, and requires more attention and know how than does placing wedge or 5-piece bolts. Jim Titt makes great bolts, and I'm considering starting to use them for my personal route developing as well. I'd personally recommend using SS 5-piece bolts out at beacon, that way they can be checked, and removed when the time does come in the way distant future. Quote
gzack Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 Thanks for the offer of access to the pin inventory Joe. I'm still not sure where I stand in the whole debate of what to do when a crucial pin has gone bad though (new pin, or much more permanent SS b@%# ?). BTW, what is that pin at the crux of the third pitch of Warriors (in the short dihedral) ? I forgot my hammer today, and I believe it is a knifeblade? Really rusty too. Did you say that nearly all the old knifeblades out there were worthless? With regards to Micah's discussion on the longevity of SS: I work in the water-well industry, and every so often we have to pull a 20-30 year old pump out of the bottom of a well. The 1" galvanized water pipe that runs from it to the surface (80-400' typically), can be horribly rusted and pitted (not just due to galvanic reactions where it runs into the SS pump), while the SS of the pump body looks almost new (sometimes some minor grey-ish patina). Much of this steel is just thin panels around the outside of the pump, too. Granted, I can't say what grade of SS it is, and meteoric water is usually more acidic and richer in dissolved oxygen than ground water, but seeing the contrast between the SS and non-SS in the same environment (constantly submerged) is eye-opening. Disclaimer: I'm not a metallurgist. Quote
JosephH Posted August 23, 2015 Posted August 23, 2015 I agree with that Titanium bolts are the best case for sure. However, I'm not convinced the extra cost is worth the price out here. I've pulled about 6-8 SS 5-piece bolts out this past year (all were placed in bad locations/rock, so we moved them), and not one of them had a spec of corrosion on them. At least two of them were most likely 10+ years old. ... I'd personally recommend using SS 5-piece bolts out at beacon, that way they can be checked, and removed when the time does come in the way distant future. Good to hear some real [local] SS observations. The SS five pieces might be more amenable to removing and reinstalling, the plated ones sure aren't. I'd still probably go for glue-ins to skip all the moving parts and be done with it, but to each his own. Thanks for the offer of access to the pin inventory Joe. I'm still not sure where I stand in the whole debate of what to do when a crucial pin has gone bad though (new pin, or much more permanent SS b@%# ?). Gotta make your own call there, but I personally wouldn't want to see that Blownout's p1 pin swapped for a bolt. I suspect if pins like that go to bolts then over time basically every pin that loosens will end up a bolt and, once the pins are gone, retrobolting to make climbs 'safe' or 'safer' will surely be close behind. Beacon without pins? That would totally suck and from my perspective it boils down to respecting Beacon's history and traditions or not. BTW, what is that pin at the crux of the third pitch of Warriors (in the short dihedral) ? I forgot my hammer today, and I believe it is a knifeblade? Really rusty too. Did you say that nearly all the old knifeblades out there were worthless? The p1 pin off the ground and p4 angle on YW are basically marginal and both funked with a minimal flick of the wrist, but at least there's pro around the p4 angle so I reset it as well as it could be. The p1 pin I also reset as good as could be, but it likely sucks again at by this point. Given the [unfortunate] sport character of that pitch I'd probably just replace it with a bolt if anyone was nervous about it. No, I said short pins of any type were bad and that a couple of the knifeblades were bad. In general, there's not enough 'meat' on the blades for super longevity so I'd recommend Bugs whenever possible. When I checked those two p3 dihedral pins they were beyond solid and didn't budge a fraction of a millimeter, both sounded good as well. I think the drainage through there is pretty good though it would be good for someone to check them all again given it's been eight years. Quote
ivan Posted August 27, 2015 Posted August 27, 2015 1/9/2015 - day #1 - couldn't let a full week of january go by w/o putting in an appearance - thanks kevbone, absentee landlord-ye-be, for getting me on the kick years ago of noting what was worth NOT bitching about over the course of the beatard year did 3 solo laps last january, but 1's plenty enough for me a year later - the classic approach through the lulls n' roars of the gorge - plenty windless at the lot though, barely w2 conditions, though still plenty chilly - took a dump n' renewed me year pass in 4 minutes, then galloped off for the main show - cold n' darkish but good enough and done in a saintly way, me pious n' piss skert in places, but nothing to really worry about a long rotation home - holy shit i wish the whole year could be so balmy 1/21 - day 2 - VICTORY!!! not that i ever need an excuse to get me some bacon, but today i was compelled to put in an appearance at the skamania court house - larry the tool (you know, the new one who was a lot like the old one?) saw fit to write me a 138$ ticket last november for getting back to the devil an hour after dusk, as apparently the current regime wants to say that's the same as bivying or doing a midnight ascent - don't know what the new feller was all butt hurt over, maybe it was just the shame of having to be bailed out of a bad spot last summer after his incompetence made itself plain before the very people he aspires to lord it over? anyhow, i asked for my day in court and had a capital time today seeing justice in action - took a half day off and got good enough weather for a quick stop at beacon- gabbed w/ old man jeff n' coastie adam about the gubimint - they then were off to see what those rat bastards have been up to over on the what-have-you lately - i romped down to the base for a solo in street shoes n' shirt n' tie up the first half of the first pitch - then raced back up to the lot and hopped into the devil and bounded on in to stevenson in time to take my seat the courthouse reminds me a bit of church - same sad old faces all around - same smell of worn wood and the same deep solemnity suffused through the assembly - the judge was a jovial looking chap at least sat on the group W bench awhile reading my national geographic and grinning to hear all the cases of my fellows next to me who'd gotten the big dickie from the beacon man since thanksgiving - it was a mort of my fellow 'mericans, and they mostly got their fines reduced and a friendly reminder to Render on to Ceasar What Is.. then it was my turn to take the big oath and do my song and dance - i was delighted to see the Man With The Robe quickly warming to my argument - a decade of getting back to lot after dark with nary a ticket - the custom quite clear: pay yer 10 clams if yer bivying on the rock or doing a moon-light ascent, but never this nickel and dime "yer back 10 minutes after dusk" bullshit i'm paraphrasing for the purpose of comedy i concede, but the Man in Black basically said repeatedly: "i get it, i get it, the bastards out there at beacon are little bitches, but i can't tell them what to do - all i can do is throw out their tickets, which is what i'm going to do" - SCORE! and then the best line of all: "have you posted about this on cascade climbers? i hear that's a good place to discuss these issues" so anyhow that's how the ball bounced - with a healthy reaffirmation for yer friend and humble narrator as to the virtue of our montesquien machine of government - one hand wacks on the other, eh? celebrated the greatest civil rights victory of our modern age by gulping down a pabst and sprinting up the trail in the dusk, taking a slight detour into the weeds after my hat got blown off my head at the top of uprising - then it was back to the big city and a union meeting in closing, if there's anythign serious to discuss here, what think you to a nocturnal version of the annual 30$ park pass? i'd easily get 30$ of night climbing in each year, plus be protected against this penny-ante crap 1/25 - day 3 - a day to die for - the circle complete - beacon set to close up shop for a mighty long season but fate vouch-safed to chuck this plum in a poor fools lap before it could sling off into spring 'twas a week for settling old scores - my court-date a comely kick-off, it was time to finish the climb adam and i had started that ill-omened late autumn day - we'd bailed from 2 pitches up, having to leave a tangle of biners and webbing to make the 5 lbj-era bolts up there work - hate to let a year go by w/o climbing jensens, and lordy didn't the stars align to reclaim the gear and get lit like a lord in doing so first it was me n' adam on the list - then it was me n' adam n' goeff - it grew then to the 3 of us n' bryan too, then finally even fucking mike was coming out of his homo-biking hermitage to have at it w/ o - a 5-spot for fortune n' fleeting greatness started poorly enough - me n' mike sitting at the b.k. for a good bit waiting for the assembly of demi-gods to gaggle together - eventually bryan and goeff showed a half hour late but i didn't mind - heavy fog in camas but frequently giant flocks of geese would go raging by above, gaudy as ghosts, gallumping off north - we gave adam 3 minutes to arrive then called to discover he was still snoozing in bed - damn, my cheap oregon smokes were in danger (and shit, i never did give that boy his 5-spot! remind me when next we meet, hear?) sunny on the south side but a bit of a breeze - quite the clown-fucking convention we had to contend with - eventually we got it settled - geoff lead p1 whle mike belays and bryan and i get to guzzle beer and recollect it as recreation geoff got his redemption for shitting between the sheets last month in a steel breeze - mike followed then bryan - adam was there by then, and goeff chucked down the other end of a 70 as bryan was climbing so i could send up another line and the li'l dawg - bryan cast off on p2 as i started jugging and i had a penthouse view of him slip-slidign away on the awful slippery lichenated stone - i had some gut-chuckles w/ the boys n' a butt too as we buttoned-up against the breeze, then bryan was there and i went on up to him to help out in getting An Anchor For a Modern Era bryan was over his dream of repeating a free-ascent of the money pitch and suddenly i found myself delighted to get that pithy peach - adam was still on the ground, connected to us w/ a 70 - geoff came up on the new anchor as i launched into the incredible start that is jensen's 3rd pitch just starting the 11a crack on a blind placement time went by - jim and bill arrived below - lichen populated my eye-balls - the laughable # of 3s, 4s, n' 5s i had got whittled away and then i was there - bryan followed, panting in the odd hibernal-heat as he made the pillar-top - he rested and sorted as geoff followed then was off lickety-split, ending up aiding plenty of the pitch mike jugged up in a jiffy n' got a spiffy pano need to put a decent anchor in the lower nothc of jensens as i was a wee bit unhappy in my pee-pee places to see what had been holding me from flying through the sky down to the sea - an ocean of ants, the fould reek of formic acid exploding on the scene - frogs creek n' croaking, the whole world in wonder at the folly of winter with her guard down, panties askew and napping suddenly we were all at the railing w/ jim n' hogsheads of tourons trundlign up down and all around - butts n' beers n' bullshitting and a fine heady-brew of homo sapien comraderie - the parking lot in the dying lot - pbrs n' pleasant conversation as adam went down to fetch the what have yous, then we set our sights west and went back to being ordinary men poor adam - he ripped 50 feet of poision oak cables out of lay lady lay and the vicinty w/ not even gloves on his hands - he'll be in intensive care till next christmas i fear 1/26 - day IV for the annum - 2nd corner lap of this crisp season too - a warm night of good vibes after yesterdays jensens gang-bang - peanut noodles n' kids games, tv on the couch and a soft slink off to slumber covered in cushions monday off for grading but i'd binged and purged friday night to get that dispatched - a sound sleep-in after somnambulating upstairs this side of dawn - book reading in the bright fog outside my bedroom window - the simple life of simon peg sounded n' sorted out before i need to take the first dump of the day bacon w/ the kids, math-book bound though they were - a bit of wine n' honey and off i was down the sacred highway - beacon not near so balmy as so soon ago - a filtered light came greyly through the high cloud murk, the airs light and limp and heavyish with dampness a couple on the corner already but i breezed by at tree ledge - read an old translation of beowulf on the party ledge and nursed a beer, then up and out via the ridge - more beer n' book by the pin in the last bit of direct sun that could be brought to bare there - croc-shod i clamber up to the trail and the site of former students, their names not recollected till i was several switchbacks further down the long binge home w/ a 3-buck hat pulled low down where my eyes glim - the sun's near set and i sweat not to see the last part of this annual campaign ably dispatched 1/29 - day 5 - wholly shiite muslims, 5 days of fine beacon climbing in the king-of-winter and 2 more days left in the month n' fine weather forecast for each'o'them too! - my 3rd solo lap of the year beautiful balmy thursday - the sun bright through the window of my classroom trailer - had no thought of beacon but by noon the desire-burn was bright - an annual bit of adjudicating upon the appeals of the absent in the afternoon, then that dispensed with, a desperate rage down the road into the sudden howling winds of the gorge - where did that wicked wind come from? it was so sweet before - like another fall of man, the ledger long unbalanced, the measure made right with the meat thrown against the wall two ladies rambling up the trail as i lounged down after a frenzy of dressing n' dandyning meself up decent for the big blow in the parking lot - 2 more fellows earning the Ascent of the Day on young warriors, deep in shadow and bounding up unabashedly despite it the breathe of the lord upon me - only the penitent man will pass - my doom diverted for now, i made my way up the windy hill and rumbled on down soon thereafter, my soul done up and ready for glory to the heavenly tune of tom waits' "come on up to the house" my quotidian quote n' a personal favorite, a t.j. classic: "calamity was our best physician" 1/30 - day VI (holy fawk, did i really just hear the nfl's throwing in the fucking towel on latin numerals?!? jesus fucking fuck fuck!) a rare auold junuary, the right kind really - 1 more day of winter afore the winter avalanches in n' shuts the cliffs for the fornication of the falcons - mike's after 3 - beers and bullshit'n on the way in - breezy for sure, but not batshit-so adam in the lot - we ambulate to the base in the big wind and Walk Around the Issues who can't love this life, it passes so even as you piss away the dregs of yesterday? closing day 2015 - 7th day out at beacon this year - foggy and chilly-chilly at home in the dawn, lately dusted off from the couch - the boys at the b.k. soon thereafter - into the gorge the wind gathers wicked force - cruising w/ cold fingers, we fumble on up the rest the corner ducking and dodging through the plaid-man the rest of the day rightly desposed, beer drinking and fucking around on the sunny side where the wind ramped up beyond all expectations and so the sun sets on the southside - we shall see it soon enough i wager 2/22 - Dia VIII - sunny sunday - predictions for Big Wind but it wasn't really there - a weekend w/ the brudder n' family big n' small on saturday, also biking by the shrieking birds w/ the chilluns - a sound sleep-in - bacon n' eggs n' toast n' streaming sun through the windows - my beer gut hated upon by my helpless forebears the plan was for a solo of pitch 1 of THE WORLD FAMOUS STONE SOUP - binged n' purged on the big orbit in after noon - racked up in the baby breeze - big flakes down the past few months, the bric'a'brac of busted trees all around - scooted up to the pin n' remembered rather drunkenly you need a pretty-durn big cam just there that i didna have, so after a come-to-jeebus session of thrashing around on untrustworhty shite i rapped off that n' a bit of booty, cleaning as i went allright, looks like i have a reason for living come monday afternoon roamed around the base abit w/ friendly pbr's n' saw steve up high on the spring routes, n' fir-krissakes, how's that good-ole'boy always manage to be climbing w/ a girl? 2/23 - 9th bite of bacon for 2015 so far - darted out soon after the final school bell to rescue my bail gear on stone soup from yday - a much easier pitch when you have the proper gear about 30 minutes from ground to the 1st anchor - the 2nd pin came out in my finger-tips but it never was all that necessary - suuuuure hope the same knifeblades on pitch 4 are in better shape this season - need to actually carry a hammer next time i ramble on up there... 3/4 - day 10 - took the day off to do some union agitating but it abated soon after noon - winged it out to beacon and got another solo lap on stone soup in despite my snot-filled senses wrecking my equilibriums full spring in the fucking first week of march, the world flipped on it's frack'n vernal maidenhead Beware the Ides - day 11 - beware indeed for it was a day of woe stacked on woe - started amiably enough, a good sleep-in to the dull roar of rain outside the open windows (what a joy of summer to have come so soon) - met geoff at 9, gusts of raining galling the rain-wracked parking lot - our plan was siege tactics, always dry despite the worst the weather can offer geoff got lap 1 and misfortune 1 of the day for me was some odd bit of grit creeping in my open eye and progressively offending me w/ every passing minute - within 2 hours i was almost blind - got my lap in and even moved onto the other unnamed wonder under the roof (starts on the headspace bolt but goes right thereafter) before the combination of continuous crying and sketchy hooking sent me home geoff drove the red devil to camas at least, and by then the predicted wind had whipped up something fierce, him dodging downed trees n' sizzling power lines the whole way back, me keening n' cursing my old-skewl god's condemnation - my leg back to home was classic - one eyed, finger-pushing the offending orb into its socket to gain its pain-surrender, swerving out of the way of every wind-blown, coursing sprig of cedar, ignorant n' uncaring of the 3rd dimension - woe #2 on the arrival, the big breeze succeeding in blowing down 2 of my 4 backyard fences, to much horror to handle n' for certain the problem of the future - the rest of the day couch-bound n' crest-fallen, fresh-showered n' well sodden... 5/3 - day 12 - off my pace for the year - too busy doing other cool things - a trip to tower rock - union agitation on an increasingly grand scale - a week in red rocks and city of rocks today was stone soup - went extremely smoothly - bryan did p2, which i still haven't led since hurting myself on it last year - i was sorta dreading p5, with all of its fixed funky knifeblades, but they all held, so i reckon it's all good? anybody know what's going w/ the evergreens in the gorge? am i crazy or does damn near every pine near beacon show serious blight right now? tons of brown on most of the trees for miles - looks likely to burn like mad this summer if it continues. 5/9 - day 13 - way off my pace from last year weeks on end it seems union bidness dominating my thoughts - so sad, prime weather for poaching saturday at noon - the revenge rolls into a sun-soaked parking lot as i make parley w/ long-passed students n side climbing - love all dem new routes - we do one n' enjoy life - a foolish rap back down - jim gib-jabbering soon therafter - a quick run up the alpine route and we top-route the shit 'round stone soup the summer soon upon us - what fool sets this sorta shit aside? 6/11 - day 14 - seniors on the wing, graduation goes off tomorrow - an easy day of dispensing w/ the care-taker tasks before summer - practice walking w/ a pack of restless fools out to beacon for the big what-have-you - pulled in for some soloing-aiding on the soup aforehand - salvaged me some russki steel on the first pin - nastia says she's american, but her 'biner color-scheme is still solidly russki sudden politicking w/ suds out in godfirsaken stevenson - a good bit of the brethern assembled - lords know what will lay as a result, but let's not worry about that on the cusp of summer - a long orbit back, w/ a big semi-wreck sending my addled self of a disastrous detour ah, the simple time of summer is soon 7/15 - day 15 - opening day 2015 - hangover at dawn - plans for a big trip to tower rock so a 6 a.m. ascent it was - can't remember a thing about it but i'm sure it was great 7/21 - day 16 - back after a long trip to tower rock, bill n' i nonetheless rallied the morning after to do a corner lap in the wondrous cool of the mid-morning - clouds and breeze - a pair of bros pleasant enough to let us pass at the base - goddamn i still haven't figured out a way to start p2 w/o fucking up my shins and scaring shit out of myself - hidden treats - a lengthy yack-yack at the ledge - then home to prepare for the arrival of the family after a month n' a half away... bootied 2 phat steel biners off the base of p2 - might could make a present back of them if the feller who left them wants them n' understands it was either going to be me or the next party through to claim them as a prize 8/20 - day 17 - dod's w/ kenny, me rather rusty after a month of a whole lotta not climbing - practically a full division of armor heading west over the rail-head, a site i'd long wished to behold - christ, is summer so near deceased? 8/26 - day 18 - solo lap in the afternoon, moonlight climb at night - shared the stone w/ 2 lovely shielas on the first round (we bootied your nut if'n you want it back) n' the night round was w/ the silverman crowd - hooting n' hollering down on the dock w/ a drunken dave n' a krunked kenny - gripped drive home as the goddamn check engine light came back on Quote
ivan Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 1/9/2015 - day #1 - couldn't let a full week of january go by w/o putting in an appearance - thanks kevbone, absentee landlord-ye-be, for getting me on the kick years ago of noting what was worth NOT bitching about over the course of the beatard year did 3 solo laps last january, but 1's plenty enough for me a year later - the classic approach through the lulls n' roars of the gorge - plenty windless at the lot though, barely w2 conditions, though still plenty chilly - took a dump n' renewed me year pass in 4 minutes, then galloped off for the main show - cold n' darkish but good enough and done in a saintly way, me pious n' piss skert in places, but nothing to really worry about a long rotation home - holy shit i wish the whole year could be so balmy 1/21 - day 2 - VICTORY!!! not that i ever need an excuse to get me some bacon, but today i was compelled to put in an appearance at the skamania court house - larry the tool (you know, the new one who was a lot like the old one?) saw fit to write me a 138$ ticket last november for getting back to the devil an hour after dusk, as apparently the current regime wants to say that's the same as bivying or doing a midnight ascent - don't know what the new feller was all butt hurt over, maybe it was just the shame of having to be bailed out of a bad spot last summer after his incompetence made itself plain before the very people he aspires to lord it over? anyhow, i asked for my day in court and had a capital time today seeing justice in action - took a half day off and got good enough weather for a quick stop at beacon- gabbed w/ old man jeff n' coastie adam about the gubimint - they then were off to see what those rat bastards have been up to over on the what-have-you lately - i romped down to the base for a solo in street shoes n' shirt n' tie up the first half of the first pitch - then raced back up to the lot and hopped into the devil and bounded on in to stevenson in time to take my seat the courthouse reminds me a bit of church - same sad old faces all around - same smell of worn wood and the same deep solemnity suffused through the assembly - the judge was a jovial looking chap at least sat on the group W bench awhile reading my national geographic and grinning to hear all the cases of my fellows next to me who'd gotten the big dickie from the beacon man since thanksgiving - it was a mort of my fellow 'mericans, and they mostly got their fines reduced and a friendly reminder to Render on to Ceasar What Is.. then it was my turn to take the big oath and do my song and dance - i was delighted to see the Man With The Robe quickly warming to my argument - a decade of getting back to lot after dark with nary a ticket - the custom quite clear: pay yer 10 clams if yer bivying on the rock or doing a moon-light ascent, but never this nickel and dime "yer back 10 minutes after dusk" bullshit i'm paraphrasing for the purpose of comedy i concede, but the Man in Black basically said repeatedly: "i get it, i get it, the bastards out there at beacon are little bitches, but i can't tell them what to do - all i can do is throw out their tickets, which is what i'm going to do" - SCORE! and then the best line of all: "have you posted about this on cascade climbers? i hear that's a good place to discuss these issues" so anyhow that's how the ball bounced - with a healthy reaffirmation for yer friend and humble narrator as to the virtue of our montesquien machine of government - one hand wacks on the other, eh? celebrated the greatest civil rights victory of our modern age by gulping down a pabst and sprinting up the trail in the dusk, taking a slight detour into the weeds after my hat got blown off my head at the top of uprising - then it was back to the big city and a union meeting in closing, if there's anythign serious to discuss here, what think you to a nocturnal version of the annual 30$ park pass? i'd easily get 30$ of night climbing in each year, plus be protected against this penny-ante crap 1/25 - day 3 - a day to die for - the circle complete - beacon set to close up shop for a mighty long season but fate vouch-safed to chuck this plum in a poor fools lap before it could sling off into spring 'twas a week for settling old scores - my court-date a comely kick-off, it was time to finish the climb adam and i had started that ill-omened late autumn day - we'd bailed from 2 pitches up, having to leave a tangle of biners and webbing to make the 5 lbj-era bolts up there work - hate to let a year go by w/o climbing jensens, and lordy didn't the stars align to reclaim the gear and get lit like a lord in doing so first it was me n' adam on the list - then it was me n' adam n' goeff - it grew then to the 3 of us n' bryan too, then finally even fucking mike was coming out of his homo-biking hermitage to have at it w/ o - a 5-spot for fortune n' fleeting greatness started poorly enough - me n' mike sitting at the b.k. for a good bit waiting for the assembly of demi-gods to gaggle together - eventually bryan and goeff showed a half hour late but i didn't mind - heavy fog in camas but frequently giant flocks of geese would go raging by above, gaudy as ghosts, gallumping off north - we gave adam 3 minutes to arrive then called to discover he was still snoozing in bed - damn, my cheap oregon smokes were in danger (and shit, i never did give that boy his 5-spot! remind me when next we meet, hear?) sunny on the south side but a bit of a breeze - quite the clown-fucking convention we had to contend with - eventually we got it settled - geoff lead p1 whle mike belays and bryan and i get to guzzle beer and recollect it as recreation geoff got his redemption for shitting between the sheets last month in a steel breeze - mike followed then bryan - adam was there by then, and goeff chucked down the other end of a 70 as bryan was climbing so i could send up another line and the li'l dawg - bryan cast off on p2 as i started jugging and i had a penthouse view of him slip-slidign away on the awful slippery lichenated stone - i had some gut-chuckles w/ the boys n' a butt too as we buttoned-up against the breeze, then bryan was there and i went on up to him to help out in getting An Anchor For a Modern Era bryan was over his dream of repeating a free-ascent of the money pitch and suddenly i found myself delighted to get that pithy peach - adam was still on the ground, connected to us w/ a 70 - geoff came up on the new anchor as i launched into the incredible start that is jensen's 3rd pitch just starting the 11a crack on a blind placement time went by - jim and bill arrived below - lichen populated my eye-balls - the laughable # of 3s, 4s, n' 5s i had got whittled away and then i was there - bryan followed, panting in the odd hibernal-heat as he made the pillar-top - he rested and sorted as geoff followed then was off lickety-split, ending up aiding plenty of the pitch mike jugged up in a jiffy n' got a spiffy pano need to put a decent anchor in the lower nothc of jensens as i was a wee bit unhappy in my pee-pee places to see what had been holding me from flying through the sky down to the sea - an ocean of ants, the fould reek of formic acid exploding on the scene - frogs creek n' croaking, the whole world in wonder at the folly of winter with her guard down, panties askew and napping suddenly we were all at the railing w/ jim n' hogsheads of tourons trundlign up down and all around - butts n' beers n' bullshitting and a fine heady-brew of homo sapien comraderie - the parking lot in the dying lot - pbrs n' pleasant conversation as adam went down to fetch the what have yous, then we set our sights west and went back to being ordinary men poor adam - he ripped 50 feet of poision oak cables out of lay lady lay and the vicinty w/ not even gloves on his hands - he'll be in intensive care till next christmas i fear 1/26 - day IV for the annum - 2nd corner lap of this crisp season too - a warm night of good vibes after yesterdays jensens gang-bang - peanut noodles n' kids games, tv on the couch and a soft slink off to slumber covered in cushions monday off for grading but i'd binged and purged friday night to get that dispatched - a sound sleep-in after somnambulating upstairs this side of dawn - book reading in the bright fog outside my bedroom window - the simple life of simon peg sounded n' sorted out before i need to take the first dump of the day bacon w/ the kids, math-book bound though they were - a bit of wine n' honey and off i was down the sacred highway - beacon not near so balmy as so soon ago - a filtered light came greyly through the high cloud murk, the airs light and limp and heavyish with dampness a couple on the corner already but i breezed by at tree ledge - read an old translation of beowulf on the party ledge and nursed a beer, then up and out via the ridge - more beer n' book by the pin in the last bit of direct sun that could be brought to bare there - croc-shod i clamber up to the trail and the site of former students, their names not recollected till i was several switchbacks further down the long binge home w/ a 3-buck hat pulled low down where my eyes glim - the sun's near set and i sweat not to see the last part of this annual campaign ably dispatched 1/29 - day 5 - wholly shiite muslims, 5 days of fine beacon climbing in the king-of-winter and 2 more days left in the month n' fine weather forecast for each'o'them too! - my 3rd solo lap of the year beautiful balmy thursday - the sun bright through the window of my classroom trailer - had no thought of beacon but by noon the desire-burn was bright - an annual bit of adjudicating upon the appeals of the absent in the afternoon, then that dispensed with, a desperate rage down the road into the sudden howling winds of the gorge - where did that wicked wind come from? it was so sweet before - like another fall of man, the ledger long unbalanced, the measure made right with the meat thrown against the wall two ladies rambling up the trail as i lounged down after a frenzy of dressing n' dandyning meself up decent for the big blow in the parking lot - 2 more fellows earning the Ascent of the Day on young warriors, deep in shadow and bounding up unabashedly despite it the breathe of the lord upon me - only the penitent man will pass - my doom diverted for now, i made my way up the windy hill and rumbled on down soon thereafter, my soul done up and ready for glory to the heavenly tune of tom waits' "come on up to the house" my quotidian quote n' a personal favorite, a t.j. classic: "calamity was our best physician" 1/30 - day VI (holy fawk, did i really just hear the nfl's throwing in the fucking towel on latin numerals?!? jesus fucking fuck fuck!) a rare auold junuary, the right kind really - 1 more day of winter afore the winter avalanches in n' shuts the cliffs for the fornication of the falcons - mike's after 3 - beers and bullshit'n on the way in - breezy for sure, but not batshit-so adam in the lot - we ambulate to the base in the big wind and Walk Around the Issues who can't love this life, it passes so even as you piss away the dregs of yesterday? closing day 2015 - 7th day out at beacon this year - foggy and chilly-chilly at home in the dawn, lately dusted off from the couch - the boys at the b.k. soon thereafter - into the gorge the wind gathers wicked force - cruising w/ cold fingers, we fumble on up the rest the corner ducking and dodging through the plaid-man the rest of the day rightly desposed, beer drinking and fucking around on the sunny side where the wind ramped up beyond all expectations and so the sun sets on the southside - we shall see it soon enough i wager 2/22 - Dia VIII - sunny sunday - predictions for Big Wind but it wasn't really there - a weekend w/ the brudder n' family big n' small on saturday, also biking by the shrieking birds w/ the chilluns - a sound sleep-in - bacon n' eggs n' toast n' streaming sun through the windows - my beer gut hated upon by my helpless forebears the plan was for a solo of pitch 1 of THE WORLD FAMOUS STONE SOUP - binged n' purged on the big orbit in after noon - racked up in the baby breeze - big flakes down the past few months, the bric'a'brac of busted trees all around - scooted up to the pin n' remembered rather drunkenly you need a pretty-durn big cam just there that i didna have, so after a come-to-jeebus session of thrashing around on untrustworhty shite i rapped off that n' a bit of booty, cleaning as i went allright, looks like i have a reason for living come monday afternoon roamed around the base abit w/ friendly pbr's n' saw steve up high on the spring routes, n' fir-krissakes, how's that good-ole'boy always manage to be climbing w/ a girl? 2/23 - 9th bite of bacon for 2015 so far - darted out soon after the final school bell to rescue my bail gear on stone soup from yday - a much easier pitch when you have the proper gear about 30 minutes from ground to the 1st anchor - the 2nd pin came out in my finger-tips but it never was all that necessary - suuuuure hope the same knifeblades on pitch 4 are in better shape this season - need to actually carry a hammer next time i ramble on up there... 3/4 - day 10 - took the day off to do some union agitating but it abated soon after noon - winged it out to beacon and got another solo lap on stone soup in despite my snot-filled senses wrecking my equilibriums full spring in the fucking first week of march, the world flipped on it's frack'n vernal maidenhead Beware the Ides - day 11 - beware indeed for it was a day of woe stacked on woe - started amiably enough, a good sleep-in to the dull roar of rain outside the open windows (what a joy of summer to have come so soon) - met geoff at 9, gusts of raining galling the rain-wracked parking lot - our plan was siege tactics, always dry despite the worst the weather can offer geoff got lap 1 and misfortune 1 of the day for me was some odd bit of grit creeping in my open eye and progressively offending me w/ every passing minute - within 2 hours i was almost blind - got my lap in and even moved onto the other unnamed wonder under the roof (starts on the headspace bolt but goes right thereafter) before the combination of continuous crying and sketchy hooking sent me home geoff drove the red devil to camas at least, and by then the predicted wind had whipped up something fierce, him dodging downed trees n' sizzling power lines the whole way back, me keening n' cursing my old-skewl god's condemnation - my leg back to home was classic - one eyed, finger-pushing the offending orb into its socket to gain its pain-surrender, swerving out of the way of every wind-blown, coursing sprig of cedar, ignorant n' uncaring of the 3rd dimension - woe #2 on the arrival, the big breeze succeeding in blowing down 2 of my 4 backyard fences, to much horror to handle n' for certain the problem of the future - the rest of the day couch-bound n' crest-fallen, fresh-showered n' well sodden... 5/3 - day 12 - off my pace for the year - too busy doing other cool things - a trip to tower rock - union agitation on an increasingly grand scale - a week in red rocks and city of rocks today was stone soup - went extremely smoothly - bryan did p2, which i still haven't led since hurting myself on it last year - i was sorta dreading p5, with all of its fixed funky knifeblades, but they all held, so i reckon it's all good? anybody know what's going w/ the evergreens in the gorge? am i crazy or does damn near every pine near beacon show serious blight right now? tons of brown on most of the trees for miles - looks likely to burn like mad this summer if it continues. 5/9 - day 13 - way off my pace from last year weeks on end it seems union bidness dominating my thoughts - so sad, prime weather for poaching saturday at noon - the revenge rolls into a sun-soaked parking lot as i make parley w/ long-passed students n side climbing - love all dem new routes - we do one n' enjoy life - a foolish rap back down - jim gib-jabbering soon therafter - a quick run up the alpine route and we top-route the shit 'round stone soup the summer soon upon us - what fool sets this sorta shit aside? 6/11 - day 14 - seniors on the wing, graduation goes off tomorrow - an easy day of dispensing w/ the care-taker tasks before summer - practice walking w/ a pack of restless fools out to beacon for the big what-have-you - pulled in for some soloing-aiding on the soup aforehand - salvaged me some russki steel on the first pin - nastia says she's american, but her 'biner color-scheme is still solidly russki sudden politicking w/ suds out in godfirsaken stevenson - a good bit of the brethern assembled - lords know what will lay as a result, but let's not worry about that on the cusp of summer - a long orbit back, w/ a big semi-wreck sending my addled self of a disastrous detour ah, the simple time of summer is soon 7/15 - day 15 - opening day 2015 - hangover at dawn - plans for a big trip to tower rock so a 6 a.m. ascent it was - can't remember a thing about it but i'm sure it was great 7/21 - day 16 - back after a long trip to tower rock, bill n' i nonetheless rallied the morning after to do a corner lap in the wondrous cool of the mid-morning - clouds and breeze - a pair of bros pleasant enough to let us pass at the base - goddamn i still haven't figured out a way to start p2 w/o fucking up my shins and scaring shit out of myself - hidden treats - a lengthy yack-yack at the ledge - then home to prepare for the arrival of the family after a month n' a half away... bootied 2 phat steel biners off the base of p2 - might could make a present back of them if the feller who left them wants them n' understands it was either going to be me or the next party through to claim them as a prize 8/20 - day 17 - dod's w/ kenny, me rather rusty after a month of a whole lotta not climbing - practically a full division of armor heading west over the rail-head, a site i'd long wished to behold - christ, is summer so near deceased? 8/26 - day 18 - solo lap in the afternoon, moonlight climb at night - shared the stone w/ 2 lovely shielas on the first round (we bootied your nut if'n you want it back) n' the night round was w/ the silverman crowd - hooting n' hollering down on the dock w/ a drunken dave n' a krunked kenny - gripped drive home as the goddamn check engine light came back on 8/31 - day 19 - last day before returning to work - all good things.... takes fist w/ ben - hadn't climbed this in a coon's age, it sure hadn't gotten easier in the meantime Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 That Ben is just a crushing it. Keep on firing it Ivano@! Quote
MrGecko Posted September 1, 2015 Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) I've been thinking about the discussion above and pins in cracks vs. bolts beside them. I suppose if bolting was easier than pounding in a pin climbers would have taken that option way back when as a first approach to fixed gear, however that wasn't the case. But pounding pins has a major drawback vs. bolting, it permanently scars the rock feature that the climber is attempting to ascend. If you have ever climbed Serenity Crack then its obvious that you are mostly climbing pin scars and not so much a natural feature at times. Had the crack been bolted then the same fixed protection locations would have been afforded but the climbable feature would have been left natural and unaltered. Should the bolts ever need to be removed because of advancements in clean climbing gear, the holes could be filled and following climbers would be none-the-wiser. In addition, if a policy was adopted that bolts being used alongside cracks as fixed pro were pulled/cleaned and the hole reused this would minimize the damage to the natural state of the route. So I'm starting to view pounding in pins, which may or may not be replaced at a future date more akin to chipping a route and that, from what I can tell, is definitely frowned upon in the climbing community. Edited September 2, 2015 by MrGecko Quote
pink Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 I've been thinking about the discussion above and pins in cracks vs. bolts beside them. I suppose if bolting was easier than pounding in a pin climbers would have taken that option way back when as a first approach to fixed gear, however that wasn't the case. But pounding pins has a major drawback vs. bolting, it permanently scars the rock feature that the climber is attempting to ascend. If you have ever climbed Serenity Crack then its obvious that you are mostly climbing pin scars and not so much a natural feature at times. Had the crack been bolted then the same fixed protection locations would have been afforded but the climbable feature would have been left natural and unaltered. Should the bolts ever need to be removed because of advancements in clean climbing gear, the holes could be filled and following climbers would be none-the-wiser. In addition, if a policy was adopted that bolts being used alongside cracks as fixed pro were pulled/cleaned and the hole reused this would minimize the damage to the natural state of the route. So I'm starting to view pounding in pins, which may or may not be replaced at a future date more akin to chipping a route and that, from what I can tell, is definitely frowned upon in the climbing community. My favorite Pin Pounding Music.... [video:youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdzU6YpzJsY&feature=share Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 It is not considered chipping a route to place a pin, but placing bolts alongside cracks is considered very poor style in general, and scoffed at by the climbing community in general. Serenity Crack would not be climbed free by 99% of the people it is today if it had not been pinned out for years aid climbing, and creating bomber locks and clean placements. Quote
ivan Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 if the conversation's about using pins as fixed gear then the point about scars being left behind is irrelevant, no? Quote
MrGecko Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 "Serenity Crack would not be climbed free by 99% of the people it is today if it had not been pinned out for years aid climbing, and creating bomber locks and clean placements. " Does that validate the fact that the rock was damaged by pitons? If so then why can't climbers head out to Beacon and beat the shit out of a route with pins until its nature becomes similar to that as Serenity? That way more of us could climb those harder routes. Quote
MrGecko Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 if the conversation's about using pins as fixed gear then the point about scars being left behind is irrelevant, no? The problem is that routes eventually lose old pins, when the pins are replaced they damage the rock further and then on some next cycle those old pin holes become hand holds and/or gear placements. It might not be in our generation but maybe in the next cycle or thereafter. Quote
pink Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 If so then why can't climbers head out to Beacon and beat the shit out of a route with pins until its nature becomes similar to that as Serenity?. Cause i will fly out and take ur pin rack away from you Quote
JosephH Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 if the conversation's about using pins as fixed gear then the point about scars being left behind is irrelevant, no? The problem is that routes eventually lose old pins, when the pins are replaced they damage the rock further and then on some next cycle those old pin holes become hand holds and/or gear placements. Ivan is right, it's about fixed pins and I didn't widen or damage the pin placements in the process of checking / resetting them and, in the case of most of the Beacon pins, they didn't cause any damage when originally placed and by and large shouldn't if you know what you're doing (and there were way, way more incompetently placed bolts than pins out there). In general, bringing up a Valley route example where pins were placed and removed hundreds, if not thousands of times has little relevance to the use of fixed pins anywhere and at Beacon in particular. I suppose you could make an argument that folks no longer know how to place or check pins and / or aren't interested in learning, but that's another deal altogether and again about on par with a strong bias for cams because the requisite learning with passive gear never happened. Quote
billcoe Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 I got to climb (follow Chad) up Superstitions first pitch out a Broughtons before my surgery (so while back). It had been a long while since I'd been on it (years*cough*) At first I was annoyed to see that the fixed pins had been replaced with bolts. However, it climbs better now. Pins pretty much go where they have to go, bolts can go in for the best stance), and I remembered that they were blades, not Bugaboos. So short pins and not something you'd want to take a serious fall on. Figured someone fell and ripped one or more, and that's what caused the bolts to go in. It wasn't my route (I think it was Mark Cartier and Jeff Thomas's) and I don't climb much at Broughtons so no one mentioned it to me. Whoever did the bolting did a good job with it, and after climbing it I thought the route was better. I'm not advocating for a change from pins to bolts, but I do think folks need to keep an open mind and decide on a case by case basis. When checking the pins at Beacon, if the pin placement is good it should be placed back. If it's not or it pulled out in a short fall on someone, put in a bolt if you have too. Should be a fairly rare thing to occur. Quote
stevetimetravlr Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 Bill nails it, literally and figuratively! Quote
MrGecko Posted September 2, 2015 Posted September 2, 2015 (edited) Joseph, there is a good AAJ article that Tom Frost compiled along with his concerns about pins long before my time and it included areas beyond Yosemite, I just used Serenity as a convenient example. If you can't read the post here I can send you the article although I believe its all searchable on the AAI website. Regarding Beacon, I was on Fear of Flying and the upper pin on the first pitch no longer exists. Apparently it is no longer needed because where it used to sit is now a place for gear which didn't exist before. The second pitch also is missing a pin and I suspect the situation is similar but can't confirm as I am not that familiar with that route. I'm relaying this second hand as I don't really know where the pins were placed but was informed that this is the case. This could be conjecture and feel free to set the story straight if you know more. If I come across more examples I'll make note and share. I'm not advocating bolting all the cracks but am thinking alongside with the rest of our community on how we address climbing, safety, maintenance and preservation of the routes as best we can. Bill's experience shines a great perspective on a particular route and reminds me that often there isn't a one solution fits all to these issues. Appreciate all the fodder. Edited September 2, 2015 by MrGecko Quote
JosephH Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 Pins pretty much go where they have to go, bolts can go in for the best stance True enough, but that as a rationale for pulling a pin from a crack and bolting nearby seems again a big step away from what Beacon and all the FAs there are about and particularly the spirit and tradition embodied in those lines - are you saying we should chuck that for the sake of more convenient stances? If so, I can't agree. I don't think we should retrobolt existing trad routes simply for the sake of better stances. ...and I remembered that they were blades, not Bugaboos. So short pins and not something you'd want to take a serious fall on. Exactly. When checking the pins at Beacon, if the pin placement is good it should be placed back. If it's not or it pulled out in a short fall on someone, put in a bolt if you have too. Absolutely. And having checked all the South face pins except a couple over the AoT that's exactly what happened. Again, the only really dubious pin placements are the first p1 pin and the p4 angle on Young Warriors - the first should be bolted given the character of the rest of the pitch; the big angle on p4 is completely unnecessary and should really be pulled but I reset it as well as possible because there'd have been no end of the bitching if I hadn't. Should be a fairly rare thing to occur. Well, I'm sure glad you ended by qualified all that with this otherwise someone could easily get the mistaken impression you are in fact advocating retrobolting the pins out. Bill nails it, literally and figuratively! He sure does. He's also not saying anything I haven't said repeatedly, if not endlessly, up thread other than possibly being open to the idea of retrobolting for better stances (and I have to say it sure is hard to argue that routes like BS&S couldn't be made 'better' if that's your criteria). Joseph, there is a good AAJ article that Tom Frost compiled along with his concerns about pins long before my time and it included areas beyond Yosemite, I just used Serenity as a convenient example. If you can't read the post here I can send you the article although I believe its all searchable on the AAI website. Yes, it's a great article written in the midst of the clean climbing revolution that lots of climbers claim never really happened. I read it in late '74 two years after it was written and it, along with Chouinard's writings and others, shaped my climbing in fundamental ways and embodies exactly the ideas and principles I've climbed with for forty-one years and that I have been advocating here all along. The whole thrust of the article was about the need to get folks moving away from hammering and removing pins on each ascent and get them to start using nuts and leaving fixed pins if necessary, skipping fixed pins and bolts whenever possible - exactly the case out at Beacon. And I'd personally go even farther and pull about sixty percent of the fixed anchors out there if it were up to me. Regarding Beacon, I was on Fear of Flying and the upper pin on the first pitch no longer exists. Apparently it is no longer needed because where it used to sit is now a place for gear which didn't exist before. The second pitch also is missing a pin and I suspect the situation is similar but can't confirm as I am not that familiar with that route. I'm relaying this second hand as I don't really know where the pins were placed but was informed that this is the case. This could be conjecture and feel free to set the story straight if you know more. I addressed this question up thread with specific details and even pictures. The two pins you speak of were angles - one a baby angle, one a medium. Both funked out with a breath and were basically worthless; both placements took pro completely fine (one nuts or cams, the other cams). They were not replaced. I'm not advocating bolting all the cracks but am thinking alongside with the rest of our community on how we address climbing, safety, maintenance and preservation of the routes as best we can. Yeah, but 'safety' is tricky business. Planet Granite has obviously decided five, six or - god forbid - seven foot bolt spacing isn't 'safe' enough these days (the whole of Ozone is clearly unsafe now). Or go climb BS&S and tell me if it's 'safe'. If any of you are really worried about 'safety' then I'd say the solution is simple: just do the work as I outlined previously - maintain the fixed pro, pins and bolts, on a sustaining basis. All the pins have been checked - none of the ones on existing routes other than the ones I've mentioned need to be replaced by bolts unless your rationale is enhancing stances which I personally would consider lamentable in the extreme. It's no different than bitching about dirty routes [of course due to the closure] - everyone adopt a route or two and on the open just do the work. Bill's experience shines a great perspective on a particular route and reminds me that often there isn't a one solution fits all to these issues. Already addressed above and I'm not now and never have advocated for a single solution. However, I am advocating NOT destroying the essential character of existing Beacon FAs by retrobolting pins out for the sake of convenience, 'better' stances, or (the most dubious of all) 'safety'. Quote
kevbone Posted September 3, 2015 Author Posted September 3, 2015 JosephH Yeah, but 'safety' is tricky business. Wrong. You cant avoid all the risk in climbing but it is not tricky. Quote
kevbone Posted September 3, 2015 Author Posted September 3, 2015 JH....pins were used back in the day because bolts and battery drills had not been invented yet. Don't kid yourself with the self righteous dogma you spew about "essential character of existing Beacon FAs". If Beacon was found last year it would look very different. I would not have a problem with it either. Quote
pink Posted September 3, 2015 Posted September 3, 2015 JH....pins were used back in the day because bolts and battery drills had not been invented yet. Don't kid yourself with the self righteous dogma you spew about "essential character of existing Beacon FAs". If Beacon was found last year it would look very different. I would not have a problem with it either. Quote
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