prole Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae (translating to the law of parsimony, law of economy or law of succinctness). When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood. To quote Isaac Newton, "we are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. Therefore, to the same natural effects we must, so far as possible, assign the same causes."[4] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 the way you know this wasn't a bush conspiracy is that it actually worked  the defense industry owned the country before 9/11 anyhow, it's not like they needed a new line of bullshit to keep the shekels flying their way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Yes they owned it....but we needed an excuse to occupy Iraq. Jeezzz..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete_H Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Chode boy. I understand where you are coming from. I suppose for a simpleton it is easier to just accept everything as face value. Â The expression is "at face value." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Nice rebuttal compendium Choada, gonna have to bookmark that for the next time some turdther blabbers at me about what's the best brand of tinfoil to keep the CIA out of my head. Â I'm here for you. Â "Zeitgeist" is a piece of shit that some of the conspiracy numb nuts glom on to for some reason. I put it on the list for those that are too dim witted to make sense out of the other links. Â The Purdue computer simulation is remarkable. Â In my mind, an analysis of the facts is far more interesting than considering any conspiracy theory alternative. Much like contemplating science vs. religion. Religion is a dead end, while science continually brings new things to light. Sadly, many Americans are too dumb to not cling to their ancient mythologies and stupid ideas. I guess it makes more sense and is safer for them to think that what happened on 9/11 could only have taken place if there was a massive conspiracy, and not a couple guys with box knives and a few flying lessons. Â You know, you'd be, like, kinda smart and interesting, and stuff, if you'd ditch the whole angry teenager-everyone's-an-idiot routine. You'd probably be a whole lot less miserable too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-rock Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Occam's razor states that the explanation of any phenomenon should make as few assumptions as possible, eliminating those that make no difference in the observable predictions of the explanatory hypothesis or theory. The principle is often expressed in Latin as the lex parsimoniae (translating to the law of parsimony, law of economy or law of succinctness). When competing hypotheses are equal in other respects, the principle recommends selection of the hypothesis that introduces the fewest assumptions and postulates the fewest entities while still sufficiently answering the question. It is in this sense that Occam's razor is usually understood. To quote Isaac Newton, "we are to admit no more causes of natural things than such as are both true and sufficient to explain their appearances. Therefore, to the same natural effects we must, so far as possible, assign the same causes."[4] Â Occam's razor is not a necessary or particularky powerful tool of the scientific method. Hypotheses about the natural world can be tested regardless of their assumptions. The problem with conspiracy theories is not the complexity of the arguments, it's the fact that their adherents refuse to accept that any logical test of their theories can be devised. Edited October 15, 2009 by E-rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Â The problem with conspiracy theories is not the complexity of the arguments, it's the fact that their adherents refuse to accept that any logical test of their theories can be devised. Â Yada yada yada.....except Zeitgeist poked so many holes in what the government told you happened that it raised a reasonable doubt. Â Remember, we all get our information from the same places. At the end of the day, you will believe what you want to believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Nice rebuttal compendium Choada, gonna have to bookmark that for the next time some turdther blabbers at me about what's the best brand of tinfoil to keep the CIA out of my head. Â I'm here for you. Â "Zeitgeist" is a piece of shit that some of the conspiracy numb nuts glom on to for some reason. I put it on the list for those that are too dim witted to make sense out of the other links. Â The Purdue computer simulation is remarkable. Â In my mind, an analysis of the facts is far more interesting than considering any conspiracy theory alternative. Much like contemplating science vs. religion. Religion is a dead end, while science continually brings new things to light. Sadly, many Americans are too dumb to not cling to their ancient mythologies and stupid ideas. I guess it makes more sense and is safer for them to think that what happened on 9/11 could only have taken place if there was a massive conspiracy, and not a couple guys with box knives and a few flying lessons. Â You know, you'd be, like, kinda smart and interesting, and stuff, if you'd ditch the whole angry teenager-everyone's-an-idiot routine. You'd probably be a whole lot less miserable too. Â Take it as mimicry, and therefore flattery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Nice rebuttal compendium Choada, gonna have to bookmark that for the next time some turdther blabbers at me about what's the best brand of tinfoil to keep the CIA out of my head. Â I'm here for you. Â "Zeitgeist" is a piece of shit that some of the conspiracy numb nuts glom on to for some reason. I put it on the list for those that are too dim witted to make sense out of the other links. Â The Purdue computer simulation is remarkable. Â In my mind, an analysis of the facts is far more interesting than considering any conspiracy theory alternative. Much like contemplating science vs. religion. Religion is a dead end, while science continually brings new things to light. Sadly, many Americans are too dumb to not cling to their ancient mythologies and stupid ideas. I guess it makes more sense and is safer for them to think that what happened on 9/11 could only have taken place if there was a massive conspiracy, and not a couple guys with box knives and a few flying lessons. Â You know, you'd be, like, kinda smart and interesting, and stuff, if you'd ditch the whole angry teenager-everyone's-an-idiot routine. You'd probably be a whole lot less miserable too. Â Eat my fuck. You don't know me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choada_Boy Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Yada yada yada.....except Zeitgeist poked so many holes in what the government told you happened that it raised a reasonable doubt. Â Remember, we all get our information from the same places. At the end of the day, you will believe what you want to believe. Â You're joking, right? How about you start "believing" in what are called "facts"? All of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I propose that Erock, Choada, and myself form a support group to help us get over our shyness issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 (edited) Conspiracy junkies get off on the perception that everyone else is wrong. What they believe in must be, therefore, incredible. Â To fill this emotional need (it certainly isn't an intellectual one), they assume certain things about human nature that, surprise, most others don't. That humans beings are actually good at keeping secrets. That large numbers of human beings are capable of entering into a functioning conspiracy. That human beings are nearly perfectly competent. That members of such a conspiracy are capable of acting, indefinitely, without conscience. And on and on...until the next assclown puts up a website revealing that there really is, in fact, a B17 on the moon. Â To this end, they employ a couple of logical, or illogical, devices. One is massive filtering of publicly vetted evidence, you know, all the stuff the government 'wants you to believe', in favor of those few dots that can be connected by a creative mind to reveal the dark secret within. These lies are substited with 'conclusive proof' based on something that DIDN"T happen or that is MISSING...contraary to any Logic 101 text, of course. This 'proof' is usuallly bsed on one or two grainy photos (hand picked out of hundreds of others that constitute the body of lies, of course) Edited October 15, 2009 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Yada yada yada.....except Zeitgeist poked so many holes in what the government told you happened that it raised a reasonable doubt. Â Remember, we all get our information from the same places. At the end of the day, you will believe what you want to believe. Â You're joking, right? How about you start "believing" in what are called "facts"? All of them. Â Â the question is.....where do you get your facts from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 I propose that Erock, Choada, and myself form a support group to help us get over our shyness issues. then after your meetings you can pop down to the local malt shop and get tall, cool glasses of shut-the-fuck-up? Â right, next you're probably gonna say guy fawkes DIDN'T really have a conspiracy to blow up parliament! Â kev, i get all my facts from cc.com - is that not good? Â "3 can keep a secret, if 2 of them are dead" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009  kev, i get all my facts from cc.com - is that not good?  It is illrelevant if it is good or not. Question is….do you believe it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Yes they owned it....but we needed an excuse to occupy Iraq. Jeezzz..... Â Mmmm, yes. What exactly was the ::GRAND PLAN:: here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted October 15, 2009 Author Share Posted October 15, 2009 Yes they owned it....but we needed an excuse to occupy Iraq. Jeezzz.....  Mmmm, yes. What exactly was the ::GRAND PLAN:: here?  Occupy Iraq for a continued war that was meant to be sustained (not won), so the government would borrow huge amounts of money from the fed reserve then they would turn around and charge the tax payers interest. And for all the private contractors (Blackwater….etc…..) to be awarded no bid contracts. Or did you not get the memo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Ahhh...so diabolical. So much better than actually establishing a steady flow of oil, a rising standard of living and growing consumer markets, good will for further American military projects and outlets for multinational capital, leverage against competition from China and Russia, a stable base from which to project power in the region, more security for Israel, etc, etc. Yeah, the opposite is more fun, if less profitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
prole Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Â Your ring is in the mail, by the way... Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johndavidjr Posted October 15, 2009 Share Posted October 15, 2009 Everything that happened is well understood. I saw the whole thing from a mile away, including Building 7. Not pretty. Talking sh*t is really dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crackers Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Everything that happened is well understood. I saw the whole thing from a mile away, including Building 7. Not pretty. Talking sh*t is really dumb. Â My view ranged from 90th street at 8:45am down to on area in the late morning. It sucked. I second JDjr's thoughts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 Everything that happened is well understood. I saw the whole thing from a mile away, including Building 7. Not pretty. Talking sh*t is really dumb. Â My view ranged from 90th street at 8:45am down to on area in the late morning. It sucked. I second JDjr's thoughts. what'eva! we both know ya'll were in on the conspiracy now! Â kev, do you also believe that jfk was killed by the cia, that alien bodies are on ice in area 51, that fdr knew the japs were coming on dec 7, that the pentavirate actually rule the world, the the pyramids were built by martians, etc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponderosa Posted October 16, 2009 Share Posted October 16, 2009 kev, do you also believe ...that the pentavirate actually rule the world, ... Â ...including the Colonel before he went tits up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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