Sport vs Trad

[tvashtarkatena]

Also, I climb with folks who put up a ton of rock FA's in WA. None of them, not one, advocate or celebrate repeating the run out/shitty gear style of climbing they practiced back in the day. They realize that that was then, they were young and crazy, and this is now. In fact, several of that same group actively still upgrade the bolts, anchors, and trails at the areas they developed way back when. Darrington comes to mind. Thanks from the rest of us, guys. Your continued efforts to keep Washington's wedder little jewels maintained to a high standard are greatly appreciated.

 

The difference may be, of course, that these guys all still climb.

[tvashtarkatena]

 

Can I borrow your pellet gun, Mr. Messner? I've got a big rat in my compost pile who needs an eviction notice.

[G-spotter]

Also, I climb with folks who put up a ton of rock FA's in WA.

 

But how many of them are ACCREDITED MOUNTAIN GUIDES? Huh? How many guidebooks have they written? Did you teach some of them to climb? Not to brag, y'know.

[tvashtarkatena]

I sank the Bismark when I was a specfor operative.

 

No need to brag any further.

Edited August 11, 2009 by tvashtarkatena

[G-spotter]

For instance

 

y. One of the easiest of these climbs is Delusional Reality. This climb is not for a beginner. Rated at 5.9, this climb is, in this climber’s opinion, the biggest sand bagged climb in BC. Before you dismiss this claim as the ramblings of some jaded has-been. Know that I have climbed extensively in every climbing area in BC south of Prince George. And I have traveled and climbed in almost every major climbing area west of Moab Utah. Based on my experience, this climb is host of the hardest 5.9 I’ve ever climbed. In comparison I’ve climbed Angels Crest (5.10b) in Squamish twice and consider that climb much easier. With that said, this climb is still worth doing and is a truly adventurous outing. HOO, WA!

 

Have you climbed Angel's Crest, TWICE?

[richard_noggin]

The real climbers I know I see at the crag, in the mountains, obscure bushwhacks, trail projects (they replace old hardware and clean up climbing areas like the recent nevermind project)they try to keep access to their favorite crags and routes, clean and put up new routes.

They don’t spray a bunch of negative ethics BS on the internet talk'n about yesteryear,or post a bunch of lame ass pictures .

BTW You might want to give that BLT climb a go before you start dis'n it, I skip bolts on it, but beware your look’n at the deck if you fall.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

The real climbers I know I see at the crag, in the mountains, obscure bushwhacks, trail projects (they replace old hardware and clean up climbing areas like the recent nevermind project)they try to keep access to their favorite crags and routes, clean and put up new routes.

 

 

dude, are those kind of people turned off by this site because it is run by sportos? i've heard there's more and more folks like that out there that you might run into while climbing...

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

Yeah, that's all well and good, but just remember...

 

 

nuff said.

[Kimmo]

still going; good work people. it's really the new perspectives that are keeping this thread going strong.

 

 

but the following?

 

Also, I climb with folks who put up a ton of rock FA's in WA. None of them, not one, advocate or celebrate repeating the run out/shitty gear style of climbing they practiced back in the day. They realize that that was then, they were young and crazy, and this is now.

 

i don't know who you do your pull-ups with, but middle-aged complacency and the attendant fitness challenges are a poor excuse for eliminating climbs that have stood as awesome testaments to the acceptance of particular types of challenges (and continue to provide these challenges for those interested). it seems as though maybe you've never really understood this type of climbing; that's cool. but some climbs need to and will continue to exist in their original state.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

And I'm not sure what the hell you're going on about (does anyone?), but I'm referring primarily (as I mentioned) to Darrington: which has been a bolted area from the very beginning. The originators of the climbs there ARE the ones upgrading them...again, as I previously stated.

 

Dumbass.

 

Edited August 11, 2009 by tvashtarkatena

[Kimmo]

The real climbers I know I see at the crag, in the mountains, obscure bushwhacks, trail projects (they replace old hardware and clean up climbing areas like the recent nevermind project)they try to keep access to their favorite crags and routes, clean and put up new routes.

 

They don’t spray a bunch of negative ethics BS on the internet talk'n about yesteryear,or post a bunch of lame ass pictures .

 

 

no defense of dwayner or pope here, but do you really advocate an approach to climbing that has no considerations of one's impact on both climbing and the environment? i suppose you're simply running off against the demagoguery of dwayner and pope....

 

not that it really matters; all of this catterwauling is simply here for my entertainment.

[tvashtarkatena]

The real climbers I know I see at the crag, in the mountains, obscure bushwhacks, trail projects (they replace old hardware and clean up climbing areas like the recent nevermind project)they try to keep access to their favorite crags and routes, clean and put up new routes.

 

They don’t spray a bunch of negative ethics BS on the internet talk'n about yesteryear,or post a bunch of lame ass pictures .

 

 

 

 

no defense of dwayner or pope here, but do you really advocate an approach to climbing that has no considerations of one's impact on both climbing and the environment? i suppose you're simply running off against the demagoguery of dwayner and pope....

 

not that it really matters; all of this catterwauling is simply here for my entertainment.

 

Is this guy that out to lunch? His responses seem to have nothing to do with the posts he's quoting.

 

Not that there's anything wrong with that. The world's big enough for loonytoons, too.

Edited August 11, 2009 by tvashtarkatena

[Kimmo]

Also, I climb with folks who put up a ton of rock FA's in WA.

 

hmmm does that say WA? i guess i never knew darrington was spelled WA.

 

dumbass.

 

btw, don't tell me to go read yer previous chin dribble, cuz i ain't that much of a masochist. the above was enough.

[tvashtarkatena]

Welcome back, AKA!

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Congrats! This thread now has more replies than the "Christian Climbers" thread. Just a few dozen more posts to pass up "the queens of spray"!

 

[Kimmo]

His responses seem to have nothing to do with the posts he's quoting.

 

i know the connections might be a wee bit hard for you to see, but to put it simply, you are failing to entertain me.

 

more hover fly pics please. yer photogs are cool.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

more hover fly pics please. yer photogs are cool.

 

If you stick around long enough for Unidawg to wake up from his midmorning nap, you may get treated to a few more Care Bear pics.

[Off_White]

Welcome back, AKA!

 

 

BZZZZT! And the board goes back...

[G-spotter]

 

You sank these in your man-pregnant gut

[tvashtarkatena]

 

You sank these in your man-pregnant gut

 

Those look pretty fucking tasty.

[Kimmo]

Welcome back, AKA!

 

 

BZZZZT! And the board goes back...

 

 

he's connectionally challenged. but he has excuses. at least i have excuses for him. not sure what yet, but i'm sure there will be no shortage.

 

but his photogs are cool!

[Kimmo]

i've read somewhere that once white men make a little money and get to middle age, it's kinda hard for them to see their own stupidity.

 

any truth to that?

[Kimmo]

ah lighten up!

 

more photos please!

[Kimmo]

i've read somewhere that once white men make a little money and get to middle age, it's kinda hard for them to see their own stupidity.

 

any truth to that?

 

i think nietszche talked about this, didn't he kkk?

[billcoe]

It's funny what a glitch will do, but after going back to Spray after my last post the way-back bug filled my list with vintage threads. This one from eight years ago is quite relevant and entertaining: Bolt Mania. To give some historical perspective, you'll come to understand that the "anonymous" who started the thread was Donna Top Step, one of Raindawg's old avatars. Cute that he lays claim to a female perspective.

Great soap opera find Off!!! Best post may be the interchange between Pope and Don who are seeing each other as we see them now: start with Popes reply to Don who is posing as the uber bitch "Donna". From the way back machine of 2001....(dim lights and cue organ music please)

Donna, How dare you patronize me you little bitch. Read the post and (after removing your foot from your pie hole) notice that I too DISAGREE with the notion that the first ascentionist has jurisdiction over future fixed protection additions. When many people gather the guts, skill and determination necessary for such a lead, they have established a standard for others to emulate and as such, they propel the route into part of the local tradition. When many climbers eschew bolts and respect a bold lead by top-roping, they too add to the tradition of respect and style. In no way does the first ascentionist have the right to ignore this tradition and grant permission for rock-damaging bolts. I'm quite capable of thinking for myself and from the quality of your analysis I might suggest that you allow me do the lion's share of your thinking too.

.....Pope: you're pathetic. "Shut your pie-hole!" Really! Is that any way to talk to a lady? did you learn that in a Rat Pack movie? I've done my time with you, pal, and your problem seems to be that I didn't let you into my pie-hole. I'm new to this bulletin board and I've seen some fine points, many from people I disagree with, but you, sir, .......never mind. Big Lou you're not! Thank goodness for people like Peter Puget, Max, Dru and some of these other folks who can throw in their two cents worth without getting their PANTIES in a MASSIVE WAD. - Donna

Donna, You may be a hot little package, but it's time we have an understanding: I am over you, the way you wish you were over me. And I know you left that bikini out by my hot tub just so that YOU KNOW WHO would find it. You're still bent out of shape 'cause I kicked you off the '98 Cirque Expedition, but your hot-blooded ways were creating too much intrigue around camp. What was I to do? Don't even preach to me about the classy way to treat a lady: you're not a lady, and you ain't classy. And hey, you may think that Canadian guy Dru treats you with respect, but I'm sure he's just trying to get you in the sack.....

Bye Bye, Pope! Glad to see you drop out of the discussion. What a punk! Dragging our personal lives into a forum about bolting, eh? Just to keep the record straight, you didn't kick me off the Cirque expedition, I left after YOU CRAPPED IN YOUR OWN SLEEPING BAG. Lazy bastard couldn't even bother to get out of the tent! Can you imagine someone HOLDING A nalgene BOTTLE UNDER HIS BUTT, in his sleeping bag in a ridiculous attempt to relieve himself because it was "just too cold outside"? And then missing? That was just the final straw in a whole, (or should I say hole)series of lame incidents with you and your incompetent buddies. I bet you still sleep in that bag, don't you! I'd say we're now "tit for tat", Pope, but I know you'd only reply with "I've got some tat for you...." You can make disparaging remarks about women if you like, just don't bitch at your mom if you expect her to continue to let you live in her basement for the next dozen or so years. So, how about that bolting?

then in response to an anti-bolt Pope post to another CC'er:

Excellent comments, "Pope"!!! It makes me almost regret my previous post in which I mentioned the fact that you CRAPPED IN YOUR OWN SLEEPING BAG! Let's just say, just for discussion purposes, that many agreed that bolts are generally inappropriate. etc etc ...- Donna

OK, now for the rest of the story. NOBODY CRAPPED OUT ON THE GLACIER AT NIGHT on the '98 Cirque expedition. Bitter cold winds had forced us to set up a Chouinard Pyramid over the hole we were using as a latrine (two climbers actually suffered frost bite on their tallywackers before we made this move).

One particular evening I visited this latrine tent five different times only to find DONNA TOP-STEP WITH TWO BRITISH CLIMBERS AND A YAK HAVING A FOUR-WAY IN THE LATRINE TENT. They must have been in there for six hours, and I had no choice but to attempt to crap in my own tent, using a Nalgene bottle to capture the turd. I missed the target because just as I was about to release the critter, I STEPPED ON THE RAZOR I HAD BEEN USING TO SHAVE DONNA'S BACK. Donna's story is, as you can see, thin on details, but otherwise factual except for the part about the sleeping bag: it was, of course, her bag. And that's why I think we should reconsider the practice of bolting our crags.

LOL!!!

"Pope"!!! You're killing what was becoming a great discussion about bolting which has produced a wide range of interesting opinions. Your comments about yaks and shaving my back are so absurd that you will quickly be losing your credibility. Stick to the topic, you jerk, and just to set the record straight: There was no latrine tent on the 98 Cirque expedition although we had a cook tent. It only resembled a latrine when it was Pope's turn to cook. It's true that a couple of guys got their li'l wee-wee's cold but they shouldn't have been waving them around writing their names or having sword fights or whatever it is that guys do with those things. After that, we built a latrine from snow blocks or carefully did our business in pee bottles or zip-lock bags. As far as the two British climbers are concerned, that's a load of nonsense. It was an Italian with two personalities and at least he (or they?) sends me a birthday card every year. If there was a razor on our expedition, it was probably to shave your bushy mono-brow, Pope! So lets hear some bolting comments. I offered a couple of interesting questions above until "Pope" had to pop-off yet again. Believe it or not, he's actually quite bright when he's not obsessing over his failed sexual conquests. Hey, Pope! If you were the only climber I knew, I'd tell my gurlfriends to avoid the whole group; a subject for future discussion. Chop and restore? Implications of chopping? (See post above, prior to "Pope's" moronic yak comments.)- Donna P.S. It WAS Pope's own sleeping bag.

The dude named Whopper weighs in with this:

Are you people for real??

Good,nee, GREAT stuff!!! The rest of the discussion makes me feel dirty and throw up in my mouth a little, so I think I'm done.