F%&$#king Terrorists

[Winter]

exactly apples to apples. Why is an act of violence by a Muslin labeled terrorism and an act of violence against an abortion doctor labeled murder? So, FW, should what happened to the abortion dr be labeled terrorism or not? or perhaps you'd like to change the subject again with another diversion.

[Pete_H]

THE GAYS ARE GETTING MARRIED! THE GAYS ARE GETTING MARRIED!

THE GAYS ARE GETTING MARRIED! THE GAYS ARE GETTING MARRIED!

[Fairweather]

exactly apples to apples. Why is an act of violence by a Muslin labeled terrorism and an act of violence against an abortion doctor labeled murder? So, FW, should what happened to the abortion dr be labeled terrorism or not? or perhaps you'd like to change the subject again with another diversion.

 

Of course. This act is clearly a case of domestic terrorism. I'll even grant that it's a good deal more repulsive that those Oregon ELF-types burning down laboratories or ski lifts--acts that seem to bring out the chirping crickets with avatars like yours. But if you had bothered to calm your jerking knee you might have taken my comparison at face value. Yes, both the murder of the abortion doc and the islam convert murder of the Army recruiter are terrorism.

[Mal_Con]

Both deserve to be someones bitch for the rest of their lives.

[Winter]

ahh more friendly and totally baseless personal attacks from FW. good times on cc.com.

 

 

[prole]

As the plot thickens , it's becoming abundantly clear that the Tiller shooter can be placed firmly within the long standing domestic terrorist networks of America's extreme Right. While talk radio blowhards and congressional sympathizers rail against "creeping socialism" the actual historically verifiable threat to American lives gets a free pass or we're soft-peddled some limp refrain about not condoning violence. It's high time the GOP and the Libertarian Party cleaned out its stables of these wackos and their apologists, lest they fall further into oblivion.

[Peter_Puget]

On Sunday, abortion doctor George Tiller was murdered at his church in Wichita, Kan. He was one of a handful of doctors in the U.S. who performed late-term abortions and for decades had been a target of virulent criticism from antiabortion activists. His clinic had been bombed and vandalized, and in 1993 he was shot in both arms in a failed assassination attempt. Tiller's alleged killer, Scott Roeder, is a long-time radical antiabortion activist with reported ties to a militant antigovernment organization called the Freemen.

 

Within hours after the murder, every antiabortion group in the country denounced the attack. Robert P. George, a leading Catholic intellectual opponent of abortion, wrote that "George Tiller's life was precious" and characterized his murder as "a gravely wicked thing." He called on his fellow abortion opponents to "teach that violence against abortionists is not the answer to the violence of abortion."

 

Even Operation Rescue, the extreme antiabortion group that organized a six-week blockade of Tiller's office in 1991, issued a statement condemning the murder. "We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning," Troy Newman, the organization's president, said.

 

These unqualified reproaches are nothing new. The organized antiabortion movement has always opposed violence against abortion providers. That has never stopped opportunistic prochoice activists, however, from conflating their passionate rhetoric with the behavior of individual criminals. True to form, on Sunday, Mike Hendricks of the Kansas City Star accused anyone who had criticized Tiller as a murderer (Tiller aborted healthy, nine-month old fetuses) of being an "accomplice" to his death.

 

Over the past decade this argumentative tactic has taken on an even more insidious twist. In addition to fighting violent, Muslim jihadists abroad, some liberals argue that America must deal with its own, homegrown terrorists. These are not just people who commit violence but millions of socially conservative evangelicals and Catholics -- "Christianists" -- who comprise the base of the Republican Party and threaten the stability of the country.

 

In 2007, former New York Times Middle East Bureau Chief Chris Hedges published a book called "American Fascists" that compared conservative evangelicals to European brownshirts of the 1920s and 1930s. That same year, CNN's Christiane Amanpour hosted a three-part series, "God's Warriors," that equated Christian (and Jewish) fundamentalists with Muslim extremists.

 

The comparison between the religious right and Islamic extremists is invariably partisan so as to smear the GOP as being held hostage to forces as dangerous as Hamas or Hezbollah. "Even as the Bush administration denounces and battles Islamic religious zealotry abroad, fundamental Christian zealotry is taking hold here at home," wrote Stephen Pizzo on the liberal Alternet Web site in 2004. On his popular HBO program, comedian Bill Maher frequently compares murderous Islamists to censorious Christians.

 

But if the reactions to the death of Tiller mean anything, the "Christian Taliban," as conservative religious figures are often called, isn't living up to its namesake. If "Christianists" were anything like actual religious fascists they would applaud Tiller's murder as a "heroic martyrdom operation" and suborn further mayhem.

 

Radical Islamists revel in death. Just witness the videos that suicide bombers record before they carry out their murderous task or listen to the homicidal exhortations of extremist imams. Murder -- particularly of the unarmed and innocent -- is a righteous deed for these people. The manifestos of Islamic militant groups are replete with paeans to killing infidels. When a suicide bomb goes off in Israel, Palestinian terrorist factions compete to claim responsibility for the carnage.

 

There is no appreciable number of people in this country, religious Christians or otherwise, who support the murder of abortion doctors. The same cannot be said of Muslims who support suicide bombings in the name of their religion.

 

Yet speak of the disproportionately violent strain in Islam to a "progressive" person and you'll be met with sneering recitations of millennia-old Christian crusades or Jewish settlements in the West Bank. As for conservative Christians' contemporary political endeavors, lobbying to ban the teaching of evolution in schools or forbidding same-sex marriage simply does not threaten society in quite the same way as the genital mutilation of young girls or the bombing of the London transit system.

 

I happen to support a legal regime that would, in Bill Clinton's famous words, keep abortion safe, legal and rare. I hold no brief for the religious right, and its views on homosexuality in particular offend (and affect) me personally. But it's precisely because of my identity that I consider comparisons between so-called Christianists (who seek to limit my rights via the ballot box) and Islamic fundamentalists (who seek to limit my rights via decapitation) to be fatuous.

 

In the coming days, we will hear more about how mainstream conservative organizations and media personalities created an "environment" in which the murder of an abortion doctor became an inevitability. Just as talk radio was blamed for the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, an attempt will be made to extend the guilt for this crime from the individual who pulled the trigger to the conservative movement writ large. But the Christian right's responsible reaction to the death of George Tiller should put to rest the lie that Judeo-Christian extremists are anywhere near as numerous or dangerous as those of the Muslim variety.

 

WSJ

 

[kevbone]

Meanwhile, your party is trying its best to secure the release of individuals who are--in some cases--not distinguishable from the killer of Doctor Tiller. Again; where is your outrage?

 

Where is your evidence of this?

[kevbone]

Meanwhile, your party is trying its best to secure the release of individuals who are--in some cases--not distinguishable from the killer of Doctor Tiller.

 

How would you know; none of these people have been tried.

 

Neither has the accused in the Tiller case.

 

that is true. that is why the accused right now is inocent until proven guilty.

[Winter]

On Sunday, abortion doctor George Tiller was murdered at his church in Wichita, Kan. He was one of a handful of doctors in the U.S. who performed late-term abortions and for decades had been a target of virulent criticism from antiabortion activists. His clinic had been bombed and vandalized, and in 1993 he was shot in both arms in a failed assassination attempt. Tiller's alleged killer, Scott Roeder, is a long-time radical antiabortion activist with reported ties to a militant antigovernment organization called the Freemen.

 

Within hours after the murder, every antiabortion group in the country denounced the attack. Robert P. George, a leading Catholic intellectual opponent of abortion, wrote that "George Tiller's life was precious" and characterized his murder as "a gravely wicked thing." He called on his fellow abortion opponents to "teach that violence against abortionists is not the answer to the violence of abortion."

 

Even Operation Rescue, the extreme antiabortion group that organized a six-week blockade of Tiller's office in 1991, issued a statement condemning the murder. "We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning," Troy Newman, the organization's president, said.

 

These unqualified reproaches are nothing new. The organized antiabortion movement has always opposed violence against abortion providers. That has never stopped opportunistic prochoice activists, however, from conflating their passionate rhetoric with the behavior of individual criminals. True to form, on Sunday, Mike Hendricks of the Kansas City Star accused anyone who had criticized Tiller as a murderer (Tiller aborted healthy, nine-month old fetuses) of being an "accomplice" to his death.

 

Over the past decade this argumentative tactic has taken on an even more insidious twist. In addition to fighting violent, Muslim jihadists abroad, some liberals argue that America must deal with its own, homegrown terrorists. These are not just people who commit violence but millions of socially conservative evangelicals and Catholics -- "Christianists" -- who comprise the base of the Republican Party and threaten the stability of the country.

 

In 2007, former New York Times Middle East Bureau Chief Chris Hedges published a book called "American Fascists" that compared conservative evangelicals to European brownshirts of the 1920s and 1930s. That same year, CNN's Christiane Amanpour hosted a three-part series, "God's Warriors," that equated Christian (and Jewish) fundamentalists with Muslim extremists.

 

The comparison between the religious right and Islamic extremists is invariably partisan so as to smear the GOP as being held hostage to forces as dangerous as Hamas or Hezbollah. "Even as the Bush administration denounces and battles Islamic religious zealotry abroad, fundamental Christian zealotry is taking hold here at home," wrote Stephen Pizzo on the liberal Alternet Web site in 2004. On his popular HBO program, comedian Bill Maher frequently compares murderous Islamists to censorious Christians.

 

But if the reactions to the death of Tiller mean anything, the "Christian Taliban," as conservative religious figures are often called, isn't living up to its namesake. If "Christianists" were anything like actual religious fascists they would applaud Tiller's murder as a "heroic martyrdom operation" and suborn further mayhem.

 

Radical Islamists revel in death. Just witness the videos that suicide bombers record before they carry out their murderous task or listen to the homicidal exhortations of extremist imams. Murder -- particularly of the unarmed and innocent -- is a righteous deed for these people. The manifestos of Islamic militant groups are replete with paeans to killing infidels. When a suicide bomb goes off in Israel, Palestinian terrorist factions compete to claim responsibility for the carnage.

 

There is no appreciable number of people in this country, religious Christians or otherwise, who support the murder of abortion doctors. The same cannot be said of Muslims who support suicide bombings in the name of their religion.

 

Yet speak of the disproportionately violent strain in Islam to a "progressive" person and you'll be met with sneering recitations of millennia-old Christian crusades or Jewish settlements in the West Bank. As for conservative Christians' contemporary political endeavors, lobbying to ban the teaching of evolution in schools or forbidding same-sex marriage simply does not threaten society in quite the same way as the genital mutilation of young girls or the bombing of the London transit system.

 

I happen to support a legal regime that would, in Bill Clinton's famous words, keep abortion safe, legal and rare. I hold no brief for the religious right, and its views on homosexuality in particular offend (and affect) me personally. But it's precisely because of my identity that I consider comparisons between so-called Christianists (who seek to limit my rights via the ballot box) and Islamic fundamentalists (who seek to limit my rights via decapitation) to be fatuous.

 

In the coming days, we will hear more about how mainstream conservative organizations and media personalities created an "environment" in which the murder of an abortion doctor became an inevitability. Just as talk radio was blamed for the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, an attempt will be made to extend the guilt for this crime from the individual who pulled the trigger to the conservative movement writ large. But the Christian right's responsible reaction to the death of George Tiller should put to rest the lie that Judeo-Christian extremists are anywhere near as numerous or dangerous as those of the Muslim variety.

 

WSJ

 

Published by the WSJ - written as an opinion piece by James Kirchik. Bio

[prole]

On Sunday, abortion doctor George Tiller was murdered at his church in Wichita, Kan. He was one of a handful of doctors in the U.S. who performed late-term abortions and for decades had been a target of virulent criticism from antiabortion activists. His clinic had been bombed and vandalized, and in 1993 he was shot in both arms in a failed assassination attempt. Tiller's alleged killer, Scott Roeder, is a long-time radical antiabortion activist with reported ties to a militant antigovernment organization called the Freemen.

 

Within hours after the murder, every antiabortion group in the country denounced the attack. Robert P. George, a leading Catholic intellectual opponent of abortion, wrote that "George Tiller's life was precious" and characterized his murder as "a gravely wicked thing." He called on his fellow abortion opponents to "teach that violence against abortionists is not the answer to the violence of abortion."

 

Even Operation Rescue, the extreme antiabortion group that organized a six-week blockade of Tiller's office in 1991, issued a statement condemning the murder. "We denounce vigilantism and the cowardly act that took place this morning," Troy Newman, the organization's president, said.

 

These unqualified reproaches are nothing new. The organized antiabortion movement has always opposed violence against abortion providers. That has never stopped opportunistic prochoice activists, however, from conflating their passionate rhetoric with the behavior of individual criminals. True to form, on Sunday, Mike Hendricks of the Kansas City Star accused anyone who had criticized Tiller as a murderer (Tiller aborted healthy, nine-month old fetuses) of being an "accomplice" to his death.

 

Over the past decade this argumentative tactic has taken on an even more insidious twist. In addition to fighting violent, Muslim jihadists abroad, some liberals argue that America must deal with its own, homegrown terrorists. These are not just people who commit violence but millions of socially conservative evangelicals and Catholics -- "Christianists" -- who comprise the base of the Republican Party and threaten the stability of the country.

 

In 2007, former New York Times Middle East Bureau Chief Chris Hedges published a book called "American Fascists" that compared conservative evangelicals to European brownshirts of the 1920s and 1930s. That same year, CNN's Christiane Amanpour hosted a three-part series, "God's Warriors," that equated Christian (and Jewish) fundamentalists with Muslim extremists.

 

The comparison between the religious right and Islamic extremists is invariably partisan so as to smear the GOP as being held hostage to forces as dangerous as Hamas or Hezbollah. "Even as the Bush administration denounces and battles Islamic religious zealotry abroad, fundamental Christian zealotry is taking hold here at home," wrote Stephen Pizzo on the liberal Alternet Web site in 2004. On his popular HBO program, comedian Bill Maher frequently compares murderous Islamists to censorious Christians.

 

But if the reactions to the death of Tiller mean anything, the "Christian Taliban," as conservative religious figures are often called, isn't living up to its namesake. If "Christianists" were anything like actual religious fascists they would applaud Tiller's murder as a "heroic martyrdom operation" and suborn further mayhem.

 

Radical Islamists revel in death. Just witness the videos that suicide bombers record before they carry out their murderous task or listen to the homicidal exhortations of extremist imams. Murder -- particularly of the unarmed and innocent -- is a righteous deed for these people. The manifestos of Islamic militant groups are replete with paeans to killing infidels. When a suicide bomb goes off in Israel, Palestinian terrorist factions compete to claim responsibility for the carnage.

 

There is no appreciable number of people in this country, religious Christians or otherwise, who support the murder of abortion doctors. The same cannot be said of Muslims who support suicide bombings in the name of their religion.

 

Yet speak of the disproportionately violent strain in Islam to a "progressive" person and you'll be met with sneering recitations of millennia-old Christian crusades or Jewish settlements in the West Bank. As for conservative Christians' contemporary political endeavors, lobbying to ban the teaching of evolution in schools or forbidding same-sex marriage simply does not threaten society in quite the same way as the genital mutilation of young girls or the bombing of the London transit system.

 

I happen to support a legal regime that would, in Bill Clinton's famous words, keep abortion safe, legal and rare. I hold no brief for the religious right, and its views on homosexuality in particular offend (and affect) me personally. But it's precisely because of my identity that I consider comparisons between so-called Christianists (who seek to limit my rights via the ballot box) and Islamic fundamentalists (who seek to limit my rights via decapitation) to be fatuous.

 

In the coming days, we will hear more about how mainstream conservative organizations and media personalities created an "environment" in which the murder of an abortion doctor became an inevitability. Just as talk radio was blamed for the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, an attempt will be made to extend the guilt for this crime from the individual who pulled the trigger to the conservative movement writ large. But the Christian right's responsible reaction to the death of George Tiller should put to rest the lie that Judeo-Christian extremists are anywhere near as numerous or dangerous as those of the Muslim variety.

 

WSJ

 

NEWS ALERT!!! Christian Right Issues Press Release: "We're Not As Bad As Islamic Jihadist Wackos"

 

Thanks Peter for clearing that up.

[j_b]

Anti-Immigrant Suspects In Arizona Killing Have Ties To White Supremacists

[billcoe]

Anti-Immigrant Suspects In Arizona Killing Have Ties To White Supremacists

 

These right wing wackos are your neighbors JB: we must surmise that you must be doing a poor job at proselytizing for the left wing wackos up there.

 

"Shawna Forde, is the leader of Minutemen American Defense, a group out of Washington state that conducts operations along the U.S.-Mexican border in Arizona. "

[j_b]

Our "even-handed" Billcoe found a way (however lame) to balance out the extremist "wackos" who murder people with the "wackos" for peace ...

[billcoe]

Our "even-handed" Billcoe found a way (however lame) to balance out the extremist "wackos" who murder people with the "wackos" for peace ...

 

Nah, you're reading too much into my tongue and cheek response J.B. Wait, wasn't Robert Matthews, former leader of "The Order", finally cornered and burned to a corpse by the FBI in your back yard there on Whidbey Island as well?

 

Hmmmm, maybe there is something there after all....

 

Seriously jb, I think the left is missing the point on the abortion debate. They need to keep saying and reaffirming what the Supreme Court has found and that is this: a fetus is not a human, and it is not one because it does NOT have a heart, lungs, hands or feet. Those are things which define what is human and what is life. At some point, the fetus does develop those, which is why the late term (when the fetus is further along and closer to birtt and breathing) abortions should be banned in all instances EXCEPT where a woman will for sure die in childbirth. That decision should only be made by those involved, not people like me yammering on a keyboard or blowhards like Bill O'Reilly.

 

But that's my take anyway, others don't agree as this thread clearly indicates. It hasn't been settled after millions of words elsewhere, I don't expect my words to do anything except inflame others on this board, but there ya have it.

Edited June 17, 2009 by billcoe

[j_b]

I am not reading too much into anything. Your exact words show that you don't seem able to diifferentiate between extremist murderers and peace lovers.

[billcoe]

I am not reading too much into anything. Your exact words show that you don't seem able to diifferentiate between right wing extremist murderers and peace lovers left wing extremist murderous wackos

 

Fixed that quote for you. No, I don't differentiate at all.

[j_b]

I am not reading too much into anything. Your exact words show that you don't seem able to diifferentiate between right wing extremist murderers and peace lovers left wing extremist murderous wackos

 

Fixed that quote for you. No, I don't differentiate at all.

 

and earlier Billcoe said:

you must be doing a poor job at proselytizing for the left wing wackos up there

 

so in other words Billcoe said that I proletyze for the left wing extremist murderous wackos. LOL

 

Do you have any evidence of that or is it one more of your "moderate", "even-handed" intervention here?

[billcoe]

 

Do you have any evidence of that or is it one more of your "moderate", "even-handed" intervention here?

 

Of course not.

[tvashtarkatena]

exactly apples to apples. Why is an act of violence by a Muslin labeled terrorism and an act of violence against an abortion doctor labeled murder? So, FW, should what happened to the abortion dr be labeled terrorism or not? or perhaps you'd like to change the subject again with another diversion.

 

Of course. This act is clearly a case of domestic terrorism. I'll even grant that it's a good deal more repulsive that those Oregon ELF-types burning down laboratories or ski lifts--acts that seem to bring out the chirping crickets with avatars like yours. But if you had bothered to calm your jerking knee you might have taken my comparison at face value. Yes, both the murder of the abortion doc and the islam convert murder of the Army recruiter are terrorism.

 

What constitutes the crime of 'domestic terrorism' exactly, FW? And, if you can come up with the statutory language the defines it, is this good law or bad law?

[j_b]

Although hate crime statistics are highly unreliable, numbers that are available strongly suggest a marked upswing in racially motivated violence against all Latinos, regardless of immigration status. According to hate crime statistics published annually by the FBI, anti-Latino hate crimes rose by almost 35% between 2003 and 2006, the latest year for which statistics are available.

 

Hate Crimes Against Latinos Flourish