Edlinger Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 I was doing a climb recently where some previous climber had left a single bail biner on one of the bolts. I proceeded to clip the single biner and I finished the route. When I was lowered, my belayer replied that it was unsafe. I called horseshit. When I started climbed, sewn quickdraws weren't as common as they are now. We would often clip a single biner or two chained biners to a bolt. Or, if we wanted to shorten out near groundfall distance by nearly a foot on a runout slab or lowball bolted problem, we'd use a single biner. Has anyone ever seen this system fail in real life? I never have. I know it is not as safe as regular draw but come on. Anybody remember that "smith biner" with a half twist? How about the pre-sewn draw that had one side fixed and the other side you had clipped to your harness for a "clip and go" I think it was made by Cassin? Quote
geoff Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 I think it has more to do with rope drag and running a striaght line that is not forced to contact the rock because it is clipped so close. As for biner on biner, isn't it easier for two biners to unclip by accident then it would if using a sling? Quote
rocky_joe Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Definitely better to use a draw (sling). While one biner will do just fine to hold you up, consider the rope drag on the rock and against the hanger itself, not exactly a dream for a sheath. As for two biners together, unless I'm aiding (and even then) I try to avoid it. Especially if you are using d-shaped biners, biner on biner action usually leads to something coming undone. I'd always suggest using a draw whenever possible. Quote
pink Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 it is what it is.... sometimes we run out of draws and slings and BEANERS on lead and some how we get to the top and drink beer at the bottom.... have fun and tell your boyfriend to loosen up his chin strap Quote
hemp22 Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 yeah, i think your belayer had his panties in a bunch. It's certainly not ideal due to the rope drag, etc - but it's safe enough. I've done the single locking-biner on the first bolt on climbs w/ low cruxes. Quote
eldiente Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 Maybe your friend should tell this guy he is being unsafe too with that single binner he is about to clip. [img:left]http://www.8a.nu/images/10/10_633718424605415100_demenciasenil9a_fa.jpg[/img] Quote
genepires Posted March 16, 2009 Posted March 16, 2009 It partly depends on how the rope ran in relation to the carabiner. If in a fall, the rope pushed onto the gate, it could easily come unclipped. I think most people know that little trick with having the gate face away from the direction of travel and having the rope come up through biner instead of going down. If the rope ran in the bad direction and the biner was facing the wrong way, then it would be unsafe. A flexible sling mitigates that risk a bit but a single biner would be locked in place and subject to that problem. There is also a stronger chance of cross loading the biner if it flips over 90 degrees during the climb or as you fly past. As most people know, a cross loaded biner will fail in a lead fall. (ex. Goran in vantage had a biner failure which may have been a cross loaded problem) Once again a good draw will help prevent a cross loading from occuring as the sling may bend and keep the biner loading properly. Is it unsafe? Probably not, I would think is not a good idea. Quote
DirtyHarry Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 The single 'biner clip looks cool and will gain you lots of style points on the climb. Go for it. Quote
Spiral_Out Posted March 17, 2009 Posted March 17, 2009 The economy is bad.. who can afford slings? Quote
marc_leclerc Posted March 18, 2009 Posted March 18, 2009 it is what it is.... sometimes we run out of draws and slings and BEANERS on lead and some how we get to the top and drink beer at the bottom.... You don't truly know the meaning of running out of gear until you start placing spare biners like stoppers in finger cracks... Quote
hancockdn Posted April 24, 2009 Posted April 24, 2009 it's safe. not ideal, but safe. at least it's better than untying and feeding the rope through the hanger. Quote
RuMR Posted April 26, 2009 Posted April 26, 2009 Definitely better to use a draw (sling). While one biner will do just fine to hold you up, consider the rope drag on the rock and against the hanger itself, not exactly a dream for a sheath. As for two biners together, unless I'm aiding (and even then) I try to avoid it. Especially if you are using d-shaped biners, biner on biner action usually leads to something coming undone. I'd always suggest using a draw whenever possible. *cough* bullshit...have you ever seen this? Quote
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