Beacon Rock: Closed as of Sunday Feb. 1st

[ivan]

jesus. fucking. christ.

 

how are these fuckers not the enemy again? where's the good faith? the only goddamn reason they want to close the trails is so they don't have to hike their fucking asses down there to see if anyone's ACTUALLY climbing - resource protection? what a giant crock of shit - the peregines don't give a flying fuck if you're walking around at the base of rock or taking your little kids exploring into the tunnels, both of which are legitimate, enjoyable and non-threatening to the birds

 

i understand and can grudgingly accept the argument for closing the south side to climbing to protect the bird- closing the trail is just mean though, and makes me want to be really mean in return

[JosephH]

jesus. fucking. christ.

 

how are these fuckers not the enemy again? where's the good faith? the only goddamn reason they want to close the trails is so they don't have to hike their fucking asses down there to see if anyone's ACTUALLY climbing - resource protection? what a giant crock of shit - the peregines don't give a flying fuck if you're walking around at the base of rock or taking your little kids exploring into the tunnels, both of which are legitimate, enjoyable and non-threatening to the birds

 

i understand and can grudgingly accept the argument for closing the south side to climbing to protect the bird- closing the trail is just mean though, and makes me want to be really mean in return

 

Oh, the moral outrage! And 'enemy'! Oh, lordy now I'm feeling so victimal all over again - and as predictable as menstral cramps - clearly it's that time of the year again...

 

The trail got closed because they repeatedly had people up under the East Face roofs two winters ago and that closed it.

[rob]

i understand and can grudgingly accept the argument for closing the south side to climbing to protect the bird- closing the trail is just mean though, and makes me want to be really mean in return

 

The trail got closed because they repeatedly had people up under the East Face roofs two winters ago and that closed it.

 

So...if the trail had been closed two winters ago, people wouldn't have decided to illegally climb? "Man, I was totally gonna poach this climb, but then I noticed the TRAIL WAS CLOSED. Damn!"

 

 

 

[kevbone]

jesus. fucking. christ.

 

how are these fuckers not the enemy again? where's the good faith? the only goddamn reason they want to close the trails is so they don't have to hike their fucking asses down there to see if anyone's ACTUALLY climbing - resource protection? what a giant crock of shit - the peregines don't give a flying fuck if you're walking around at the base of rock or taking your little kids exploring into the tunnels, both of which are legitimate, enjoyable and non-threatening to the birds

 

i understand and can grudgingly accept the argument for closing the south side to climbing to protect the bird- closing the trail is just mean though, and makes me want to be really mean in return

 

Oh, the moral outrage! And 'enemy'! Oh, lordy now I'm feeling so victimal all over again - and as predictable as menstral cramps - clearly it's that time of the year again...

 

The trail got closed because they repeatedly had people up under the East Face roofs two winters ago and that closed it.

 

I have to agree with Ivan on this. Its bullshit to close the "HIKING" trail. So by that standard JH....if someone is caught climbing on the NORTH face left of the water fountain......they would close the parking lot? Sounds like someone (the rangers) are getting fat and lazy. Buck up butter cup and hike down there to patrol it.

[JosephH]

Again, the clueless, semi-annual, plaintive whine with the usual mandatory deragatorives from folks who endlessly bitch without ever attempting a substantive dialog that might lead to some actual understanding - god, that must really feel just so great. God forbid you should ever take your head out of the echo chamber long enough for the reverberations to settle down...

 

P.S. I could give a rat's ass about the trail; all I care about is the closure - you want the trail open, you make it happen...

 

P.P.S. I suspect this is all no different than completely uninvolved parents bitching about their kid's history grades a couple of times a year and what a bastard their kid's teacher is...

Edited February 3, 2009 by JosephH

[112]

I really appreciate you efforts Joseph, and I know others who do too.

 

I just thought if the park service really wanted to express their understanding (not that they have to) of how much an asset Beacon really is to climbers , they would have waited to close the south side until Monday to maximize the potential for its use. I am sure the birds wouldn't notice a day or two difference.

 

Thanks everyone for the motivation. My knee appreciates it. But I am sorry to say its true, I can't hang with Dave on skis. Next season I am starting (and possibly staying) in-bounds.

 

 

 

[billcoe]

Ditto what Ken the gimp says on your efforts JH. (Ken, ya go away and 15 min later you're out of shape!) I never heard about people under the East Face last year. Guess I have to get out more. I don't know why people would be climbing over there, or who would be there, but they would be easy to get them down and fine them once you saw them over there. They couldn't go anywhere. To me - closing the trail, so that everyone is penalized, is a bit like closing the bathroom permanently for everyone because some idiot spray painted a gang sign in the men's room. It's a park, there are lots of good apples and an occasional worm in a rotten one. They have thieves break into cars in the parking lot: should the lot be closed just because a single bad apple broke the law? I do not believe so.

 

I have high regard for Erik Plunket, head Ranger. He is professional, smart and hardworking. He's a credit to the park service and we're lucky to have him and not some mean spirited petty tyrant or worse. I'll try and get a free moment and call him later this week to see if we can get the trail open again. I saw this last year and it cranked me, but I didn't say anything, I wish I had. I know that the last time the climbers got all incentivized, they were making trips to Olympia (not that I have time or inclination for this) and talking to the legislators and head folks. They got good results though. However, that was before the internet was invented, and maybe it's just easier to yell on the net about it but not do anything real?

 

If I could make a small recommendation to anyone else considering this idea, and I hope that you all call to discuss it and register an opinion as well: PLEASE, get your shit somewhat together first, and treat Erik with the respect which you would expect and deserve if you were in his shoes (ie, no yelling, slobbering into the phone or making angry mentally challenged type of noises sort of like some of the wording appears to be above:-).

 

The park number is (509) 427-8265

[billcoe]

Re-reading Josephs first post...the crux of repairing this issue is truly what he says, not more, not less. If the birds nest, they nest. If not, then we need to get it together and document it so that Dave Anderson can approve an opening if there is no reason for the closure. Peregrines are truly a unique national treasure. I think perhaps many of you feel that the Fish and Wildlife people go way overboard on this, often act with little or no science behind their reasoning, and that it hits us more than the people who are really tossing Gatoraid bottles down off the trail and potentially killing them, the multitudes of hikers who feel no effect. Sure those folks don't get inconvenienced at all...hmmmm, where was I going...

 

Oh, we need to be on this this winter with scopes and triangulation so that we can pin the location down. Part of the problem is if they fly around the rock they disappear who knows where. I do not believe they were on the south face the last 2 years, but they may have been. Joseph can't do it all himself but he has been. We should put a person on the East and West sides with binocs and scopes and on the top as well. Perhaps Jh or someone can co-ordinate and schedule some folks for this so we have a better picture? If they nest on the South Side, then lets hope they populate to the point where they're as plentiful as the crows are now, and the rock will be open again, or lacking that, if they are not there,it gets opened as well. Now, I have a season ski pass, but wash out early and can be there at 1pm any weekend day.

 

Maybe about March we should be working on something like this?

 

One more thing: the rangers are our allies. They love the park as much or more than we do. They want this park to run smoothly and be open for everyone, including the birds, they have pressures we don't even want to consider. If they need our help in any way, we should not hesitate to give them all that we can if they need it.

 

If our brothers are sneaking under the rope and climbing on the East Side, West side or where ever, lets do an immediate private intervention/reality check with the offender(s) and get that stopped. Stop talking bad about the birds too, even if it's in jest or a moment of anger, they belong here at least as much as we do, and they need our help.

[ivan]

i had a much higher opinion of the rangers until i got bitch-fucked by them, and you used the word "victim" joe, not me - they may love the park, but as pointed out, closing the trail to prevent poaching is like closing the highways to prevent bankrobberies or speeding and it comes across as needless and petty

 

i have not been uninvolved in making a relationship w/ the rangers joe, nor do i endlessly shit-talk about them - i said above i can grudingly accept a closure - and being angry & bitching about it is therapeutic if nothing else

 

don't you think you, at some level at least, enjoy the maelstrom joe? you post these notices every year and can't have helped but deduce that they're chum to sharks - folks don't really need this website to spread the word about the closure - all the guide-books have it front and center and, as the picture above shows, the park has made it pretty obvious when you pull in (they could put a friendly sign pointing towards the n side as the alternate to soften the "achtung-juden!" feel of the current setup and give folks a semi-realistic option other than poaching or driving back home all pissed off - directions posted at the same place to the ozone could also be a positive)

 

i don't like being angry - i'm not a fool or an idiot - its rational to be vexed though when something you love is taken from you, whatever the reason

[Cobra_Commander]

Why the hell does the trail need to be open? Do you guys still go down there and stare at the routes with binoculars all winter? I love Beacon, but I like a lot of things. If there are birds there, let them be. It's a big place we live, and there are other places to go and things to do. Go check it out.

[kevbone]

Why the hell does the trail need to be open?

 

Why does the trail need to be closed?

[Cobra_Commander]

Maybe because they don't want people screwing around down there? I don't know, and I don't really care if I can't climb on the rock. Do climbers go down there to sit by the tracks and listen to the blissful whisper of BNSF's finest, reminiscing about how sweet lap 1034 of the SE corner was? Maybe ponder how to pile little handfuls of dirt on a tree that is going to die soon, no matter what you do to it? Maybe have a summit conference in the winter poison oak about whether webbing lasts longer than chains?

 

Why don't you diplomatically ask them for an explanation why you can no longer hike on the "trail" like I'm sure you used to do many times when it was open but you couldn't climb on it?

 

"Hey guys, screw climbing anywhere else, let's go hike the beacon climbers' access trail!"

[JosephH]

...its rational to be vexed though when something you love is taken from you, whatever the reason...

 

I understand, and this is generally when I repeat that - no one is more bummed about the closure, or wants it removed more than I do. My response though, like in climbing when things are going south, is to try and get as rational as possible, stay focused, and work the problem.

[kevbone]

I think the most important issue is the fact that the entire closure is BULLSHIT. Close the rock to a user group that is like maybe 50 strong. But leave it open to the hundred of thousand who use it. Why am I the only one to see this? THE BIRDS ARE NOT ENDANGERED ANYMORE. Peregrines nest on most of the skyscrapers in downtown Portland. They nest on the Freemont Bridge. Do the skyscrapers close down? Does the bridges close down? I know….I know….the rangers at the park level have nothing to do about it. I know that my one voice has no power. I also bitching about it on the interweb will do nothing. It still feels good (just like JH said). I love birds. But this particular closer is BULLSHIT through and through. Every piece of it. Do they even have the legal right to act upon a random bird? Did I mention that Peregrines are not endangered anymore? I climbed out there before they started closing the rock. That was back when they were endangered and the birds nested successfully every year. The climbers and the birds all got along just fine.

 

CC tell us to “if there are birds there, let them be”…..I don’t see you at the trail head every weekend with a sign trying to get 99% of the user group to stop hiking on the rock.

 

I don’t think anyone gets it. If someone blatantly shot all the birds at Beacon in front of all the rangers and confirmed there was NO Peregrines there anymore. They would still close the rock….for old times sake. It would give them something to look forward too…….

 

A big thanks to Joe for putting his personal time in to jump through the hoops. Did I mention peregrines are not endangered anymore?

 

Joseph….for a guy who is an incredibly liberal thinker…..you sure are one conservative bro in terms of rock climbing. Not that that is a bad thing….its just weird.

[DavidHiers]

This can't be a new idea, but I'll toss it out there anyway...

 

The Forest Service has had some success with artificial nest ledges for raptors, and peregrines are known for using artificial structures.

 

http://elibrary.unm.edu/sora/jrr/v014n02/p00046-p00050.pdf

 

I'm no fan of redlining, but maybe the birds would be more comfortable on a rock that isn't crawling with hoard of screaming tourists.

 

Who knows, their numbers might even increase with some styling cribs nailed to Mt. Hamilton's loose munge.

[Cobra_Commander]

I wholeheartedly agree to open the place if there are _no_ birds, but if there are any at all, I'm happy to avoid completely screwing over their lives so I can get yet another run on something out there when I can easily go some place else and come back when the birds are done with what has been theirs for thousands of years. The pigeons at Smith get along fine with climbers around, but falcons do not.

 

If they are closing for no reason, or out of "tradition" (which I find hard to understand or believe), well that's another story.

[G-spotter]

It's just Washington's way of fucking Oregon over.

[kevbone]

I'm happy to avoid completely screwing over there lives

 

 

Should others avoid it also?

[ivan]

The pigeons at Smith get along fine with climbers around, but falcons do not.

 

.

i understand it's all just yammering in the breeze, but the falcons get along fine w/ climbers i have no doubt, so long as we don't climb through their nests - so, um, okay, that means big ledge is out.

 

of course i go plenty of other places when the rock is closed, but it's still the best place close in to portland, and i guess i'm just a hopped up goof-ball, but i don't get nearly the same feeling anywhere else (plus, and i hate always whining about money, i can't really afford to regularly be driving to smith or even hood) - for chrissakes, maybe the salmon-negroes had something right? beacon's a pretty magical/religous/praise-gaia-n'-piss-on-her-prom-dress-kinda place, and being able to go down to the main face anytime of year, even just to chill w/ my toddlers around the tunnels, shouldn't require rationalization.

 

blech.

[Cobra_Commander]

sure, I didn't know anyone here actually went down on that trail once you couldn't climb on the rock it accessed, so I didn't see why people were complaining. there are just so many other places to go, even in the gorge. hamilton mountain, for one, is pretty cool.

 

I don't think it's realistic to have climbers self-govern which routes they go on, unless the park could close half the face (like young warriors open, pipeline area closed type of thing). And climbers out there have a hard time controlling how much shouting they do and in general impact a much larger area than just the route they are on.

 

 

[JosephH]

I think the most important issue is the fact that the entire closure is BULLSHIT. Close the rock to a user group that is like maybe 50 strong. But leave it open to the hundred of thousand who use it.

Correct - it is bullshit, the tourist trail should be closed as well. But that's not in WSP or WDFW's control as explained endlessly twice a year for four or five years.

 

Why am I the only one to see this? THE BIRDS ARE NOT ENDANGERED ANYMORE.

Incorrect - they are no longer listed on the ESL, which means they are now judged to be no longer in danger of extinction. That does not mean they are not 'endangered' across much of their current range. They are also probably out to 2015-17 before recovering their natural range, though our new fondness for wind farms aren't helping that recovery as I understand it (though I have a request into David for Peregrine fatality rates at the wind farms he's done EIS's for).

 

Peregrines nest on most of the skyscrapers in downtown Portland. They nest on the Freemont Bridge. Do the skyscrapers close down? Does the bridges close down? I know….I know….the rangers at the park level have nothing to do about it.

Incorrect - "nest on most of the skyscrapers in downtown" - you're kidding right? Do a little research on Peregrine territoriality and rethink that one. I'll check on the number of nesting pairs downtown, but I'd be amazed to find out it was more than two or three tops. And while they get seeded in many boxes in downtowns across the nation - the mortality rate of any resulting chicks is very high in all urban areas.

 

I love birds. But this particular closer is BULLSHIT through and through. Every piece of it.

Incorrect - Beacon has likely been a Peregrine eyrie longer than humans have been in the Gorge and long before climbing. Beacon has been a steady performer relative to breeding pairs being successful there. You clearly couldn't give a rats ass about the Peregrines and you've made it endlessly clear you'd be just as happy if there were no Peregrines there. I personally think that prospect would be a drag.

 

That was back when they were endangered and the birds nested successfully every year. The climbers and the birds all got along just fine.

Correct - except for that year climbers destroyed the eggs / nest...

 

If someone blatantly shot all the birds at Beacon in front of all the rangers and confirmed there was NO Peregrines there anymore. They would still close the rock….for old times sake. It would give them something to look forward too.

Incorrect - this is the same old relentless venom of a lost youth that has obstructed even the possibility of ever lifting the closure.

 

Joseph….for a guy who is an incredibly liberal thinker…..you sure are one conservative bro in terms of rock climbing. Not that that is a bad thing….its just weird.

Kevin...for a guy who claims to be incredibly liberal, you are one conservative bro in terms of the environment when it happens to impact your sandbox. And for a guy married to a lawyer you seem incredibly impervious to how things work. You can remain blinded and ineffective by old emotions, even though it really contributes nothing beyond upping your post count, or you can take risks and attempt to change things. Hell, you're married to way more legal resources than I've ever had at my disposal.

[JosephH]

Re-reading Josephs first post...the crux of repairing this issue is truly what he says, not more, not less. If the birds nest, they nest. If not, then we need to get it together and document it so that Dave Anderson can approve an opening if there is no reason for the closure. Peregrines are truly a unique national treasure. I think perhaps many of you feel that the Fish and Wildlife people go way overboard on this, often act with little or no science behind their reasoning, and that it hits us more than the people who are really tossing Gatoraid bottles down off the trail and potentially killing them, the multitudes of hikers who feel no effect. Sure those folks don't get inconvenienced at all...hmmmm, where was I going...

 

Oh, we need to be on this this winter with scopes and triangulation so that we can pin the location down. Part of the problem is if they fly around the rock they disappear who knows where. I do not believe they were on the south face the last 2 years, but they may have been. Joseph can't do it all himself but he has been. We should put a person on the East and West sides with binocs and scopes and on the top as well. Perhaps Jh or someone can co-ordinate and schedule some folks for this so we have a better picture? If they nest on the South Side, then lets hope they populate to the point where they're as plentiful as the crows are now, and the rock will be open again, or lacking that, if they are not there,it gets opened as well. Now, I have a season ski pass, but wash out early and can be there at 1pm any weekend day.

 

Maybe about March we should be working on something like this?

 

One more thing: the rangers are our allies. They love the park as much or more than we do. They want this park to run smoothly and be open for everyone, including the birds, they have pressures we don't even want to consider. If they need our help in any way, we should not hesitate to give them all that we can if they need it.

 

If our brothers are sneaking under the rope and climbing on the East Side, West side or where ever, lets do an immediate private intervention/reality check with the offender(s) and get that stopped. Stop talking bad about the birds too, even if it's in jest or a moment of anger, they belong here at least as much as we do, and they need our help.

 

What Bill has said here.

 

The Peregrines have tried to use the Big Ledge scrape (nest) at the start of each of the past four years and we are pretty sure failed each time only to succeed somewhere nearby for three of those four years, and failing one of them. From the fall before last through this entire past season the Peregrines and their chicks have shown great affinity for the East Face and I believe they may have nested on the left side of the high tower as you look up from the parking lot - essentially just around the corner out-of-sight from the left skyline.

 

Neither I nor David know why they have not been successful on Big Ledge, but year after year that is where they always try to nest first. To be honest it's a mystery, as it would seem perfect for them. Could be Owls, could be almost anything - that's the way the science goes though - as Bill said, sometimes you just don't end up knowing.

 

Ranger Ben was all onboard for learning to do the monitoring when I spoke with him about it today, he wants it open to climb as well. Like I said, who knows, maybe the stars will line up this year. Until then I'd say climb elsewhere or if you must be at Beacon then get some binoculars and learn to monitor (it's not easy as it sounds).

[pink]

It's just Washington's way of fucking Oregon over.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/3719760.stm

 

 

just britons way of fucking canada over.

[pink]

falcons r whiny little bitches....hmm, i wonder how long climbers were coexisting out at beacon before the wildlife brathas and sistas were informed of their presence.

 

 

[kevbone]

Joseph. What do you think would happen if the bird decided to nest on top of Beacon? Say 20 feet from the top on the east side. Would the WSP close the hiking trail then? How close do the birds have to nest to the trail of thousands before the WSP takes the tourists threat seriously?

 

I am all for the birds and the closure if I thought it were done in a constructive manner. But to close “just the south face” to 1% of the user group is totally ludicrous. It makes no sense. This is why I call the entire process/thinking/closure total bullshit. If the state REALLY gave a serious shit about these birds….they would do the responsible thing and close the ENTIRE rock. I can see and have always seen that we will not agree on this. That is OK and this is a fine forum to discuss our disagreements.

 

Have a mentioned a big thanks to you for going out to monitor out little friends?