PhöQ Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 You need a third choice for ppl like me. "Ethereal, intangible, energy force." I cant say I don't believe in something, but by just labeling it "God" conjures up images of an old chubby bearded white guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Very interesting pole so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Careful. You may end up being accused of using pechuli oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike1 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 You need a third choice for ppl like me. "Ethereal, intangible, energy force." I cant say I don't believe in something, but by just labeling it "God" conjures up images of an old chubby bearded white guy. A higher power? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhöQ Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 A higher power? I don't like using that either, I feel that if you can define it or describe it then it just becomes an "idol" worshipping kind of thing. Some things are best just left to the internal dialog. Kind of like my take on religion, it's really too personal to bring up with others. Most world religions are in fact just big clubs for ppl that cant think for themselves and need to have a central figure to validate their existence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) Considering the tiny scale of human existence in the grander scheme of things, it's not too much of a stretch to recognize that there are many 'higher powers' out there, in a literal sense, anyway. Or a 'higher power' can be a basis for moral choices that are larger than oneself. A respect and stewardship for nature, love for one's fellows, all and any of this kind of thing could be a 'higher power'. I don't go in too much for the 'if you name it you spoil it' fuzzy thinking, however. I think it strengthens one's moral decisionmaking by explicitly recognizing, to the extent possible, from where one derives that morality. When I hear things like 'energy fields' and 'life force' I start to think about how much clumsily we borrow language from fields we haven't studied to describe feelings we can't define because we haven't bothered to take the journey to do so. That stuff sounds trite and cliche to me; the kind of spirituality one might order on Ebay. Edited December 9, 2008 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhöQ Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Exactly! Hence the reason I hate even trying to put it into words. Beliefs like that are internal dialog only stuff IMHO, its impossible to verbalize without making it "ebay" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 It's smelling more and more like northern California in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhöQ Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 It's smelling more and more like northern California in here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pc313 Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bug Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Peace out. Wake me up when it gets really cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Wake up bug....you are missing the cool part! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lI1|1! Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Many times when I am troubled or confused, I find comfort in sitting in my back yard and having a Bourbon and Coke along with a quiet conversation with Jesus. This happened to me again after a particularly difficult day. I said "Jesus, why do I work so hard?" And I heard the reply: "Men find many ways to demonstrate the love they have for their family. You work hard to have a peaceful, beautiful place for your friends and family to gather." I said: "I thought that money was the root of all evil." And the reply was: "No, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money is a tool; it can be used for good or bad". I was starting to feel better, but I still had that one burning question, so I asked it. "Jesus," I said, "What is the meaning of life? Why am I here?" He replied," That is a question many men ask. The answer is in your heart and is different for everyone. I would love to chat with you some more, Senor, but for now, I have to finish your lawn." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Many times when I am troubled or confused, I find comfort in sitting in my back yard and having a Bourbon and Coke along with a quiet conversation with Jesus. This happened to me again after a particularly difficult day. I said "Jesus, why do I work so hard?" And I heard the reply: "Men find many ways to demonstrate the love they have for their family. You work hard to have a peaceful, beautiful place for your friends and family to gather." I said: "I thought that money was the root of all evil." And the reply was: "No, the LOVE of money is the root of all evil. Money is a tool; it can be used for good or bad". I was starting to feel better, but I still had that one burning question, so I asked it. "Jesus," I said, "What is the meaning of life? Why am I here?" He replied," That is a question many men ask. The answer is in your heart and is different for everyone. I would love to chat with you some more, Senor, but for now, I have to finish your lawn." many men have met jesus in the back of a squad car Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Peace out. Wake me up when it gets really cool. I never really got an explanation of how the mind over matter bullshit I grew up with in N.Cal was any different from your Master Chuan fog lifting, lineman tipping stories. Your lingo sounds pretty much exactly the same to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 (edited) I guess what differentiates me from the Bugs of the world, aside from a thorax and antennae, is that I'm prefectly satisfied with how mysterious, beautiful, and interesting the world is as it is, rather than adding layer after layer of spirits, superpowers, unseen, enexplainable forces, and the like. All that crap just gets in the way of my more directly connecting with the off the rack universe we find ourselves in. I'm comfortable with unexplained phenomenon, but I don't see the need for unexplainable phenomenon (um...how could we possibly know that something is unexplainable, anyway?). "It's BEYOND OUR UNDERSTANDING!" You mean, forever, no matter how future generations find ways to study it? How can that be? After all, didn't WE make all this unexplainable shit up in the first place? I think the addition of all this mysticism connotes a dissatisfaction with our world as it is. Well, I'm amazed by our world, not dissatisfied with it, so I see no need to seek amazement by trying to transform human created myth into reality. The frequent counter, from Bug, anyway, is "Oh, you just worship science. How droll. How boring. Plus, it's just a religion, too"; as if The Non-religious (read that to mean 'Unenlightened Ones' walk through nature's splendor and see only equations, kind of like reading Matrix code. Such comments are so patently ridiculous that they require no counterargument. Edited December 9, 2008 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bradleym Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 double dark works for me. take that any way you like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markwebster Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I was raised a presbyterian, and come from a long line of missionaries. They went to china in 1860 to save the heathens from the fires of hell. In high school I was going through church confirmation when I happened to fall in love with my classmate Devi Unsoeld, whose father was Willi Unsoeld, the world famous mountaineer. Over a series of dates at the Unsoeld house, where I saw Willi's toes in a jar (lost them on Everest in '63), Willi convinced me that Buddhism made as much sense as Christianity. He was philosophy professor at Evergreen college and very friendly and persuasive. And Devi was so beautiful. When I confronted my family with the conflict in logic, they said I had to trust in God. Being of an inquiring mind, that wasn't good enuf. I believe in things I can see. Now I believe in worms. You die, the worms get you. Sorry if that sounds harsh. The world is still a cool place, but I don't think it's any bigger than what you see right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-spotter Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Science is a vaccination against the god-meme which sometimes works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 Jesus Built My Hot-Rod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 Little Carol came into the kitchen where her mother was making dinner. Her birthday was coming up and she thought this was a good time to tell her mother what she wanted. "Mom, I want a bike for my birthday". Now, Little Carol was a bit of a troublemaker. She had gotten into trouble at school and at home. Carol's mother asked her if she thought she deserved to get a bike for her birthday. Little Carol, of course, thought she did. Carol's mother, being a Christian woman, wanted her to reflect on her behavior over the last year, and write a letter to God and tell him why she deserved a bike for her birthday. Little Carol stomped up the steps to her room and sat down to write God a letter. LETTER 1: Dear God: I have been a very good girl this year and I would like a bike for my birthday. I want a red one. Your friend, Carol Carol knew this wasn't true. She had not been a very good girl this year, so she tore up the letter and started over. LETTER 2: Dear God: This is your friend Carol. I have been a pretty good girl this year, and I would like a red bike for my birthday. Thank you, Carol Carol knew this wasn't true either. She tore up the letter and started again. LETTER 3: Dear God: I know I haven't been a good girl this year. I am very sorry. I will be a good girl if you just send me a red bike for my birthday. Thank you, Carol Carol knew, even if it was true, this letter was not going to get her a bike. By now, she was very upset. She went downstairs and told her mother she wanted to go to church. Carol's mother thought her plan had worked because Carol looked very sad. "Just be home in time for dinner." her mother said. Carol walked down the street to the church and up to the altar. She looked around to see if anyone was there. She picked up a statue of the Virgin Mary, slipped it under her jacket and ran out of the church, down the street, into her house, and up to her room. She shut the door and sat down and wrote her letter to God. LETTER 4: I GOT YOUR MAMA. IF YOU WANT TO SEE HER AGAIN, SEND THE BIKE. Signed, YOU KNOW WHO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 ah, the wonderous fiduciary relationship between man and invisible-man-in-bathrobe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivan Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 isn't the current pt spread betwee g and no g the same as the one between obama and mccain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevbone Posted December 9, 2008 Author Share Posted December 9, 2008 hheeeee....you said "spread" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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