A Proud Day to Be American?

[ivan]

I can't decide - at some point you can't unfuck the fuck-up, eh?

[Hugh Conway]

a coworker was very worried about this. She's scared they are going to attack Lynwood.

[ivan]

say you were innocent - now say you were held in 7 years by a nation of fucktards that didn't care - now say they let you out - why WOULDN'T you want to get some revenge?

[Hugh Conway]

I'm more stuck trying to figure out why people think terrorists would waste their existence attacking suburban sprawl. Blowup Bestbuy? Poison a PFChangs?

[prole]

say you were innocent - now say you were held in 7 years by a nation of fucktards that didn't care - now say they let you out - why WOULDN'T you want to get some revenge?

 

Torture as a radicalizing force in those who were not previously militant is a pretty well understood and documented phenomena. The torture of al-Zawahiri and others during their imprisonment in Egypt is recognized as a seminal moment in the founding of al-Quaeda, for example.

[pc313]

I don't know if Dr. al-Zawahiri was tortured but was held and interviewed I've seen the film,but thats the problem with imprisonment, some poeple will extract some kind of vengeance!

With 1.2 million in U.S. prisions and 10+ % innocent and no one cares we are going to see some pissed off mother fuckers when they get out!

Edited November 21, 2008 by pc313

[G-spotter]

Look at all the revenge the unjustly jailed Nelson Mandela exacted on South Africa, eh?

[General Zod]

say you were innocent - now say you were held in 7 years by a nation of fucktards that didn't care - now say they let you out - why WOULDN'T you want to get some revenge?

 

Torture as a radicalizing force in those who were not previously militant is a pretty well understood and documented phenomena. The torture of al-Zawahiri and others during their imprisonment in Egypt is recognized as a seminal moment in the founding of al-Quaeda, for example.

 

John McCain says his torture in the Hanoi Hilton defined him and his political career. So yes, you are correct sir.

 

 

[tvashtarkatena]

say you were innocent - now say you were held in 7 years by a nation of fucktards that didn't care - now say they let you out - why WOULDN'T you want to get some revenge?

 

Torture as a radicalizing force in those who were not previously militant is a pretty well understood and documented phenomena. The torture of al-Zawahiri and others during their imprisonment in Egypt is recognized as a seminal moment in the founding of al-Quaeda, for example.

 

John McCain says his torture in the Hanoi Hilton defined him and his political career. So yes, you are correct sir.

 

 

They tortured him, he came back and tortured us.

[prole]

They tortured him, he came back and tortured us.

 

[video:youtube]

[ivan]

Look at all the revenge the unjustly jailed Nelson Mandela exacted on South Africa, eh?

 

i think most folks would acknowledge mandela is a remarkable man, and not the sort of person to compare the rest of the world to though - he also got his revenge, in a sense, by winning (seeing apartheid destroyed and becoming president) - if he'd been pardoned or released a decade earlier, when teh bad guys were still in power, who's to say he wouldn't have become a violent terrorist?

[Hugh Conway]

who's to say he wouldn't have become a violent terrorist?

 

He was the leader of the ANC's armed wing Umkhonto we Sizwe and lead a bombing campaign. Mandela was a violent terrorist.

[billcoe]

Look at all the revenge the unjustly jailed Nelson Mandela exacted on South Africa, eh?

 

i think most folks would acknowledge mandela is a remarkable man, and not the sort of person to compare the rest of the world to though - he also got his revenge, in a sense, by winning (seeing apartheid destroyed and becoming president) - if he'd been pardoned or released a decade earlier, when teh bad guys were still in power, who's to say he wouldn't have become a violent terrorist?

 

So you are suggesting it was a good thing he was kept locked up. hmmmm, ok.

[mkporwit]

Well, it did allow him to mature into a powerful proponent of non-violence and quickly bring about apartheid's downfall, so some good came of it.

[ivan]

who's to say he wouldn't have become a violent terrorist?

 

He was the leader of the ANC's armed wing Umkhonto we Sizwe and lead a bombing campaign. Mandela was a violent terrorist.

yeah, i knew that

 

bill, i don't knwo that i;m suggesting anything other than that we make our own monsters when we imprison folks who have done nothing wrong

[billcoe]

I don't think there is an absolute Black or White to the thing Ivan, and you just reinforced it. I hate to see us acting in ways that are the opposite of what we think our self image is. ie, gracious, helpful and friendly. Yet our overseas actions are full of such horseshit, to the point that you probably couldn't list it all the list is so long. Carter, to his credit, tried to reign in our foreign excess's and failed.

 

Looking at Obamas list of appointees, I don't suppose it will change, but it would be nice if they closed Guantanamo and still kept the few who truly would be dangerous out of action.

 

It was only last June that the supreme court ruled they have access to due process http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article ...can't say how that's been going, but I know they have been releasing some.

 

It's a confusing mish mash in that there truly are innocent people there, who's names were given in a duplicitous manner by other Afghans to further their political reasons. And there have been plenty of instances of detainees released from Guantanamo who have returned right back to the [Afghan] battlefield to kill Americans.

 

I suspect that the Obama admin will just have some of these dudes merely transferred to Afgan prisons so he can still claim Gitmo is closed.