What am I missing?

[Peter_Puget]

Winter is coming and I need to get winter workout plans figured out. I have the basics figured out but I am looking for that "forgotten" something that is missing. Any suggestions? Courtenay, What do climbers most often forget to incorporate into their workout?

[Courtenay]

Peter, this is such an excellent topic. And the answer depends entirely on one's individual short- and long-term goals and adventures of choice. For more on this, check out two articles on our Body Results websites related to figuring out the different fitness characteristics that go into the climbing sub-categories (http://www.bodyresults.com/E3FitnessPolygon.asp) as well as snow-sports like skiing and boarding(http://www.bodyresults.com/S2SnowPolygon.asp). Then, look at your weaknesses (we have an article just out on our latest free on-line newsletter: off-season training and refining your program: (http://www.bodyresults.com/E2OffSeasonTraining.asp) that can help as well.

 

As to specifics, the biggest mistake I see is people forgetting about strength training -- they build until June, go out and climb all summer, then seem to go into hibernation until January (or October, until ski season starts) and have to build all over again from scratch. If instead they had a maintenance/build program from October to January, they'd find that each and every year they get stronger, faster, and more adept at their chosen sport. Hope that all helps.

[MITllama02]

Courtenay (or anyone else): if I am going for a climb every weekend, do I still need to do aerobics during the week? My weekend climbs are mostly scrambles, occasionally just a hike, and that means 9-16 miles in one day or 20-24 miles over two days plus the actual climb, in the Pacific NW. I do upper and lower body strength training during the week (45 - 60 min per session for one or the other) and one day is set aside for interval training (carrying a pack + 4 gal water up a long stair case 191 steps, going 2 steps at a time, for about an hour). I try to fit in aerobics at low heart rate (ie 125-150; my max is 184) in 30-60 min sessions, but the total training is taking up a lot of time during work days.

[Courtenay]

MITLlama, I'd say that depends on WHY you do your cardio -- if you feel great when you're out in the mountains, then your current routine is probably perfect. If you do it to help with weight reduction, that's something else. If you feel you need to increase your speed, then maybe another targeted cardio workout to work towards that goal (interval training, such as running up hills) would help. If you feel fine with a light pack but anything over 30 makes you slow way down, then a hill/stairclimb workout with "over-weight" (more than you'd carry in the mountains) might help. All depends on your goals and your satisfaction with where you are. Get it?

[Cpt.Caveman]

It wont hurt to get some exercise during the middle of the weak. GIve your muscles time to rest before the weekeend to feel at your peak then though. Those sound like good exercises to me.

 

I dont think Flash Amazing gets it.

[Peter_Puget]

Wow! Courtenay your site is really nice. Lots of good info. Like the 6/1 6/1 6/1 pullup scheme. After reviewing the info on the site I decided that my biggest deficiencies are core strength and just plain climbing poorly. So to best address these twin evils I am going to go to the climbing gym and do some core/body balancing exercises. I think two days a week at the climbing gym is all I can muster but the regular gym is easier to schedule in. How many days a week should I dedicate to the regular gym (ie is one time going to do anything?)? And does 20' of some kind of cardio workout do much of anything? All this workign out can be hard to schedule!

[Courtenay]

Thanks, Peter. I found the 616161 scheme worked quite well for me, see how it works for you and report back (you can use it for pullups, bench press, squats, whatever.) 2x/week at the climbing gym is plenty -- remember, because there's no approach, setting up anchors, etc. like in alpine climbing, you run the risk of climbing too MUCH at the gym since it takes all of a minute to switch belayers and go again. I've seen many an injury to tendons from people who dive into 3-4x/week indoors without considering the differences. And 2x20 minutes of intense interval cardio (you can put one of those with a climbing day) along with the rest of your weekend outings should suffice--again depending on your body's weaknesses and your goals.

[Gary_Yngve]

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter Puget:

Wow! Courtenay your site is really nice. Lots of good info. Like the 6/1 6/1 6/1 pullup scheme.

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I need to find a better way to strap weights to me. A few years ago, I put a 30 lb weight into a daypack and jumped for the pullup bar. The zipper instantly ripped and the weight came crashing to the ground, as everyone in the gym turned to look at me...

[Courtenay]

Gary, you can buy (relatively inexpensively) a belt specifically designed for that -- biners and sturdy straps -- so you can hang weight from your hips rather than on your shoulders (as in the case of the backpack) OR without any further investment, use something like ropes (soft, bulky and heavy) that won't pop out of the pack.

[Peter_Puget]

Gary try a weight belt from a diving supply shop. (down side is youhave to use diving weights) Or better get an old tie-in style waist strap from a harness. Thread webbing thru the weight and the tie in loops and let the weight hang between your legs. Worked great for me.

 

PP

[thelawgoddess]

or just use a better pack. i see people using packs at vw.

[sexual_chocolate]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Yngve:

quote:

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Originally posted by Peter Puget:

Wow! Courtenay your site is really nice. Lots of good info. Like the 6/1 6/1 6/1 pullup scheme.

---

I need to find a better way to strap weights to me. A few years ago, I put a 30 lb weight into a daypack and jumped for the pullup bar. The zipper instantly ripped and the weight came crashing to the ground, as everyone in the gym turned to look at me...

---

You can buy a weight vest. Everlast makes a good one that packs on 40 lbs. You can climb in it comfortably.

 

Mine might be for sale....

[Mr._Chips]

ever thinkabout just getting outside for a bike ride or a brisk walk or run. so many climbers are looking for the 'solutions' to their problems of being out of shape, a little more effort and not so much worrying and discussing it.

[texplorer]

I would say most climbers forget to include opposing muscle group exercises in their routines. Everyone seems to want to do more pullups and work the flexors of the hand and fingers. More emphasis should be given to opposing groups to balance your body and help prevent injury.

 

On the other hand most of climbing is technique and not power. I just got back from a trip in which I was climbing harder than I ever have to find that my overall strength in the weightroom was down by about 1/2 from 6months before when I was lifting regularly.

 

As far as cardiovascular training goes; the more you do the greater the benefit you will see. However, your body can only take so much and your performance will start to drop if you do not allow for ample rest time. A typical program is to train every other day or train six days a week alternating intense session with easy sessions.

 

Texplorer - not a CSCS

[Courtenay]

Absolutely correctamundo, Texplorer sans CSCS,

 

working finger extensors (vs. flexors), rhomboids (horizontal pulling vs. lats=vertical pulling) and triceps (vs. biceps) in the upper body is quite important at all times, not just off-season, to help keep muscles in balance and help ward off overuse injuries. It's also a good time to include some rotator cuff exercises or overhead presses to help preserve the integrity of the shoulders. Core strength (abs, obliques and lower back) can also be developed effectively off-season. And sorry if the "CSCS" offends, it's part of my automatic sig on this board.

[fern]

quote:

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Originally posted by Courtenay:

rhomboids (horizontal pulling vs. lats=vertical pulling)

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I don't know what rhomboids are. Do you mean horizontal pulling like you would with a rowing machine?

[Figger_Eight]

Rhomboids (not to be confused with hemorroids) are the muscles that connect your scapula to your vertebrae. They are responsible for retracting your shoulders back along a horizontal plane (rows) and also assist in pulling in the vertical plane (pullups).

[Courtenay]

Yes, seated rows with arms out at a right angle (i.e. like a "T" to your torso) and torso perpendicular to the floor. You can also target the specific muscles by doing a simple exercise at home that does not require any gear, called the wall reverse pushup (or "corner pushup") at our web site: http://www.bodyresults.com/E2cornerpushups.asp You can also do seated rope rows, arms high, as pictured at http://www.bodyresults.com/S2Climb10e.asp in the corner pushup section as a diagnostic test.

 

[ 10-05-2002, 06:31 PM: Message edited by: Courtenay ]

[eric8]

Another good execerise for the Rhomboids is the bent over row. Free weights are much better than machines if you use good form.

[Peter_Puget]

So I am guessing seated cable rows woudl be good for these guys (Rhomboids) My questions are:

 

1 Should back remain at 90degrees to the plane of the floor.

 

2 What grip/handles are best.

 

Thanks

 

PP

[Courtenay]

You can do bent over rows with a barbell OR dumbbells (1-arm OR 2-arm); bent rows with a barbell will also require lower back strength to hold the position still; 1-arm rows you can do with a hand and knee on a bench; play around with next-to-the-side 1-arm rows, and also 90 degree (1/2 "T") rows out away from the body to really target the rhomboids.

[eric8]

Courtney got it. Main point (should have explained it better) was that free weights are better then machines. This is because they require you to stabilize your body while lifting so your low back, abs, etc. also get work. Just make sure to use good form to many people move back and forth or up and down, negatting the point of free weights and leading to injury.

[Peter_Puget]

Eric -

 

Do you mean with a large bar or a dumbbell?

[Figger_Eight]

quote:

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...free weights are better then machines. This is because they require you to stabilize your body while lifting so your low back, abs, etc. also get work.

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Well...not necessarily. Compare a one-armed seated row on a cable machine to a one armed bent-over row with a dumbbell. With the freeweight exercise, you're posting the arm that isn't lifting the weight effectively stabilizing the upper body. With the cable machine exercise, the muscles in your torso bear the brunt of keeping your upper body in position.

 

Another tip for your rhomboids is to imagine cracking an egg with your shoulder blades every time you do an exercise. This completes the contraction.

[Courtenay]

Actually, both the cable and free weight options will in general be better choices than something like a torso-supported Universal, Nautilus, or other type machine row with fixed metal supports. The key is to make the exercise use as much of the musculature as possible, in a movement pattern similar to what you may need it for in :real life: --heck, even getting up under a low pullup bar or a bar positioned low (i.e. hip level) in a squat rack will allow you to do what I call a "horizontal pullup" for the rhomboids, with feet on the floor or a bench for added difficulty. And I often use the "crack the egg" analogy for anyone having a difficult time getting the rhomboids to fire. Seems a lot of people are great at using arms and lats, but don't quite have the feel for the mid-back muscles firing...