[TR] Beacon Rawk - The Bar 9/20/2008

[billcoe]

I remember those bolts.....and I remember them getting axed....

What were the tickets for?

 

Gross stupidity?

 

I don't know. I like Gordon, good guy.

 

 

What Ivan said above rings true to me as well. It's special spot, with a long tradition of not having that kind of thing there.

 

 

I know you told me that you were not ever going to do this yourself as you were so busy with kids and all, and were just argueing for it, but it seems to me there's better spots, close by yet very remote and have hardly a soul there, where a long fall on poor rock would be a serious endeavor, that are better for that than Beacon. Like these. Or find some others.

 

 

 

 

[kevbone]

I remember those bolts.....and I remember them getting axed....

What were the tickets for?

 

Gross stupidity?

 

I don't know. I like Gordon, good guy.

 

 

What Ivan said above rings true to me as well. It's special spot, with a long tradition of not having that kind of thing there.

 

 

I would like to know why they gave him tickets if anyone knows for sure.

 

You are right Bill.....I am out of the game and will not be putting any routes up anytime soon....but, there are bolts ALL over Beacon Rock.....to make the argument that my bolts that I would put in are not welcome when there Beacon is covered in them is a week argument.

[denalidave]

I remember those bolts.....and I remember them getting axed....

What were the tickets for?

 

Gross stupidity?

 

I don't know. I like Gordon, good guy.

 

 

What Ivan said above rings true to me as well. It's special spot, with a long tradition of not having that kind of thing there.

 

 

I would like to know why they gave him tickets if anyone knows for sure.

 

You are right Bill.....I am out of the game and will not be putting any routes up anytime soon....but, there are bolts ALL over Beacon Rock.....to make the argument that my bolts that I would put in are not welcome when there Beacon is covered in them is a week argument.

I think the bolts that are there are "grandfathered in", so to speak. Plenty of great climbs at Beacon without getting worked about the desire to put in more bolts. Like Bill said, if you really have to get your bolt fix, go find one of the many undeveloped crags and bolt away. Seems like you are just trolling here, especially since you have already admitted you have no plans or time to do any route developing.

 

BTW, nice to meet you on Saturday. Good luck with the new baby.

[denalidave]

Nate, good job on the send...

 

I still don't have time to respond to anything here other than to say there is nothing remotely 5.9 about the first pitch of TF and anyone - anyone - claiming otherwise is full of sh#t. I'm sick with something I apparently can't shake and only rears up when I stress myself, like when climbing, so can't really muster a bunch of energy, but I'm not so damn sick I don't know what a 5.9 is. And if the first pitch of TF is 5.9, then YW is a 5.7 and Dods Jam and FFS are 5.8s.

Hope your feeling better soon Joseph.

 

[kevbone]

I think the bolts that are there are "grandfathered in", so to speak. Plenty of great climbs at Beacon without getting worked about the desire to put in more bolts. Like Bill said, if you really have to get your bolt fix, go find one of the many undeveloped crags and bolt away. Seems like you are just trolling here, especially since you have already admitted you have no plans or time to do any route developing.

 

BTW, nice to meet you on Saturday. Good luck with the new baby.

 

Nice to hang with you as well.....and see you on Wed at the event....

 

Can you define "granfathered in"?

[JosephH]

That's the bummer, I do feel better - until I climb, and then whatever it is comes roaring back about 80' later. Weird.

[denalidave]

I think the bolts that are there are "grandfathered in", so to speak. Plenty of great climbs at Beacon without getting worked about the desire to put in more bolts. Like Bill said, if you really have to get your bolt fix, go find one of the many undeveloped crags and bolt away. Seems like you are just trolling here, especially since you have already admitted you have no plans or time to do any route developing.

 

BTW, nice to meet you on Saturday. Good luck with the new baby.

 

 

 

Nice to hang with you as well.....and see you on Wed at the event....

 

Can you define "granfathered in"?

Sure...

 

Wiki link

 

A grandfather clause is a term used in U.S. English for an exception that allows an old rule to continue to apply to some existing situations, when a new rule will apply to all future situations. It is often used as a verb: to grandfather means to grant such an exemption. For example, a "grandfathered power plant" might be exempt from newer and tougher pollution laws. Often, such a provision is used as a compromise, to effect new rules without upsetting a well-established logistical or political situation. This extends the idea of a rule not being retroactively applied. A portion of a statute that provides that the law is not applicable in certain circumstances due to preexisting facts.

[kevbone]

Thanks Dave....actually I was looking for YOUR definition of "grandfathered in".....for example: all bolts placed before ______ are good and all placed after _____ are bad. That sort of thing……..

 

I ask this because there has been bolts placed on rappel there in the last couple of years…..I don’t see an uproar about them…..

 

[ivan]

since it's just an academic conversation anyways, where would you envision new bolted routes at beacon, kev (at least on the south side, which is pretty much totally covered in routes as is, a substantial # of which are neglected)?

 

its seems like most of the lines out there will go as trad, they just require balls and cleaning

 

are these new bolts placed on rap you're talking about, or just replacements? south side or north side?

[kevbone]

since it's just an academic conversation anyways, where would you envision new bolted routes at beacon,

 

Yes...this is just for conversation. It just gets my goat that 20 years ago it was “ok” to put bolts in at Beacon….but if someone wanted to put up a sport climb there in today’s world…..they would get shunned.

 

And to answer your question Ivan about where……I have no vision of this…..just the idea.

 

[ivan]

since it's just an academic conversation anyways, where would you envision new bolted routes at beacon,

 

Yes...this is just for conversation. It just gets my goat that 20 years ago it was ok to put bolts in at Beacon.but if someone wanted to put up a sport climb there in todays world..they would get shunned.

 

And to answer your question Ivan about whereI have no vision of this..just the idea.

maybe this explains why folks are opposed to new bolts then - pretty much the whole south face has been climbed trad style already or bolts have been put in where warranted, and now the only sport lines that are going to get put in are going to be squeeze jobs crowding in on existing trad climbs?

 

on the other hand, the north side could offer some fantastic winter/hot-summer-day sport climbing on rock that doesn't support trad, and i'd be plenty happy to see a fair number of sporty climbs there, if only they could also get cleaned w/o all the hassle that appears to be involved - i think it'll also ameloriate the situation if one side of the rock is sport-intensive and the other trad-centered - the two camps won't even have to talk to each other, just cast disgusted looks across the parking lot

[denalidave]

Thanks Dave....actually I was looking for YOUR definition of "grandfathered in".....for example: all bolts placed before ______ are good and all placed after _____ are bad. That sort of thing……..

 

I ask this because there has been bolts placed on rappel there in the last couple of years…..I don’t see an uproar about them…..

I don't really have a definition since I have not thought about it much, nor do I care to. I was not here climbing when all the politics hit the fan at Beacon. Personally, I don't want to see Beacon turn into a sport crag. That said, I have no problem with bolts/bolted sport routes either. I think it is nice to save a few areas for trad climbing and Beacon seems to be one of the areas that most climbers I have talked to would like to keep Beacon as primarily a trad area. My 2 cents...

 

Also, from what I understand, bolts are not banned outright, you just have to ask to put them in. So in theory, a new bolted line could be approved.

[John Frieh]

[video:youtube]

[markd]

I'm sick with something I apparently can't shake and only rears up when I stress myself, like when climbing, so can't really muster a bunch of energy, but I'm not so damn sick I don't know what a 5.9 is. And if the first pitch of TF is 5.9, then YW is a 5.7 and Dods Jam and FFS are 5.8s.

 

joseph,

i'd say your first pitch of menopause is pretty hardy for 5.9 as well! is it harder than that?

 

nate - great send!

 

now that i'm back in portland i'll have to give it a run. thanks all for the cleaning.

[JosephH]

Mark, I'd say by Menopause is a solid, old school (technical) +9 or -10 by Beacon standards (BSS etc) - Hanmi pretty much floats it. The first pitch of TF, on the otherhand, is way harder and far sketchier - more like 5.10c-d R. It has multiple difficult moves, on small technical pro, which have consequences to blowing it.

[kevbone]

Where is "menopause"?

[denalidave]

Where is "menopause"?

Right of YW above Rhythm Method.

[kevbone]

Where is rhythm method?

[ivan]

Mark, I'd say by Menopause is a solid, old school (technical) +9 or -10 by Beacon standards (BSS etc) - Hanmi pretty much floats it. The first pitch of TF, on the otherhand, is way harder and far sketchier - more like 5.10c-d R. It has multiple difficult moves, on small technical pro, which have consequences to blowing it.

dave, didn't you say you fell down low? you mustn't been too dinged up though, eh? your pro held? (was it right above the pin?) the pro sure is thin there though for the first 1/4 of the climb, and the potential for getting hurt is palpable - which is no doubt what makes it fun!

 

i agree the last part is mid-tenish, but it's a pretty clean fall on very solid gear, so nothing out of the ordinary there

[JosephH]

Kevin, the two one pitch lines around the corner to the right from YW. The dihedral on the left that goes on pro is 'Boardwalk' and the bolted one on the right (courtesy of Bill) is 'Rythmn Method'. Hanmi suggested 'Menopause' for the line above after Jim requested keeping with the reproductive theme.

[kevbone]

Oh yeah....the bolted 5.7 thing that you and bill and I did a couple of years ago. I never knew the name.

 

 

[Dechristo]

 

 

3 Forrest Copperhead, Foxheads, S- Foxheads,Blue Plastic Foxhead and Arrowheads.

 

Have one of the Forrest Foxheads, still.

 

[denalidave]

Mark, I'd say by Menopause is a solid, old school (technical) +9 or -10 by Beacon standards (BSS etc) - Hanmi pretty much floats it. The first pitch of TF, on the otherhand, is way harder and far sketchier - more like 5.10c-d R. It has multiple difficult moves, on small technical pro, which have consequences to blowing it.

dave, didn't you say you fell down low? you mustn't been too dinged up though, eh? your pro held? (was it right above the pin?) the pro sure is thin there though for the first 1/4 of the climb, and the potential for getting hurt is palpable - which is no doubt what makes it fun!

 

i agree the last part is mid-tenish, but it's a pretty clean fall on very solid gear, so nothing out of the ordinary there

Ivan, the first time I tried to lead it a week or so ago I came off on the sketchy traverse, just before you step up into the dihedral with the small pine tree in it. I had a shitty alien way left & a bit below me that, much to my surprise, held the lengthy pendulum fall. When I led it yesterday, I never felt much of the pro was bomber, except in the fist section. It took me about an hour or more to get up the pitch and after all that effort, I then grabbed your fixed rope on the last move since I had run out of slings and biners and could not clip the last nut I'd gotten in. I was pretty gripped the whole pitch but it was fun.

[JosephH]

Oh yeah....the bolted 5.7 thing that you and bill and I did a couple of years ago. I never knew the name.

 

That was Bill and Jim as I understand it. I just replaced the anchor on it.

[kevbone]

No, you and Bill were climbing it and you let me take a ride on TR......remember?