Behold: National Health Care

[mattp]

healthcare reform should start with lowering tuition for med students and with increase in pay for residents. it's ridiculous to leave school with 200-250k in a hole.

 

Not a bad idea, but more "socialism."

[KaskadskyjKozak]

fuck you mattp

 

[pink]

i'd rather buy my own shite and carry my weight.

[glassgowkiss]

now can you logically explain to me a 450 bucs difference? don't forget that most of people who suffer a major illness go bankrupt even with insurance. fantasy land is where you live, since you are claiming the system works.

 

Wow! Another MattP! I'm "claiming it works". You guys are laughable.

one more try- why do you think a cost of a physician working night should be $450 more per shift. can you answer one fucking question straight without using communist methods of relativism?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

If someone is proposing to fundamentally change a huge, complicated system, I want assurances that they will not make it worse. Usually such change by the social engineers and libtards only fucks things up worse. Where did employer-sponsored health insurance come from in the first place BTW?

 

Questioning and challenging proposals is not defending alternate proposals or the status quo. It's called critical thinking. Try it some time, boner. Actually, try "thinking", sometime, period.

[mattp]

fuck you mattp

I'm hurt, KK. I just asked you to explain what was the basis for your angry retorts and blanket statements and you call me names and tell me to piss off. Is this your idea of critical thinking?

[glassgowkiss]

fuck you mattp

I'm hurt, KK. I just asked you to explain what was the basis for your angry retorts and blanket statements and you call me names and tell me to piss off. Is this your idea of critical thinking?

don't expect too much matt. following suite of nikita next thing he'll do is smash his shoe on a pulpit.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Bidnyj lyakh - ne pryznaye, shcho vin sam kommunyak, khoch robyt' vyd, shcho tu systemu nanavydyt', tak samo khoche vlashtuvaty tochno taku v Ameryci. Zvalys' het' nazad do bat'kivshchyny, Rossiyi - ty tam budesh zadovolonyj razom iz odnodumcyamy spivzasrancyamy tam.

 

 

[JayB]

now can you logically explain to me a 450 bucs difference? don't forget that most of people who suffer a major illness go bankrupt even with insurance. fantasy land is where you live, since you are claiming the system works.

 

Wow! Another MattP! I'm "claiming it works". You guys are laughable.

one more try- why do you think a cost of a physician working night should be $450 more per shift. can you answer one fucking question straight without using communist methods of relativism?

 

I'm pretty sure that the answer is "supply and demand."

 

After socializing with ~ 30-40 ER residents periodically over the course of three years, I feel pretty confident that most ER docs don't like working nights any more than anyone else.

 

The rough consensus I gathered seemed to be that working nights sucks, so hospitals looking to staff ER's overnight have to offer ER docs a payment sufficient to outweigh all the negatives that come along with working overnight shifts.

 

 

[JayB]

For the third time...Name three ways private health care is good for American people..Hmm I thought so

 

 

Private health care or private health insurance. Let's be clear wtf we're talking about.

 

Actually that is a good point. The Swiss system is universal and private - and much cheaper and successful than ours. I'd be ok with that one.

 

"Switzerland's consumer-driven health care system achieves universal insurance and high quality of care at significantly lower costs than the employer-based US system and without the constrained resources that can characterize government-controlled systems. Unlike other systems in which the choice and most of the funding for health insurance is provided by third parties, such as employers and governments, in the Swiss system, individuals are required to purchase their own health insurance. The positive results achieved by the Swiss system may be attributed to its consumer control, price transparency of the insurance plans, risk adjustment of insurers, and solidarity. However, the constraints the Swiss system places on hospitals and physicians and the paucity of provider quality information may unduly limit its impact. The Swiss health care system holds important lessons, including evidence about its feasibility and equity, for the United States, which is now embarking on its own consumer-driven health care system."

 

Quite a while ago I remember someone encapsulating the central dilemma that anyone formulating public health-care policy would have to contend with as follows:

 

"-Universal coverage.

-Unlimited care.

-Cost Containment.

 

Choose any two."

 

I don't personally think that a single system can fully resovle this dilemma, but the swiss model probably comes as close as any single system in the world at the moment.

 

Why the Canadia system has become the foremost model in everyone's mind, when there are literally dozens of other models in the world that work at least as well is a bit of a mystery to me.

 

Kudos to Jim for at least realizing that the Canadian model is but one of many alternatives to our current system.

[rob]

I gotta say, FW, you are one of the best trolls on this site. Kudos.

[archenemy]

Best Bet:

Don't get sick.

And die at home. Quickly.

[Fairweather]

I'm curious, what do you have against the idea of access to health care for all Americans?

All Americans do have access to health care via the ER. And that does suck, but most of the tools on this site support a government single-payer type system where the government has even more power over our lives than they already do.

 

I happen to be a sick guy fortunate enough to have excellent health care coverage. Even with really good coverage, I have spent > $10,000 out of my own pocket for health care over the last 6 months.

Didn't I see you kickin steps at almost 12,000 feet on Rainier just last month?

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

All Americans do have access to health care via the ER. And that does suck, but most of the tools on this site support a government single-payer type system where the government has even more power over our lives than they already do

 

That's as sustainable as the Bush tax cuts.

[rob]

All Americans do have access to health care via the ER. And that does suck, but most of the tools on this site support a government single-payer type system where the government has even more power over our lives than they already do.

 

First of all, the ER is not the place, nor are they trained to, get long-term medical care for serious chronic illness.

 

And, it's not free. You know that, right? Granted, they won't turn you away, but they WILL send you a bill. And, unless your illness qualifies as an emergency, they will make sure you're stabilized and then pass you over to in-patient/out-patient care -- also, not free. This is where many people fail to follow up, because of the cost.

 

Now, ironically, the extreme poor are often not the ones screwed by lack of medical insurance, at least in my experience. I was on medicaid at one point due to poverty, and it came in handy.

 

It's the people who make too much money to qualify for medicaid who get into trouble; that's when the bills start piling up, even though the ER is so "accessible."

 

Hell, even ambulances aren't free.

[Fairweather]

And, it's not free. You know that, right? Granted, they won't turn you away, but they WILL send you a bill. And, unless your illness qualifies as an emergency, they will make sure you're stabilized and then pass you over to in-patient/out-patient care -- also, not free. This is where many people fail to follow up, because of the cost.

 

Now, ironically, the extreme poor are often not the ones screwed by lack of medical insurance, at least in my experience. I was on medicaid at one point due to poverty, and it came in handy.

 

It's the people who make too much money to qualify for medicaid who get into trouble; that's when the bills start piling up, even though the ER is so "accessible."

 

Hell, even ambulances aren't free.

 

Nationalized health care in Canada, Western Europe, etc, isn't "free" either. You do understand that, right?

[rob]

And, it's not free. You know that, right? Granted, they won't turn you away, but they WILL send you a bill. And, unless your illness qualifies as an emergency, they will make sure you're stabilized and then pass you over to in-patient/out-patient care -- also, not free. This is where many people fail to follow up, because of the cost.

 

Now, ironically, the extreme poor are often not the ones screwed by lack of medical insurance, at least in my experience. I was on medicaid at one point due to poverty, and it came in handy.

 

It's the people who make too much money to qualify for medicaid who get into trouble; that's when the bills start piling up, even though the ER is so "accessible."

 

Hell, even ambulances aren't free.

 

Nationalized health care in Canada, Western Europe, etc, isn't "free" either. You do understand that, right?

 

I know very little about the nationalized health care of other countries. What I DO know is that our healthcare/insurance system here in the United States is not working. It would be nice to see republicans at least admit that.

[TREETOAD]

This is true.

If we do not work for a company that has a health and dental care plan then we pay for medical insurance. It is basic insurance and the premium depends upon your marital status, how many kids etc. It does cover you for everything. You can also get extended health care which covers all sorts of things such as eye prescriptions health care coverage in other countries and a host of other stuff, like prescriptions, dental care etc. The cost is not huge, but there is a cost. If you happen to be on welfare or a first nations native then that is covered by the people of British Columbia and Canada.

 

[Fairweather]

And, it's not free. You know that, right? Granted, they won't turn you away, but they WILL send you a bill. And, unless your illness qualifies as an emergency, they will make sure you're stabilized and then pass you over to in-patient/out-patient care -- also, not free. This is where many people fail to follow up, because of the cost.

 

Now, ironically, the extreme poor are often not the ones screwed by lack of medical insurance, at least in my experience. I was on medicaid at one point due to poverty, and it came in handy.

 

It's the people who make too much money to qualify for medicaid who get into trouble; that's when the bills start piling up, even though the ER is so "accessible."

 

Hell, even ambulances aren't free.

 

Nationalized health care in Canada, Western Europe, etc, isn't "free" either. You do understand that, right?

 

I know very little about the nationalized health care of other countries. What I DO know is that our healthcare/insurance system here in the United States is not working. It would be nice to see republicans at least admit that.

 

I don't think you understand. No healthcare is free--anywhere. Somebody pays for it. My problems with any proposed single-payer/government controlled system lie not with any equity issues but, rather, with issues of freedom and control. The old Hillary-Care proposal would have put too much power in the hands of government. Are you really for that?

 

 

[canyondweller]

And, it's not free. You know that, right? Granted, they won't turn you away, but they WILL send you a bill. And, unless your illness qualifies as an emergency, they will make sure you're stabilized and then pass you over to in-patient/out-patient care -- also, not free. This is where many people fail to follow up, because of the cost.

 

Now, ironically, the extreme poor are often not the ones screwed by lack of medical insurance, at least in my experience. I was on medicaid at one point due to poverty, and it came in handy.

 

It's the people who make too much money to qualify for medicaid who get into trouble; that's when the bills start piling up, even though the ER is so "accessible."

 

Hell, even ambulances aren't free.

 

Nationalized health care in Canada, Western Europe, etc, isn't "free" either. You do understand that, right?

 

I know very little about the nationalized health care of other countries. What I DO know is that our healthcare/insurance system here in the United States is not working. It would be nice to see republicans at least admit that.

 

Hmmm...my healthcare/insurance works great! Or, do you mean that the healthcare/insurance of people who don't have any doesn't work? That is a different statement. Don't say the "system" doesn't work; because it does for the majority of people invested in it.

[pink]

i got to test out my health insurance the other day and i got what i needed and quick

[pink]

oh yeh, i work my ass off for my insurance and i'm ok with that. the dole is over rated.

[33M]

5k quote

some people don't pay up, and they charge others to make up the difference.

 

if you think doctors and nurses are rich bastards living it up, you are in fantasy land

 

End quote

 

Thought someone else would've seen this. Guess 5k likes socialized medicine, too.

[pink]

5k quote

some people don't pay up, and they charge others to make up the difference.

 

if you think doctors and nurses are rich bastards living it up, you are in fantasy land

 

End quote

 

Thought someone else would've seen this. Guess 5k likes socialized medicine, too.

 

 

[mattp]

Don't say the "system" doesn't work; because it does for the majority of people invested in it.

 

Spoken like a true conservative. The oil economy is working, too. So is our President. And I bet you hate taxes.

 

The U.S. spends more on health care, both as a proportion of gross domestic product (GDP) and on a per-capita basis, than any other nation in the world …

According to the Institute of Medicine of the National Academy of Sciences, the U.S. is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system…..

Americans without health insurance coverage at some time during 2006 totaled about 16% of the population, or 47 million people. Health insurance costs are rising faster than wages or inflation, and "medical causes" were cited by about half of bankruptcy filers in the United States in 2001.

The debate about U.S. health care concerns questions of access, efficiency, and quality purchased by the high sums spent. The World Health Organization (WHO) in 2000 ranked the U.S. health care system first in both responsiveness and expenditure, but 37th in overall performance and 72nd by overall level of health (among 191 member nations included in the study). The WHO study has been criticized both for its methodology and for a lack of correlation with user satisfaction ratings. The CIA World Factbook ranked the United States 41st in the world for lowest infant mortality rate[13] and 45th for highest total life expectancy. A recent study found that between 1997 and 2003, preventable deaths declined more slowly in the United States than in 18 other industrialized nations. On the other hand, the National Health Interview Survey, released annually by the Centers for Disease Control's National Center for Health Statistics reported that approximately 66% of survey respondents said they were in "excellent" or "very good" health in 2006.

 

 

My wife and I pay $8,000 a year for health insurance that doesn't cover dental or extended care, and we spent well over a thousand dollars for deductibles and uncovered services in the last year. Neither of us has been to the hospital for years, and the doctor's I've seen for recent back problems have ordered expensive tests that offered little chance of affecting their recommendations, they've been hostile to the idea of working with other practitioners or disciplines, and they've generally done little for me. Over the years, those who have been the most helpful - such as our chiropractors, acupuncturists and massage therapists - have frequently not wanted to deal with insurance because the insurance companies screw them over. When I was suffering severe muscle spasm's last year, I went to a clinic near my office and the doctor there wouldn't give me a simple prescription for a muscle relaxer. She must have thought I was a drug addict or something. Flexiril? C'mon.

 

In the last year, my father in law was killed by malpractice at at a Seattle hospital.

 

Our system "works" but it doesn't even come close to working well for me.