McCain speech

[Dechristo]

and it's why the FAA is mandating Viagra dispensers in airport restrooms.

 

The first trials were in Minneapolis

[Dechristo]

WAKE UP, PEOPLE

[STP]

Cry baby cry

Make your mother sigh

She's old enough to know better

So cry baby cry.

 

Twelve o'clock a

meeting round the table

For a seance in the dark

Voices out of nowhere

Put on specially by the

children for a lark.

[STP]

"I hate the gooks."

Edited June 9, 2008 by STP

[STP]

STP, I don't know about the Harvard Implicit Association Test but I am sure that we all do have a racial bias. Hell: I go to a 99% white church where we talk about diversity at least once a month. There goes my insensitivity that DeChristo pointed out once again.

 

It'd probably be equally insensitive to point out that here in Seattle we elected an African American mayor in a big city that is overwhelmingly white (a first in the U.S., perhaps?). And I don't think that race was an issue in the election. I liked Mayor Rice because he made advertisements for KCMU, saying he liked Gas Huffer and Catt Butt. He apparently recognized a great radio station for what it was, and had fun celebrating that fact.

 

Isn't this racial sensitivity somewhat a manufactured product? In other words, we bought into it. That's coming from the folks in Martin Luther King County. Doesn't take looking back in West Coast history to see racial hatred, etc. And yeah, I know we elected a Chinese-American as governor not that long ago.

 

I don't believe that deep down inside people in Seattle are any more humane than, say, people in the Twin Cities (doh, that's Minnesota). Also, some of the cosmopolitan attitude is brought out by the urban setting but rural folks are as sensitive or more so than urbanites.

 

 

Edited June 9, 2008 by STP

[scott_harpell]

rural folks are as sensitive or more so than urbanites.

 

true... and I think the reason is that you HAVE to interact with the people in a small town. You can avoid people in a big city without people noticing; you can't do that in a town of 600.

[Hugh Conway]

rural folks are as sensitive or more so than urbanites.

 

true... and I think the reason is that you HAVE to interact with the people in a small town. You can avoid people in a big city without people noticing; you can't do that in a town of 600.

 

tell that to the Unabomber

[scott_harpell]

rural folks are as sensitive or more so than urbanites.

 

true... and I think the reason is that you HAVE to interact with the people in a small town. You can avoid people in a big city without people noticing; you can't do that in a town of 600.

 

tell that to the Unabomber

 

he lived in a shack of one.

[mattp]

STP, no doubt about it, racial sensitivity is manufactured product and I am cynnical enough to recognize that in at least some iterations it has as much to do with feeling better about one's self as it does actually being sensitive to the needs or values of someone else. I am also able to poke fun of myself and my peers, hence above I noted that I go to a nearly all white church where we talk about diversity.

 

And you are right, the west coast has plenty of racial hatred going on. Hell: the neighborhood I live in actually had written coveneants that didn't allow blacks, jews, or people of middle eastern origin until the 1970's or something, Seattle is nearly as segregated as any city in the south, and there are plenty of people of various races who live here that absolutely hate or fear those of particular other races. I don't think we have near the history or current level of tension between blacks and whites that Michigan does, however, and I am aware that Seattle has had major race riots against the Chinese, in particular. I don't accept DeChristo's argument that it is healthier to have racist attitudes more on the surface and actively expressed than it is to at least have folks generally recognizing that such attitudes are "politically incorrect," no matter how much disdain you may have for notions of political correctness.

 

I'm not sure that rural people are any more sensitive or, to use Dechristo's word, "sensible" than urbanites, however. I think the attitudes and experiences are different, and their expression different and, because we started talking about this subject in the context of whether whites might not vote for Obama, I'd venture a guess that he will and already did win a greater percentage of the electorate in Seattle than the Tri Cities. I'm just guessing on that last point, though.

[XXX]

Seattle is nearly as segregated as any city in the south,

 

Matt I generally respect your opinion, but on this point you are just simply smoking crack bro. Seattle, and the west coast in general is much more integrated then places in the south. In fact suprisngly places like Kent, Rent, and Tacoma are some of the most racially integrated places in the nation when it comes to blacks and whites. Lets just keep in mind though that the black population out west is significantly smaller. So on that point I will concede.

 

I think one indicator of how far a region has come in racial progress can be measured by interrcial marriage. This may come as a suprise to some but states like Washington, California, Hawaii, Arizona and other west coast states, suprisngly even Alaska have higher interracial marriage rates then most places east of the Mississipi.

 

The stark difference between DEMOCRAT voters in Applachia and in western states is quite stark. The fact that Obama can win democrats in Idah/Montana/Alaska yet not in West Virgina and Applachia should tell us something.

 

On a final note I don't deny racism exists, but people in Washington state are much different then people living in a place like West Virgina or Kentucky. No offense if anyone on this board is from those places.

 

On a positive note, I do think Generation X and Y are much more tolerant then our parents generation. Electing Obama would be a huge generational change in American politics.

Edited June 10, 2008 by XXX

[mattp]

XXX, you may actually be right. On my block, where as I already mentioned blacks and people of middle east descent were not permitted until the 1970's, we have a black and Asian family. But in the Seattle city limits, the black and Asian families are overwhelmingly concentrated in the SE quadrant, are they not?

 

I realize that Federal Way is a different story, and that a lot of middle class black and Asian families live in Bellevue, but Seattle is certainly segregated -- maybe not quite like Jacksonville, FLorida, or ... [add your favorite city here] but not altogether different.

 

As I argued, to the objection of at least two others, I recognize that people living in Washington are much different than those living on the Eastern U.S. I was talking about Michigan, where I have personal knowledge, but I won't argue if you say that outward expressions of racial intolerance are greater in West Virginia or Kentucky, or produce maps and charts showing greater segregation.

 

 

In the context of this election, how do you think this will influence things? When push comes to shove, and we are choosing between Bush term III and something that might be different, can Obama win votes in the midwest and south?

[XXX]

XXX, you may actually be right. On my block, where as I already mentioned blacks and people of middle east descent were not permitted until the 1970's, we have a black and Asian family. But in the Seattle city limits, the black and Asian families are overwhelmingly concentrated in the SE quadrant, are they not?

 

I realize that Federal Way is a different story, and that a lot of middle class black and Asian families live in Bellevue, but Seattle is certainly segregated -- maybe not quite like Jacksonville, FLorida, or ... [add your favorite city here] but not altogether different.

 

In the context of this election, how do you think this will influence things? When push comes to shove, and we are choosing between Bush term III and something that might be different, can Obama win votes in the midwest and south?

 

As I argued, to the objection of at least two others, I recognize that people living in Washington are much different than those living on the Eastern U.S. I was talking about Michigan, where I have personal knowledge, but I won't argue if you say that outward expressions of racial intolerance are greater in West Virginia or Kentucky, or produce maps and charts showing greater segregation.

 

You could be right about Seattle itself, but in general the puget sound area is much more diverse.

 

As far as the Asian population goes, Asians make up more then 25 percent of Bellevue in mostly middle to upper class areas. In Seattle I would argue that most Asians are self segreated since most living in the Seattle area are first generation immigrants. The asians who are segreated in Seattle are not doing so because of race, but because of generational trends and economics.

 

For african americans it is a different story, since many blacks living in the Rainier valley are confined to that area due to their low income. Consequently more blacks are leaving SE seattle for places like Kent, Federal way, Renton, Auburn and Tacoma.

 

As far as your other points go, I do agree with you very much so. Lets put aside the white issue for a moment, many older hispanics and asians have racists attitudes towards blacks. I am not so sure obama can win states like West Virgina, Kentucky, or even Flordia right now.

 

The difference between regions in this country are quite stark. As far as the midwest goes, Minnesota and Iowa are much different then Michigan and Ohio. Obama can win the former, but not so sure of the later.

 

I'm not going to throw maps and charts out, but Obama has a serious problem in places like Ohio, Indiana, Michigan, West Virgina, even places that are solidly democrat like Pennsylvania.

 

Some may disagree with me on this, but racist attitudes in Michigan, Indiana, and Ohio are terrible. I do think Obama can win, but it will be close. Additionally I know democrats do not like to admit it, but she damaged Obama imo.

Edited June 10, 2008 by XXX

[mattp]

What? No maps and charts?

[XXX]

What? No maps and charts?

 

If I had more charts I could be on msnbc

[STP]

I don't believe that prejudice is a major influencer in the process. Other matters of public perception come into play here. Race is only one factor.

 

For instance, Obama may be slighted for his religious beliefs (seemingly more Unitarian than Christian) or charges of elitism may stick to his image and foster his disconnect with blue-collar folks in places like the Rust Belt. Could be a whole host of things that figure into his media persona.

 

Could also be a rejection of the 2008 platform of the Democratic Party.

[olyclimber]

Bug in Mouth Brings Out the Street in Reporter - Watch more free videos

[Stefan]

Does anybody have a problem with the semantics of "I am a 'black-American' "

 

versus,

 

"I am an American, and I am black."

 

just wondering, becuase I have a problem with the first semantic. maybe I am just weird!