McCain speech

[mattp]

Yo Fairweather: I was just kidding about the cultural superior part - at least in part.

 

I actually DO prefer the culture here to that in Michigan, but I knew if I put in a line about "cultural superiority" you'd be sure to get wrankled 'cause that has been your schtick for something like 6 years here on cc.com: "You Seattle liberals are all so smug and you drive Volvo's, too... blah blah blah."

 

Relax, dude. Or are you REALLY arguing that racisim and racial tension isn't worse in Detroit?

[Dechristo]

I've been holding my head in shame all these years for nothing. I was 11 in 1968 and apparently my political note-taking was a little off.

Considering this perception of yours (at this time), of national politics, at that time, leads me to speculate on your inward reckoning and judgments on the subject of Race - as well as pointing to your ostensible political mis-perceptions.

 

Meanwhile, every time I visit I still find the racial attitudes there to be very different from those here in Seattle. I never get the "what the f*@! you looking at, white boy?" kind of reaction around here and I have not encountered anybody here with even close to the racist attitudes of kids I grew up with. We in Seattle are as segregated as Detroit, to be sure, but I don't think we openly display the same measure of racism. Would you agree with this, or do you think your inter-racial social group is the norm in Michigan? Really? Because virtually EVERYBODY I've talked with about this who lives in southern and particularly southeastern Michigan or comes from there has agreed that the West Coast is way less tense in this regard. I just ran into somebody at the gym the other day who agreed -- and if he says so it must be true.

In my experience, with rare exception, a strong measure of ethnocentrism is the norm the world over. It doesn't matter if "openly displayed" or held inward, politely. No, I don't agree southeastern Michigan is escalated above most other areas of this country in racist values held by its inhabitants. I'm not discounting its presence, but asserting that the lack of open displays are not evidence of its diminishment or absence.

 

 

Maybe it is different in the UP, where there really aren't any black people, are there?

Again, this statement doesn't address the presence of racism, but simply the lack of its expression.

 

Polite racism, though more palatable to some, is no less vile than more crude expressions.

[mattp]

Whatever, DC. After all the discussion you've come around to what was my actual point in the first place: it is not really surprising to hear somebody from Michigan say they'd never vote for a black presidential candidate. And you appear to agree with my secondary point: racism tends to be expressed more openly in Michigan than in Seattle. (Scroll up and you'll see that I specifically noted in one of my first posts in this sub-topic that we are just as segregated as Detroit and I didn't and don't dispute your assertion that there is "hidden" racism here.)

 

Michigan. Land of racial bliss. NOT. North. More "enlightened" than south. NOT NECESSARILY.

[Dechristo]

mattp - why do you care what a rural colorado hick has to say?

 

HEY! I resemble that remark!

[Dechristo]

Whatever, DC. After all the discussion you've come around to what was my actual point in the first place: it is not really surprising to hear somebody from Michigan say they'd never vote for a black presidential candidate. And you appear to agree with my secondary point: racism tends to be expressed more openly in Michigan than in Seattle.

 

Michigan. Land of racial bliss. NOT. North. More "enlightened" than south. NOT.

 

Man, you're thick-headed as to the point and thin-skinned concerning racial politics...

 

...or simply superficial.

 

I suppose you'd find it more comfortable in polite and white New Hampshire, too, where Democrats stated one thing in the primary exit polls, but their racism cast a different ballot.

 

 

[Fairweather]

I honestly don't know. I*'m just sayin...

 

I gotta go to bed. Mailbox and Granite double @8am.

 

TBC

[mattp]

You think I'm dense, DeChristo?

 

You agree with what I said: racism and racial tension are more openly visible in Michigan but Seattle is in reality just as segregated as Detroit. You slam me for a warped view of the entire world because I remember Wallace winning the state in 1968 while in fact he simply won the Democratic primary there in 1972. Your only beef is that you think I must promote or prefer unacknowledged racism to good old fashioned KKK style honesty (or something like that)* and you've been getting all aggro and calling me names for ten posts. If I'm dense, what are you? Pointlessly caustic?

 

Its a lot more fun, in my opinion, to talk about issues than to slam just to slam. Have a nice day.

 

 

 

 

* KKK in Ann Arbor in 1996

[Dechristo]

Yeah, you're correct - my tone may have been unnecessarily aggressive. I simply tire of the routinely erroneous assertions and hyperbole in your posts, which contributes to the idea that you're "dense".

 

So, you've moved to stating as "fact" that Wallace won the Democratic primary. At this time, I'm not going to trouble with looking it up, but I doubt this - your "fact" - as well. Wallace ran on the American Independent Party ticket. In the general election, the State went to the Democratic candidate, Hubert Humphrey. Your statement does not make sense nor square with these elements.

 

It's obvious you have few skills, constructive experience, or sensibility with concern to issues of Race - which, is probably why you jump so readily to the hyperbolic (again), in this case, the KKK...in Ann Arbor, no less: easily, one of the most liberally-minded (and governed) cities in our Country.

 

It's disconcerting to find someone so unwilling to examine their own judgments and misconceptions - in this case, concerning Race.

 

Examine this statement:

Maybe it is different in the UP, where there really aren't any black people, are there?

Setting aside the ludicrousness of associating the Upper Peninsula culture which is similar to that of western Ontario, northern Minnesota, and northern Wisconsin, with southern Michigan, you imply a remedy for racial tension is separation. Or, as in your personal anecdotes, to ignore politely. You've plopped yourself between the sheets with strange bedfellows.

 

How ironic to find this acceptance of unresolved personal conflict (whether internal or overt) and abstinence from the pursuit of understanding, in one whose persona promotes, regularly, the "meeting of the minds".

 

I'm not slamming you "just to slam". You, as all of us, earn a slamming on a regular basis for foisted inaccurate statements and the appearance of sentiments at odds with an identity built online, accumulatively. This time, I, uncharacteristically, was the one who took the time.

 

If you can't have an ice day, I hope you have a nice day.

 

 

 

 

 

[mattp]

DeChristo, I grew up in Ann Arbor. I am well aware of the fact that it is a liberal city. My father was a professor there, and I was very proud of the fact that he marched with Martin Luther King in Selma. I was surprised when I typed "KKK Michigan" in google and a KKK demonstration in Ann Arbor was one of the first things that came up. (I thought to search this because I knew kids growing up who were very proud of the fact that the grand dragon lived in Mason County or some such place. You may debunk that memory and maybe it was only a local Klan hero or something - I don't know.) Anyway, Google revealed that Ann Arbor item and all kinds of other articles about a long history of KKK activity throughout southern Michigan. I used to vacation up north, too, and I am well aware of the different culture there. Oh, and by the way: here's the site where I found that Wallace had won that primary: WIkipedia My memory was correct that he had won an election in that period, though I apologize profusely that I insulted you by saying it was a national vote.

 

My original argument was in no way hyperpole. Try using google some time. Search "racial tension Michigan" and search "racial tension Seattle." Try "Klu Klux Klan Michigan" and "Klu Klux Klan Seattle." See what comes up. I visit Michigan once in a while and I don't think the web is misleading on this point.

 

Oh: and by the way: several days a month I work in an office where "access to justice" is part of our mission and half our service population are people of color. I may not be omniscient but I think I know a little bit about the sensitivities involved. I do, however, believe in saying what I think. And I think southern Michigan is more racist and racism is more visible there than in Seattle. NOwhere did I say or imply that a remedy to racism is to hide or ignore it.

[STP]

I agree wit ya, DC concerning ethnocentrism (a few posts up). Harvard's Implicit Association Test suggests that all of us have a subconscious racial bias.

 

Oddly enough, it may work in Obama's favor.

 

BTW, McCain supporters...what does McCain propose to upgrade our infrastructure and how does he propose to fund it?

[mattp]

STP, I don't know about the Harvard Implicit Association Test but I am sure that we all do have a racial bias. Hell: I go to a 99% white church where we talk about diversity at least once a month. There goes my insensitivity that DeChristo pointed out once again.

 

It'd probably be equally insensitive to point out that here in Seattle we elected an African American mayor in a big city that is overwhelmingly white (a first in the U.S., perhaps?). And I don't think that race was an issue in the election. I liked Mayor Rice because he made advertisements for KCMU, saying he liked Gas Huffer and Catt Butt. He apparently recognized a great radio station for what it was, and had fun celebrating that fact.

[Dechristo]

STP, I don't know about the Harvard Implicit Association Test but I am sure that we all do have a racial bias. Hell: I go to a 99% white church where we talk about diversity at least once a month. There goes my insensitivity that DeChristo pointed out once again.

 

 

"Sensibility", my man.

 

to wit: once a month talks about diversity with a 99%-white church group.

 

you ought to lead a mission trip to Michigan.

 

 

 

 

[mattp]

you ought to lead a mission trip to Michigan.

 

As you claim to be so better qualified, I'll leave that one for you.

[tvashtarkatena]

Ah sho gotta sensbilty fo sumthin pink on da insahd, thas fo sho!

[Dechristo]

you had best save that defense for your bestiality trial

[Dechristo]

you ought to lead a mission trip to Michigan.

 

As you claim to be so better qualified, I'll leave that one for you.

 

Where's your passion? Your zeeeal???

[Dechristo]

Matt,

 

Your Dasmascus road enlightenment will involve a vision of the rightfully color-skinned Jesus. You will be compelled to undertake this mission to Michigan.

 

 

tremble

[olyclimber]

De Crisco, you will get your JUST rewards. Its in the mail.

[Dechristo]

did you insure it? for how much?

 

 

celestial raiment ain't cheap

[tvashtarkatena]

you had best save that defense for your bestiality trial

 

Better, best, bestial,

and pass the butter I always say.

[tvashtarkatena]

Ok, that's the first time I've said that.

[olyclimber]

i'm only charging one tank full these days.

[tvashtarkatena]

and last

[Dechristo]

yeah, last time you said, "bestial, best butter".

[tvashtarkatena]

WTF? Robitussen is now alcohol free? AND you can't make meth out of it anymore? What the hell are we paying for here, people?

 

We gotta get the GOP out. These drug companies are having their way with us and definitely not saying I Love You while doing it.