Long Live Corporate Welfare!

[JayB]

Anyone familiar with the block of Condos built by the Bremerton ferry landing, a few of which were listed for ~1 million dollars?

 

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2008/mar/09/tough-market-leaves-bremertons-harborside-condos/

 

http://www.kitsapsun.com/news/2008/mar/12/waterfront-condos-to-be-put-up-for-auction/

 

Sounds like the Kitsap County Housing Authority is behind this project.

 

 

[foraker]

Short of a time machine that could go back to 1998 and rewrite the rules governing retail lending, transparency and ratings standards for securitizing mortgages, etc...

 

"Golly gee, if only we had known something like this could happen when we were clamoring to deregulate the financial services industry!" Wash hands, a few bad apples, business as usual. BTW, I'm under no illusion that what is playing out here is any serious collapse (in the short term), if for no other reason than that the State has proven so willing and adept at managing increasingly frequent, if less destructive, capitalist crises and bailing out individual firms when the "free-market" inevitably shits the bed.

 

 

 

When did this "de-regulation" that you speak of occur?

 

Clinton probably kicked this off through his initative to increase home ownership in 1994. Instead of trying to make housing cheaper, however, he decided to loosen the rules on mortgages.

 

Making homeownership more attainable became a goal early in the administration. In late 1994, President Clinton set as a national goal to raise the homeownership rate to 67.5 percent by the end of 2000.

 

HUD used its oversight of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to encourage those entities to reach out to low-income borrowers and areas underserved by the private market. Finally, a revitalized Federal Housing Administration (FHA) has substantially increased lending to African Americans, Hispanics, and other traditionally underserved groups and, in doing so, has worked to increase homeownership opportunities of these segments.

 

 

If this was a 'known problem', why do you suppose it never got 'fixed'?

[Hugh Conway]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120580966534444395.html?mod=hpp_us_whats_news

 

This was no normal negotiation, says one person involved in the matter. Instead of two parties, there were three, this person explains, the third being the government. It is unclear what explicit requests were made by the Fed or Treasury. But the deal now in place has a number of features that are highly unusual, according to people who worked on the transaction

[olyclimber]

the real fun has been on the BSC message boards

 

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_T/threadview?m=tm&bn=2670&tid=110805&mid=110805&tof=4&frt=4

[Hugh Conway]

the real fun has been on the BSC message boards

 

http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_T/threadview?m=tm&bn=2670&tid=110805&mid=110805&tof=4&frt=4

 

My favorite was the dealbook comment from CITIC "you lie! you no get $1 billion from us!"

[j_b]

The free marketeers have had that free hand so far up their asses for so long (~30 years as a matter of fact) that it's proving after all to be a little distraction, isn't it JayB? You seem to have forgotten all that wonderful rhetoric about "big government" and "nanny state" and "welfare queens" ... "let them eat jelly beans" and all that. Isn't it after all a good thing that your pals couldn't quite "drown government in a bathtub"?

 

Anyhow, I am not coming out of retirement but I have been itching to come jeering at you and your pal PP, who doesn't seem too keen either on denouncing this massive bailout of financial markets. What a surprise .... not!

[tomtom]

j-b is correct. We need to quit this 'free market' farce and give Bush *complete* control over the economy. Let the gov't take care of it.

[j_b]

as if we didn't know you'd vote again for Bush if you could.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

as if we didn't know you'd vote again for Bush if you could.

 

as if we didn't know you'd vote for Iosif Vissarionovich, if you could.

 

[tvashtarkatena]

The Boss rocks.

[tomtom]

as if we didn't know you'd vote again for Bush if you could.

 

as if we didn't know you'd vote for Iosif Vissarionovich, if you could.

 

as if we didn't know he'd vote for Hu Jintao, if he could.

[j_b]

as if we didn't know you'd vote again for Bush if you could.

 

as if we didn't know you'd vote for Iosif Vissarionovich, if you could.

 

as if we didn't know he'd vote for Hu Jintao, if he could.

 

Yeah right, it's always somebody else's fault. When it isn't the terrorists, it's the commies. Pathetic.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

 

Yeah right, it's always somebody else's fault... Pathetic.

 

Oh the irony, the irony!

[Peter_Puget]

The free marketeers have had that free hand so far up their asses for so long (~30 years as a matter of fact) that it's proving after all to be a little distraction, isn't it JayB? You seem to have forgotten all that wonderful rhetoric about "big government" and "nanny state" and "welfare queens" ... "let them eat jelly beans" and all that. Isn't it after all a good thing that your pals couldn't quite "drown government in a bathtub"?

 

Anyhow, I am not coming out of retirement but I have been itching to come jeering at you and your pal PP, who doesn't seem too keen either on denouncing this massive bailout of financial markets. What a surprise .... not!

 

Right on! The madrassa finally got wi-fi. Anyway here's my contribution to this topic: here

 

Read, learn, and connect the dots.

 

By the way any loss the Fed and ultimately the US Gov. realizes on all the AAA collateral needs to be offset by the taxes generated by the bailout.

 

 

[Hugh Conway]

By the way any loss the Fed and ultimately the US Gov. realizes on all the AAA collateral needs to be offset by the taxes generated by the bailout.

 

No shit?

[Peter_Puget]

Just pointing out that even if the collateral dies the government may in fact come out ahead.....

[Hugh Conway]

Thats the dumbest thing you've written yet.

[j_b]

Right on! The madrassa finally got wi-fi

 

Note, i said it first you'd pull out your anti-terrorist rattle. You are such a goon!

[JayB]

The free marketeers have had that free hand so far up their asses for so long (~30 years as a matter of fact) that it's proving after all to be a little distraction, isn't it JayB? You seem to have forgotten all that wonderful rhetoric about "big government" and "nanny state" and "welfare queens" ... "let them eat jelly beans" and all that. Isn't it after all a good thingthat your pals couldn't quite "drown government in a bathtub"?

 

Anyhow, I am not coming out of retirement but I have been itching to come jeering at you and your pal PP, who doesn't seem too keen either on denouncing this massive bailout of financial markets. What a surprise .... not!

 

Whoa! Voice from the dead. I'm just amazed that you were able to use the telephone that you're leasing from the American Telephone and Telegraph company to connect to this interface, which you must be doing - given your passionate aversion to all outcomes associated with deregulation. How does one translate tones into characters?

 

Clearly you haven't been lurking all *that* frequently if you've come to the conclusion that I've been a cheerleader for the status quo in the real estate market and the financial markets associated with it, or the subsidies that have been used to support it, or bailouts for the people who took unwise gambles - whether that's individuals or institutions.

 

I think it's clear that the rules need to be modified so that the financial markets function better, and in a way that makes it dramatically less likely that any participants in the marketplace will put officials working withing the government in a position where bailing them out seems like the least of many evils ever again in the future. It's not so clear that we need to dismantle the entire financial system and replace it with a central bureaucratic mechanism controlled by the state. Sorry. This is not the LeftiRapture that you've been waiting for.

 

Markets work fine when you get the rules right.

[j_b]

Whoa! Voice from the dead. I'm just amazed that you were able to use the telephone that you're leasing from the American Telephone and Telegraph company to connect to this interface, which you must be doing - given your passionate aversion to all outcomes associated with deregulation. How does one translate tones into characters?

 

why don't you call it for what it is: a de facto monopoly on broadband and cable

 

Clearly you haven't been lurking all *that* frequently if you've come to the conclusion that I've been a cheerleader for the status quo in the real estate market and the financial markets associated with it, or the subsidies that have been used to support it, or bailouts for the people who took unwise gambles - whether that's individuals or institutions.

 

I think it's clear that the rules need to be modified so that the financial markets function better,

 

"function better" ROTFL. It's the euphemism of the year! It is not a matter of functionning better,it's a matter of preventing rampant speculation leading to collapse.

 

and in a way that makes it dramatically less likely that any participants in the marketplace will put officials working withing the government in a position where bailing them out seems like the least of many evils ever again in the future. It's not so clear that we need to dismantle the entire financial system and replace it with a central bureaucratic mechanism controlled by the state. Sorry. This is not the LeftiRapture that you've been waiting for.

 

Markets work fine when you get the rules right.

 

So there is a need for rules after all! Why is it that your type had been serenading us about the "self-regulating nature of markets"? Anyhow it's good to see that you are backtracking and conceding that there is a need for regulation. I'll leave you to your scary stories about "central bureaucratic mechanism controlled by the state"; you can always tell it to the children to keep them in line.

[JayB]

Hey - just how long is this non-retirement of yours going to last? Do we need to have an online intervention to prevent a relapse?

 

Where are these free-market advocates that don't allow a function for law enforcement, the judicial system, the legislature, etc in society? These are universally acknowledged pre-requisites for a market economy. You seem to be mistaking a desire to limit the the role of government to those places where it's necessary, and restricting or eliminating it from those places where its not, to anarchism. That's the best you can do after rehearsing these arguments in your head for three years? Very disappointing, I must say.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Hey - just how long is this non-retirement of yours going to last? Do we need to have an online intervention to prevent a relapse?

 

Where are these free-market advocates that don't allow a function for law enforcement, the judicial system, the legislature, etc in society? These are universally acknowledged pre-requisites for a market economy. You seem to be mistaking a desire to limit the goal of confining the role of government to those places where it's necessary, and restricting or eliminating it from those places where its not, to anarchism. That's the best you can do after rehearsing these arguments in your head for three years? Very disappointing, I must say.

 

 

 

 

It must be hilarious when you guys introduce yourselves in realspace as a cc.com'er:

 

"what's your Avatar"?

"jay bee"

 

Ohh....

 

[JayB]

Hey - just how long is this non-retirement of yours going to last? Do we need to have an online intervention to prevent a relapse?

 

Where are these free-market advocates that don't allow a function for law enforcement, the judicial system, the legislature, etc in society? These are universally acknowledged pre-requisites for a market economy. You seem to be mistaking a desire to limit the goal of confining the role of government to those places where it's necessary, and restricting or eliminating it from those places where its not, to anarchism. That's the best you can do after rehearsing these arguments in your head for three years? Very disappointing, I must say.

 

 

 

 

It must be hilarious when you guys introduce yourselves in realspace as a cc.com'er:

 

"what's your Avatar"?

"jay bee"

 

Ohh....

 

Already happened, to much humorous effect.

 

Introduced myself as "JayB" and got a puzzlingly warm reception from Alison the first time that we met at a PubClub on Phinney a few years ago ('02, I think).

 

I've enjoyed her company in person, but don't think the original reception would have been quite the same if the deceptive homonym hadn't been in effect...

[j_b]

Hey - just how long is this non-retirement of yours going to last? Do we need to have an online intervention to prevent a relapse?

 

Of course, a little demonizing always comes handy when you don't know what to respond. But you haven't said "dirty hippie"" and invoked "kumbaya" yet, so you still have some ammunition in your tired bag of insults.

 

Where are these free-market advocates that don't allow a function for law enforcement, the judicial system, the legislature, etc in society? These are universally acknowledged pre-requisites for a market economy. You seem to be mistaking a desire to limit the the role of government to those places where it's necessary, and restricting or eliminating it from those places where its not, to anarchism. That's the best you can do after rehearsing these arguments in your head for three years? Very disappointing, I must say.

 

oh yeah, because the fed pumping 100's of billions of dollars of public money into financial market to stave off financial collapse of the world economy is standard government intervention, right? The zealots have done everything they could to escape market regulations, through 2 huge speculative bubbles and now they claim they always were for regulations to help the market "function better". Franckly that is transparent and laughable.

 

You guys have as much intellectual integrity as earth worms, but we knew that already.

[JayB]

This Fed?

 

"ECB pumps record €348 billion into money markets

 

FRANKFURT: The European Central Bank pumped a record €348 billion into the financial system Tuesday, dramatically easing the tight conditions in credit markets that have been grappling with a global lending crunch linked to the U.S. housing crisis, on top of traditional year-end demands for ready cash.

 

Interest rates for two-week loans - the maturity at which the ECB lent the colossal sum, equal to $501 billion, to banks - plunged a half percentage point, or 50 basis points, to 4.45 percent, reflecting the vastly increased supply of money being provided by the lender of last resort. The duration of the loans should ensure that liquidity is readily available through the end of the year, credit analysts said.

 

The Bank of England also did its part, auctioning off £10 billion, or $20.12 billion, in three-month loans. But Mervyn King, the governor of the British bank, conceded that central banks were reaching the limits of their ability to ease the five-month-old credit crisis."

 

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/12/18/business/credit.php

 

Now that you are back, I invite you to amuse yourself by searching through my abundant posts on the housing bubble, and then pointing out the specific stances I've taken that - were they translated into policy - would have contributed to the said speculative bubble.

 

Once you've finished that, you can explain what mechanism you would have used to prevent equity values from increasing beyond the historical P/E ratios between 1995 and 2001.