RuMR Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 Don't be an idiot. As stated above, I take Arabic. I study history and religion. I am not totally ignorant, and I don't plan on maintaining the vast ignorance I do have. or maybe I just misinterpreted your post? you can be forgiven for misinterpreting his post...apparently, he can't talk too well with trash's cock in his mouf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Ok, so I'm not the smart one in the group. Comes as no surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuMR Posted February 12, 2008 Author Share Posted February 12, 2008 Don't need a Muslim participant to justify folks' opinions on this thread. especially if they're moronic pot kettle black...errr, in your case potbelly kettle black... No kidding. And these opinions, especially Sobo's, don't seem like they came from the mouths of fools who didn't think them through. Since when did an opinion instantly get labled "moronic" as soon as it diverged from one's own? What a flat world to live in... oh...i think trashie is more "round" than flat... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Don't need a Muslim participant to justify folks' opinions on this thread. especially if they're moronic pot kettle black...errr, in your case potbelly kettle black... No kidding. And these opinions, especially Sobo's, don't seem like they came from the mouths of fools who didn't think them through. Since when did an opinion instantly get labled "moronic" as soon as it diverged from one's own? What a flat world to live in... oh...i think trashie is more "round" than flat... I'd say everyone's a moron, some are just sub-morons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Thread killer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I was of the impression that there are hundreds of millions of Muslims (billion perhaps?) around the world and that not all of them, or even a majority of them are not quite so reactionary, violent and intolerant. But I could be wrong. I haven't done a poll or anything. Perhaps it is all black and white. Good and evil. All Muslims around the world are intolerant and violently so. And Islam in general and in totality is evil. If the people waging jihad represent a deluded minority who are acting in absolute contravention of the central tennets of the Muslim faith, why is it that we have seen scores of demonstrations around the world in response to the publication of a cartoon depicting their prophet, but no such demonstrations against those who have besmirched their faith by invoking it to justify their threats and violence? How about marches against suicide violence in which the mistaken few invoke their religion to deliberately slaughter as many civilians as possible? Do you reckon that the fact that the folks who have plotted this particular atrocity represent some indeterminate "non-majority" of the faithful provides much comfort either for the people who are on the wrong end of the death threats for violating Muslim taboos, or to those who wish to do so without living in fear for their lives? Moreover the people committing these deliberate atrocities - like the Taliban, like the Wahhabis - seem to be quite sincere in their belief that it is they, not the moderates, who are both living and acting in the most strict accordance with the perogatives of their faith? How do you know that they are incorrect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Thread killer. Hugh Conway kills threads dead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 I find it rather bizarre who tends to come to the defense of Islam. Why? To those special ones: don't y'all think it's possible that some people actually do know a lot about Islam, and maybe that's precisely why they do not subscribe to said beliefs and ideology? Just because you're ignorant doesn't mean we all are, though you're certainly free to hold such a view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sobo, You're the one that suggested that the Muslim World take a look around at the rest of the world and evolve or become enlightened. Where should "they" look? Furthermore, this, Once again, Islam, ostensibly a religion of tolerance and peace, shows it's true fundamentalist colors. is bigoted nonsense, and inconsistent with your subsequent statements you'd last less than a week in an islamic theocracy Do you ever just shut the fuck up? It's funny how these Islam threads never have a single Muslim participant...just a bunch of stupid fucking white morons who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground regarding that topic. "Oh, but I've read a lot about it..." The notion that you have to be an observant member of any particular faith in order to evaluate the doctrines of the said faith, or the conduct of those who claim to be acting in accordance with its principles is some of the more inspired idiocy that I've encountered in quite a while. Bravo. "Were *you* and orthodox Catholic Spanish Inquisitor in the 15th century church? NO? That's what I thought..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenSeagal Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 If the people waging jihad represent a deluded minority who are acting in absolute contravention of the central tennets of the Muslim faith, why is it that we have seen scores of demonstrations around the world in response to the publication of a cartoon depicting their prophet, but no such demonstrations against those who have besmirched their faith by invoking it to justify their threats and violence? How about marches against suicide violence in which the mistaken few invoke their religion to deliberately slaughter as many civilians as possible? It is possible that those in the theoretical majority who would otherwise engage in the above mentioned protestations against fundamentalist violence refrain from doing so for fear they might be KILLED IN THE STREETS by the "deluded minority"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 And that is reason to let it go on? In our own country, blacks were lynched for decades for speaking out. But in the end, they won. They won because they were right and they knew they were right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 "We are apostates of Islam. We denounce Islam as a false doctrine of hate and terror. However we are not against Muslims who are our own kin and relatives. We do not advocate hate and violence. Muslims are the main victims of Islam. Our goal is to educate them and let them see the truth. We are against Islam and not the Muslims. We strive to bring the Muslims into the fold of humanity. Eradicate Islam so our people can be liberated, so they can prosper and break away from the pillory of Islam. We would like to see Islamic countries dedicate more time to science and less time to Quran and Sharia. We would like to see them prosper and contribute to human civilization. We would like to see the draconian laws of Islam eliminated and people are treated humanely. We strive for freedom of beliefs, for equality of gender and for oneness of mankind. Mankind’s biggest challenge: Today the humanity is facing a great danger. Islamic fundamentalism is on the rise and the hatred is brewing in the minds of millions of Muslims. This hatred must be contained or there would be disastrous consequences. We believe that the education is the only answer. Muslim intellectuals must realize that Islam is a false doctrine and they must let the rest of Islamic world know the truth. Islam is a religion that thrives on the arrogant assumption that it is the most logical, the most scientific and the most perfect religion. While the fact is that it is the stupidest doctrine — the most backward and absurd belief. Once the truth about Islam becomes common knowledge, it will be weakened and the Islamic fanaticism will lose its fangs. Hundreds of billions of dollars are being expended to combat Islamic terrorism, yet no effort is made to contain the ideology behind this terrorism. It is our belief that Islamic terrorism will not be eliminated unless and until the ideology behind it is exposed and eradicated. This is what we intend to do." If one accepts Tvash's ludicrous proposition, then we are still left with the matter of what argument to employ against these folks. http://www.apostatesofislam.com/index.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 kind of like the theoretical majority of Germans opposed to the Nazis. do you give them a free pass? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hugh Conway Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 at least they were against communism Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archenemy Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Hey yeah, there's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaskadskyjKozak Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 while being closer to it than they believed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 If the people waging jihad represent a deluded minority who are acting in absolute contravention of the central tennets of the Muslim faith, why is it that we have seen scores of demonstrations around the world in response to the publication of a cartoon depicting their prophet, but no such demonstrations against those who have besmirched their faith by invoking it to justify their threats and violence? How about marches against suicide violence in which the mistaken few invoke their religion to deliberately slaughter as many civilians as possible? It is possible that those in the theoretical majority who would otherwise engage in the above mentioned protestations against fundamentalist violence refrain from doing so for fear they might be KILLED IN THE STREETS by the "deluded minority"? That's one possible explanation, but it's difficult to apply to the millions of Muslims who live in states where the state security apparatus would not permit such retributions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenSeagal Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 For Christ's sake. I'm not advocating silence or inaction. Just that if you ask "where's all the anti-fundamentalist protestors in Iraq (for example)?", I'm saying, maybe half of them are scattered in pieces all over the market, and the other half are hiding in their homes scared shitless or trying to figure out how to get out of the country. It's pretty easy to criticize people living in that paradigm if you don't consider the fear of death they must live under from day to day. On the other hand, it might be fair to question the lack of vocalization from those Muslims living in freer societies. Although even then- when things such as the death plots against cartoonists in Denmark, and authors like Rushdie living in Britain demonstrate that the long arm of the extremists extends to even free societies, there could be a feeling that there is nowhere to hide from these fuckers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 (edited) "Hundreds of billions of dollars are being expended to combat Islamic terrorism, yet no effort is made to contain the ideology behind this terrorism." History may show this statement to describe the single biggest failure of the Bush administration. I think one of the most important fights we can wage should be for freedom of information across the globe. When the entirity of global communications is freely allowed into every home and office without censorship, free societies are only a matter of time. An educated populace will prevail, the trick is to educate the populace. ps. SS I think there is truth in what you said. I just wish you would have inserted an awesome movie title or something. Edited February 13, 2008 by ClimbingPanther Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StevenSeagal Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ps. SS I think there is truth in what you said. I just wish you would have inserted an awesome movie title or something. What I meant to say was, perhaps the theoretical non vocal majority of Muslims would be Marked for Death if they spoke out. A few of them have proven Hard to Kill by these sons a bitches who think they are Above the Law. If this keeps up, I may have to go Into the Sun and put al Qaida Under Siege. :: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimZam Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 More insanity from the land of Allah (all praises due). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7241723.stm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayB Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Stats from the Pew Global Survey Note that the stats in the first table don't include the "sometimes/rarely" and "never" stats... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClimbingPanther Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 let the inquisition begin for the curious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 Sobo, You're the one that suggested that the Muslim World take a look around at the rest of the world and evolve or become enlightened. Where should "they" look? Furthermore, this, Once again, Islam, ostensibly a religion of tolerance and peace, shows it's true fundamentalist colors. is bigoted nonsense, and inconsistent with your subsequent statements See my last post on the bottom of the first page of this thread. That statement was made in haste, and I thought it was harsh at the time I wrote it, and I later retracted its implied inclusivity. However, I will not retract any statement I've made previously that fundamentalists and/or extremists get a free pass from me to exhibit intolerance and violent over-reactions, to include stonings to death and pre-meditated murder. Now, to your next topic... They can look anywhere they damn well please where people are engaging in peaceful public discourse of divergent ideas. That is how truly enlightened populations work out their differences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sobo Posted February 13, 2008 Share Posted February 13, 2008 ...just a bunch of stupid fucking white morons who don't know their ass from a hole in the ground regarding that topic. "Oh, but I've read a lot about it..." tvash, I'm assuming that you're referring to me by that remark, so I'll bite that bait... Since I do not ever intend upon becoming a Muslim (or a Jew, or a Bhuddist, or a Hindi, or Zoroaster, or returning to any form of Christianity, or any other religion for that matter), the first best option of self-immersion is not open to me by my own volition. The next best option, personal observation of the source material, is also problematic for me, since I'd probably be killed within a few days for expressing any sort of contrary opinion in their host country. So I'm left with but a paltry third option, that of reading what I can about the subject material, from as many varied viewpoints as possible. Do you have some other option which I might employ to better educate my stupid fucking white moronic ass on these matters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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