Republican or Democrat...

[JosephH]

if statements like this don't frighten you then you have long since decided the Constitution of the United States is simply a document of desirable guidelines for governance:

 

AG nominee Mr. Mukasey said "...the president’s authority as commander in chief might allow him to supersede laws written by Congress."

 

[cj001f]

thats why I'm a drunkard

[kevbone]

if statements like this don't frighten you then you have long since decided the Constitution of the United States is simply a document of desirable guidelines for governance:

 

AG nominee Mr. Mukasey said "...the president’s authority as commander in chief might allow him to supersede laws written by Congress."

 

 

Oh I am frightened.....it seems some on this site still back up the commander in chief.....weird.

 

Furthermore…….when Bill Clinton lied about getting a blow job…the congress moved full steam ahead to impeach him…..but when out current leader tears up the constitution in the face of the us citizens….the current congress hides like cowering bunnies…..WTF. Where is all the back bones?

[tvashtarkatena]

Given the increasing deference that both the Supreme Court and Congress have shown to the Executive in recent times, it seems as though we're governed more by monarchy than democracy these days. We can vote all we want, but when the Executive ignores the laws, and the Congress and Courts refuse to sanction him for it, what else can you call it?

 

There is one aspect to this that is democratic, and that is where to place blame for this erosion of democratic power: Us. For decades we've screamed for a 'strong leadership' rather than a weak president whom we can keep in check and, well, we got what we asked for.

 

I wonder if our 'lay down the credit card, let someone else do it' culture might have something to do with it. Have we become too detached from controlling various aspects of our daily lives, and thus less independent? Remember our parent's 'do it yourself' mantra? OK, that resulted in some really fucking ugly home additions, but in any case, you get my point. How many of us are involved in governing our own local neighborhoods or townships, which constitute such an important factor in our daily well being? When someone throws up a super fucking ugly apartment complex or a Walmart next door, how many of us feel that we have a say in determining the quality of life and asthetics of our community? That kind of local control is a rarity these days.

 

I would say that we have, as individuals, deferred the decision making in many aspects of our lives to others, right up to the President. So now we have an AG appointee saying "um, fuck off" to the rule of law. We reaping what we've allowed others to sow.

Edited October 19, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[KaskadskyjKozak]

and when congress singles out individual citizens for "repudiation" letters, that's totally fine, doesn't phase you hypocrites at all.

 

[Seahawks]

and when the Nobel is given to a fricking idiot who lives in a house that waste more energy that 10 houses and flies his polluting plane all over the globe, the world is coming to and end.

[kevbone]

and when the Nobel is given to a fricking idiot who lives in a house that waste more energy that 10 houses and flies his polluting plane all over the globe, the world is coming to and end.

 

 

 

Dude….you voted for Bush……you have no credibility…..nuff said.

 

 

[ClimbingPanther]

I wonder if our 'lay down the credit card, let someone else do it' culture might have something to do with it. Have we become too detached from controlling various aspects of our daily lives, and thus less independent? Remember our parent's 'do it yourself' mantra? OK, that resulted in some really fucking ugly home additions, but in any case, you get my point. How many of us are involved in governing our own local neighborhoods or townships, which constitute such an important factor in our daily well being? When someone throws up a super fucking ugly apartment complex or a Walmart next door, how many of us feel that we have a say in determining the quality of life and asthetics of our community? That kind of local control is a rarity these days.

 

I would say that we have, as individuals, deferred the decision making in many aspects of our lives to others, right up to the President. So now we have an AG appointee saying "um, fuck off" to the rule of law. We reaping what we've allowed others to sow.

 

you're talkin sense right herr. that's exactly what's going on, people won't rise up and exercise the power of the people, which is spos'd to be where the power came from in the first place... a really uneducated society might be better off deferring to a monarch, but the cultural complacency towards Bush's subtle power grab is pretty unacceptable with our level of education.

 

[chucK]

the world is coming to and end.

[Jim]

and when congress singles out individual citizens for "repudiation" letters, that's totally fine, doesn't phase you hypocrites at all.

 

Congress did no such thing. A handful of Senators and Congressmen did, however.

 

On the larger question. We've gotten the leaders we deserve. I consistently try to recruit folks for our neighborhood committees or at least to show up to the once a month meetings - too busy. Volunteer for some NGO, the school. Good luck. By and by I've come to the conclusion that folks don't care, or don't care enough to try and make a difference.

 

"I'd like to change the world, but I don't know what to do - so I'll leave it up to you".

[KaskadskyjKozak]

and when congress singles out individual citizens for "repudiation" letters, that's totally fine, doesn't phase you hypocrites at all.

 

Congress did no such thing. A handful of Senators and Congressmen did, however.

 

Dude, that's the kind of bullshit we don't need in this country. Your comment above is just as evasive and rationalizing as this pathetic comment below:

 

When asked by Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-Rhode Island, if waterboarding was constitutional, Mukasey responded "I don't know what's involved in the techniques. If waterboarding is torture, torture is not constitutional."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/18/mukasey.hearing/index.html

[archenemy]

"I'd like to change the world, but I don't know what to do - so I'll leave it up to you".

I think it's all gotten a bit overwhelming. We can't avoid having the "big picture" in front of us all the time; and so the thought of doing little things doesn't seem to be enough. And with everyone all ready to jump your shit over any wasteful action, it gets to be pointless. Nevermind you recycle, if you don't drive a hybrid you're a hypocrite. Nevermind you donate to environmental causes, you use nice soft asswipe and you're a fake. It gets tiresome.

[archenemy]

and when congress singles out individual citizens for "repudiation" letters, that's totally fine, doesn't phase you hypocrites at all.

 

Congress did no such thing. A handful of Senators and Congressmen did, however.

 

Dude, that's the kind of bullshit we don't need in this country. Your comment above is just as evasive and rationalizing as this pathetic comment below:

 

When asked by Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-Rhode Island, if waterboarding was constitutional, Mukasey responded "I don't know what's involved in the techniques. If waterboarding is torture, torture is not constitutional."

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/18/mukasey.hearing/index.html

I don't understand the quote. Isn't torture unconstitutional regardless of whether waterboarding is or is not torture?

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I don't understand the quote. Isn't torture unconstitutional regardless of whether waterboarding is or is not torture?

 

He will not answer the damn question, because the evidence is that we have done water boarding.

 

[Jim]

and when congress singles out individual citizens for "repudiation" letters, that's totally fine, doesn't phase you hypocrites at all.

 

Congress did no such thing. A handful of Senators and Congressmen did, however.

 

Dude, that's the kind of bullshit we don't need in this country. Your comment above is just as evasive and rationalizing as this pathetic comment below:

 

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/10/18/mukasey.hearing/index.html

 

Nothing ambiguous about it. Just a fact. You either need to break open Webster's or the Civics book.

[archenemy]

I don't understand the quote. Isn't torture unconstitutional regardless of whether waterboarding is or is not torture?

 

He will not answer the damn question, because the evidence is that we have done water boarding.

So what is the alternate suggestion? We just ask nicely and say pretty please? When did we become such pussies?

I agree that things like electrocuting someones balls or having dogs gnaw their feet off is not nice. But come on, putting a wet washcloth on someone's face can't really be the cause of all this commotion, can it?

[Jim]

"I'd like to change the world, but I don't know what to do - so I'll leave it up to you".

I think it's all gotten a bit overwhelming. We can't avoid having the "big picture" in front of us all the time; and so the thought of doing little things doesn't seem to be enough. And with everyone all ready to jump your shit over any wasteful action, it gets to be pointless. Nevermind you recycle, if you don't drive a hybrid you're a hypocrite. Nevermind you donate to environmental causes, you use nice soft asswipe and you're a fake. It gets tiresome.

 

I sympathize. My philosopy these days is "do something - anything" besides go to work, consume, play, die. People are much more seperated from community life these days. They're not invested. But if you work some volunteer time into the rythmn of you life - it works.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

Nothing ambiguous about it. Just a fact. You either need to break open Webster's or the Civics book.

 

Bullshit! A couple dozen congressmen put this letter together. They represent the USA and federal authority. What they did is what I'd expect from Stalinist Russia or Goebbels. And YOU would AGREE if Republican congressman had done this.

 

[archenemy]

"I'd like to change the world, but I don't know what to do - so I'll leave it up to you".

I think it's all gotten a bit overwhelming. We can't avoid having the "big picture" in front of us all the time; and so the thought of doing little things doesn't seem to be enough. And with everyone all ready to jump your shit over any wasteful action, it gets to be pointless. Nevermind you recycle, if you don't drive a hybrid you're a hypocrite. Nevermind you donate to environmental causes, you use nice soft asswipe and you're a fake. It gets tiresome.

 

I sympathize. My philosopy these days is "do something - anything" besides go to work, consume, play, die. People are much more seperated from community life these days. They're not invested. But if you work some volunteer time into the rythmn of you life - it works.

I agree, I am all for that. I enjoy volunteering and find satisfaction in that. But I have found over the years that I volunteer less for people-focused stuff and more for environment-focused stuff. That concerns me--mostly b/c I think I have less hope for people than I do for trees. Or maybe just less empathy. Or less patience. Whatever it is, I don't think it's good.

[Jim]

I don't understand the quote. Isn't torture unconstitutional regardless of whether waterboarding is or is not torture?

 

He will not answer the damn question, because the evidence is that we have done water boarding.

So what is the alternate suggestion? We just ask nicely and say pretty please? When did we become such pussies?

I agree that things like electrocuting someones balls or having dogs gnaw their feet off is not nice. But come on, putting a wet washcloth on someone's face can't really be the cause of all this commotion, can it?

 

It's a little more severe than that - I hope your sarcasm is avoiding me. We've signed the treaties regarding torture and seem to be doing things with a wink and a nod. We're better than this. And - professionals know that information gained by torture is much less dependable than more tested, professional techniques.

[Seahawks]

and when the Nobel is given to a fricking idiot who lives in a house that waste more energy that 10 houses and flies his polluting plane all over the globe, the world is coming to and end.

 

 

 

Dude….you voted for Bush……you have no credibility…..nuff said.

 

 

Dude your an idiot who can't think for himself, Nuff said.

[Jim]

Nothing ambiguous about it. Just a fact. You either need to break open Webster's or the Civics book.

 

Bullshit! A couple dozen congressmen put this letter together. They represent the USA and federal authority. What they did is what I'd expect from Stalinist Russia or Goebbels. And YOU would AGREE if Republican congressman had done this.

 

No - I would agree that they were getting worked up over a dust bunny just as the dems have. They have no individual authority outside their body. Clue in.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

So what is the alternate suggestion? We just ask nicely and say pretty please? When did we become such pussies?

 

Yes, actually it does seem to be what all the fuss is about.

 

The other things we apparently do are sleep deprivation, long interrogations, threatening detainees that they'll never see their family again, etc. All psychological stuff. Some physical discomfort (without permanent damage).

 

OTOH we kow-tow to Muslims at Gitmo, giving them Korans, letting them pray 5 times a day according to their practices, and feeding them according to their dietary restrictions.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

It's a little more severe than that - I hope your sarcasm is avoiding me. We've signed the treaties regarding torture and seem to be doing things with a wink and a nod.

 

"seem to be"? "things"? Be clear man. Exactly what are we doing? Besides waterboarding, that YOU consider torture?

[Peter_Puget]

Jim -

 

Would you please describe to me the techniques we could use that would be just short of torture. In short a practical guide if you will.