Which one of you is lost?

[builder206]

Builder206 is probably one of those guys/gals you see heading up to Snow Lake on a sunny morning in August sweating under full brush-bashing regalia and a 30 lb pack .

 

30 pounds? Try 50! NO WAY would I go out without my Helly Hansens, flare gun, and hand-cranked radio.

[JayB]

I suspect that I wind up carrying more gear than most folks, but one old guys I ran into when I was learning to lead on gear had a saying that he passed along to me, which was "If you're not good enough to protect it, you're not good enough to climb it."

 

What he meant was that even if you had the physical skills necessary to lead a climb, if your lead consisted of sketching your way up the route with inadequate gear - then you were more lucky than good and really had no business getting on the route in the first place.

 

IMO - if you find yourself ditching or reluctant to carry the survival gear that you (not Steve House, your buddy who leads three number grades higher than you and is in way better shape, the you of ten years ago - you, in your present condition)need to handle a route, then you have no business setting foot on the route. Choose a different route, wait for more forgiving conditions, step-up your game at the crags, train more - whatever.

 

I'm as inspired by the feats of regular Joe's that go out and crush long, hard-routes car-to-car style, but there's often a considerable gap between admiration and emulation, and I try to remember that. I'm certain I'll make mistakes, get caught out in storms, etc - but I hope that I'll always leave enough of a margin to live through whatever cluster I blunder into.

[cj001f]

I always carry a CAT D9, 3 kegs of beer, 4 inflatable love dolls, 2 brasilian hookers and a gross of condoms. I'm the uber mountie sickie

[builder206]

Mounties wouldn't know what to do with the hookers or the condoms.

Edited September 23, 2007 by builder206

[Dechristo]

I'm the uber mountie sickie

 

Some are uber mounties, some uber mounters.

[cj001f]

Mounties wouldn't know what to do with the hookers or the condoms.

 

For a subaru dating service they sound like a short bus gang.

[billcoe]

Anyone not getting frigged up once in a while probably isn't getting out. Always nice to have a little extra conditioning up your sleeve to get that extra effort that pulls the old ass out of the fire.

 

It's a damn sight easier to judge other from the safety and comfort of a computer Seahawks, although I thought Builder had thought it through pretty good. It dod sound like there was no compass or GPS, but stationary?

[tvashtarkatena]

I suspect that I wind up carrying more gear than most folks, but one old guys I ran into when I was learning to lead on gear had a saying that he passed along to me, which was "If you're not good enough to protect it, you're not good enough to climb it."

 

 

I learned a different addage: "If you carry bivvy gear, you will bivvy". Or, more simply put, speed is safety.

 

You can survive a lot with a 1 oz emergency bivvy sack and a lighter, but carrying pounds of extra gear 'just in case' usually increases the chance of crawling your way into an unwanted and dangerous situation.

[builder206]

Mounties wouldn't know what to do with the hookers or the condoms.

 

For a subaru dating service they sound like a short bus gang.

 

Well, some mounties, anyway.

[JayB]

I suspect that I wind up carrying more gear than most folks, but one old guys I ran into when I was learning to lead on gear had a saying that he passed along to me, which was "If you're not good enough to protect it, you're not good enough to climb it."

 

 

I learned a different addage: "If you carry bivvy gear, you will bivvy". Or, more simply put, speed is safety.

 

You can survive a lot with a 1 oz emergency bivvy sack and a lighter, but carrying pounds of extra gear 'just in case' usually increases the chance of crawling your way into an unwanted and dangerous situation.

 

For some, yes. For others - no.

 

For some people on some objectives light = speed = safety.

 

For other people on other objectives light = unable to survive the night/storm/accident = dead.

 

It depends.

 

For me personally - on a winter route, not being fit enough to carry a half-bag, insulating jacket, half an insulating pad pocket rocket, small pot, epic-bivy, a bit of extra food, along with a shovel and enough fuel to last at least a day longer than I plan to be out split between myself and whoever I'm on the route with means that I'm not fit or competent enough to do the route.

 

YMMV.

 

 

[STP]

Or, more simply put, speed is safety.

 

Is it that formulaic? Seems sense, rather than speed, is safety and more specifically, sense is mountain sense gained primarily through personal experience.

 

Speed seems to, more appropriately, refer to how much risk you're willing to assume. Granted if you have enough mountain sense then all usually ends well.

[builder206]

This thread began with a bunch of hostile vitriol, obscenity, and puerile name-calling but is ending as a thoughtful & nuanced discussion about an important topic. In other words, it's totally unnatural.

[catbirdseat]

WTF, seahawks? I knew you were dumb, but I didn't think you were an asshole.

 

Lucky for you CBS is too nice of a guy to make you eat shit.

 

Like I care?? I've been tossed so much shit here if I can't throw a little back then kiss off. If you can't handle it leave.

and isn't that nice, running to defend your friend. What ever bunch of two faced idiots.

 

 

 

 

Seahawks, I haven't been flipping you shit, and at least Rob gets out and climbs (I've climbed with him) and post trip reports. What have you done?

[Fairweather]

I suspect that I wind up carrying more gear than most folks, but one old guys I ran into when I was learning to lead on gear had a saying that he passed along to me, which was "If you're not good enough to protect it, you're not good enough to climb it."

 

 

I learned a different addage: "If you carry bivvy gear, you will bivvy". Or, more simply put, speed is safety.

 

You can survive a lot with a 1 oz emergency bivvy sack and a lighter, but carrying pounds of extra gear 'just in case' usually increases the chance of crawling your way into an unwanted and dangerous situation.

 

That "extra 40" you're packin around your middle probably gives you an edge in that snowcave day 5 too, eh?

[Bug]

I just carry an extra 20. But that's down from 25 so I'm buying more gear for winter.