adjustable daisies

[dan_forester]

thinking about getting some yates or metolius adjustable daisies for aiding.

 

anyone have thoughts on how adjustable daisies compare to standard daisies + fifi hook?

 

will I finally be able to break the top-step barrier?

 

thanks.

[fenderfour]

Adjustable daisies are the shit. Don't listen to the standard daisy folks.

 

No, you won't be able to break the top-step barrier. That's more about nuts than daisies.

 

The top step barrier is easily broken with Russian Aiders, but they are a real bitch to find.

[ivan]

i've used both and prefer the old-school daisy n' fifi - releasing the tension on the adjustable and getting it back to it's main length is a pain in the ass to do over and over again compared to hooking in w/ the fifi, which is instantenous and effortless

[letsroll]

a quick seach on RC will give you plans on how to make your own russian aiders. I would be conserned about wear on the webbing and the lock device. How often would you have to replace them vs. reg daisies. Agree about nuts vs. equip on top stepping. Some times i have nuts other times I don't

 

[fenderfour]

The webbing does wear, but its not that big of a deal. The Fish daisies are a lot burlier than Metolius.

[billcoe]

i've used both and prefer the old-school daisy n' fifi - releasing the tension on the adjustable and getting it back to it's main length is a pain in the ass to do over and over again compared to hooking in w/ the fifi, which is instantenous and effortless

 

CONCUR.

 

BTW, Dan, the best fifi for hard aid is an adjustable one, and the best aiders are like ladders, and have the rungs on tops closer together.

 

IMO not like this:

 

 

Like this

 

and this:

 

 

Lot of personal preference here. I climbed on home made, hand tied steps for years and years and it was fine. Then a real cold, real windy ascent of the WF of Monkey with that mank brought home the value of the ladder steps.

 

I have a couple of yates adjustable daisys I'll loan you if you have a route in mind and you just want to see. These are the ones with the built in screamers. *Cough* Gearwhore* Cough*

[Kevin_Matlock]

I find that I can't top step as easy with the adjustables but I still like 'em better. I usually just keep the fifi attached for the extra close up (plus mine is dialed to where I like it for easier high stepping).

 

The problem with adjustables is that you gotta be careful of keeping the release lever away from the wall. Allowing a biner or some other gear to press it will scare the piss out of you.

[fgw]

another option might be normal daisies + adjustable fifi:

 

[Kevin_Matlock]

never tried 'em, but heard that they are sketch unless threaded JUST RIGHT.

[dan_forester]

thanks for all the thoughts. I hadn't thought about an adjustable fifi...does it adjust w/ a friction hitch of some kind? any of you who use it ever have a problem with it slipping?

 

bill, I'll probably take you up on that offer to check out the yates adjustable daisies.

[billcoe]

The Dash for trash is coming up and I can bring em then. If you need them sooner, lets just hook up. My arm is all tweak (most of my joints), and I'm taking the next few days off, so call or email me.

 

 

[fgw]

does it adjust w/ a friction hitch of some kind? any of you who use it ever have a problem with it slipping?

yes - you can almost see in that photo I linked. From my limited experience, once it's locked it stays that way but sometimes if you don't take enough care to 'dress up' the hitch it can slip.

[gt5816v]

That's some manky looking FP! From Steins Pillar?

 

another option might be normal daisies + adjustable fifi:

 

[fgw]

yeah - it's steins.

[billcoe]

How about a full report here after you try them out Dan?

[chris]

Kong makes a nifty - and far cheaper - adjustable daisy buckle that you then have to string with 8mm cord and add a biner. I have a pair and completely dig them. I got mine from Pagan Mountaineering in Moab.

[dan_forester]

How about a full report here after you try them out Dan?

 

Bill that sounds like an excellent idea; if the weather cooperates I will be giving them a try this weekend. Thanks again!

[G-spotter]

Adjustable fifi =

Adjustable daisies = body weight only =

[Kevin_Matlock]

batboy has spoken; end of discussion.

 

fine, take your adjustable fifi, but the daisies in an aid setup are suppose to be body weight only, or have I missed the point of aid climbing all this time.

pro = fall impact

daisies = advancement and the shortest of short drops since they are static.

 

care to elaborate Dru?

[G-spotter]

You go with two daisies (like normal, one to each aider) and one adjustable fifi. Then your daisies stay clipped full-length and full strength and you just winch up to each piece with the fifi while staying backed up.

 

With adjustable daisies, you are replacing two full strength daisies with two body weight only links. Which sucks for a lot of reasons. It might be slightly simpler because you have 2 connectors off your harness instead of 3 (2 daisys + one adjustable fifi) but you are trading safety for simplicity.

 

In either case you have the rope there I guess but I just think it's simpler to only have one adjustable thing to play with. Place piece, clip daisy to it, hook in fifi, winch in, hang/balance, place next piece, clip other daisy, hang, move fifi up and repeat. Really fast.

[billcoe]

Yup, I see Pass the Pitons Pete raves about adjustable and claims that they are the "better way" cause you can pull yourself up with them (using your arms).

 

I've only found that it slows you down. Since I can only do 3 pullups anyway, well, I've got a real limited day if I started doing that stuff.

 

 

[fenderfour]

I really like adjustables, but I rarely weight my daisy.

 

Russian aiders make it a lot easier to hold yourself up without dealing with daisy tension. I start using tension on the daisies when it gets over 90 degrees.

[Moof]

I've the three brands I know of:

 

Yates: Work great, expect to replace the webbing (avaialble from Fish) after a 2-3 walls when it gets fuzzy. The beefy buckle is not well deburred, and taking a little sandpaper to the corner the webbing runs over when you do get around to your first webbing replacement. The length is marginally short, I am only 5'9" and when I am tippy toed out I use EVERY inch of it.

 

Fish: Same buckle as Yates, but the girth hitch loop is very long (12") which betending on how you use it can really limit your security when in you are in your second steps, forcing the us of a fifi at times.

 

Metolius: Much smaller webbing, and I hate them. Unlike the Fish and Yates you CANNOT release them under significant tension. During traversing moves you REALLY want to be able to clip the next piece, then lower out onto the next daisy from your last piece. Metolius doesn't work well here.

 

In my case I use homemade russian aiders, so I really don't use the daisy except at vertical or past, but I don't use a fifi at all.

[dan_forester]

So I borrowed Bill's yates adjustable daisies (thanks Bill!) & tried them out this weekend. The verdict: I like them better than my standard daisy + fifi setup and this will probably be the next piece of gear I get.

 

I didn't get into the top step but found that the adjustables made the second step a lot more comfortable (no worrying about shifting and having the fifi pop out). I think on really steep terrain these would make a big difference. Like Ivan said, though, you do have to extend the webbing fully after taking it off your last piece, which is an extra step, but I think with some practice I could manage to do this quickly & efficiently.

 

For jugging they work great. I'm kind of hapless and awkward when it comes to jugging and cleaning (just need a lot more practice), and the adjustables make getting the right extension really easy. It's especially nice to be able to quickly reduce or extend the length in the middle of a pitch (like if the steepness of the terrain changes), without having to fool around with carabiners.

 

Thanks to Moof too for all the aid tips and the patient belay yesterday (ps check your PMs re: your #3 camalot).

[billcoe]

Good to hear the full report!

 

rental fee ?.....