training when exhausted?

[Lisa_D]

Sleep is essential. One thing I tried last winter when I was over-scheduled and burnt out was following a strict sleep/wake schedule. I made a resolution to be in bed by 10:30 and up at 6:30. Not easy (especially as a college student living in a house with a bunch of people), but paid off immensely. I kept it up for the entire winter quarter, and I think it allowed me to keep a healthy balance and not get burned out.

[layton]

I think the AM approach and the tip that you gotta 1st get used to your new schedule are right on. You can't do it all! I can skip the leg workouts, get runs in on non climbing weekends, and do some major muscle groups before work. Groovy, thanks all!

[Gary_Yngve]

10 handstand pushups

 

Can you do 10 consecutive?

 

If so I can't begin to tell you how jealous I am...

 

balanced against a wall, or free?

 

 

[i_like_sun]

Whenever I do these I raise the blood pressure so high in my skull that I begin to fear aneurysm and possible death.

[i_like_sun]

I think the AM approach and the tip that you gotta 1st get used to your new schedule are right on. You can't do it all! I can skip the leg workouts, get runs in on non climbing weekends, and do some major muscle groups before work. Groovy, thanks all!

 

 

Dude, you're DIALED.

[marylou]

Unfortunately this is part of life. Once your residency is over you can make choices about whether your career and your exercise can co-exist, and how much time gets devoted to what thing.

 

What if we all took on the European way of getting work done? In Italy, people who work more than 40 hours/week are called IDIOTS! I think there is something deeply wrong with our culture - we embrace people who ignore health in their attempt to make another dime. I'm not calling anyone an idiot, just that I think we should all change.

 

It totally sucks. If it's a temporary thing, like Mike's residency or the rather extreme hours I work sometimes, it's really a temporary problem. The ones I really worry about are people who let that be the normal state of their work lives.

[i_like_sun]

Uhm, like my dad!

[chelle]

Mike - about the hunger...Are you eating enough protein or mostly carbs? Try upping the protein and see if it helps you not get hungry as quickly. I can survive my 12 hour shifts without feeling hungry all morning & afternoon, only if I eat a good breakfast with a good dose of protein (like cottage cheese, an egg, or yogurt). And another good dose of protein at lunch. Just eating cereal for breakfast will not sustain you until lunch, you'll end up snacking more and you'll likely start to gain weight that may make you feel worse.

 

Also, the advice someone else gave to take up another activity that helps balance fitness with mental calm (aikido or yoga) may help you relax and get better rest when you are asleep.

[ivan]

if'n mike was to take up yoga, a rift in the time-space continium might develop as the old mike attempted to leap the inter-temporal chasm and beat the new-mike to a pulp w/ a wiffle-ball bat

 

maybe you should just sit out on your sweet balcony and paint water-colors of sea-gulls'n'stuff, dude!

[jon]

Mike, here are a couple things worth trying.

 

-Big breakfast. You need to replenish your stores lost during the evening. Go light on lunch if you aren't hungry and worried about your figure.

 

-On work days avoid simple sugars like the plague ie no soda, no cookies, white breads. Some people, like myself, can have wild reactions to sugar which will put you in a sleepy hypoglycemic state at the end of the work day. I used to fall asleep after work all the time until I made this change.

 

-Don't go to bed hungry. You think you're hungry then, your body will wake up on empty. You recover most when you are sleeping, no fuel for recovery... no recovery, your body will just cannibalize itself.

 

-Take your vitamins everyday. The easiest most overlooked extra 5+% ever.

 

-When it is nice out get at least 15 minutes of sun exposure, even in the winter when it is cold out. Helps keep your internal clock in tune and gets you your Vitamin D.

 

-While this may sounds pretty self explanatory, most people don't get this.... Never work out harder then your ability to recover from it. Never let yourself get into a training/recover deficit.

 

-To build on the above statement. As your fitness increases your ability to blow the crap out of yourself increases. Just because your body is making you believe you can do those extra few set or miles, doesn't mean you should. See above.

 

-I don't necessarily agree with the AM workouts. Your job requires interacting with people. If you are a wreck at the end of the work day you risk losing clients, or worse hurting someone.

 

Hope this helps.

[sk]

if'n mike was to take up yoga, a rift in the time-space continium might develop as the old mike attempted to leap the inter-temporal chasm and beat the new-mike to a pulp w/ a wiffle-ball bat

 

maybe you should just sit out on your sweet balcony and paint water-colors of sea-gulls'n'stuff, dude!

 

Ivan dear i think you may misunderstand the strength and balance ti requires to hold yoga poses

[layton]

Thanks Jon,

 

I think I'll be okay with the AM workouts. I find that I'm way less tired if I'm active. It's the activation energy that's the hardest part...since even after work and I'm blown, if I do force myself to go to the gym or run - I feel awesome and I wake up less tired. I think it's mostly mental, emotional, and food related. I should get a food allergy test and a glucose tolerance test, and also be stricter on my sleeping schedule.

 

I'm sure this thread strikes a chord with a lot of us on here who are stuck working way too much.

[i_like_sun]

 

-To build on the above statement. As your fitness increases your ability to blow the crap out of yourself increases. Just because your body is making you believe you can do those extra few set or miles, doesn't mean you should. See above.

 

 

 

 

This is one of the hardest things to overcome.

[billcoe]

Sorry I didn't have any advice for ya Mike: I was gonna say "welcome to my world" ie: for a while it was 2 full time jobs, full time father, family, wife, house, pets and other major commitments: the whole Hindenburg disaster.

 

Climbing? What the F*ck was that but an old tainted bitter memory of momentary joy and happiness lost in the distant haze of time. F*ck I'm about to cry here just thinking of it. I gave the best years of my life to that woman and those kids....opps, did I just say that out loud?

 

But that sounded too smarmy and I didn't want to be beat down with a wiffle bat.

 

-anyway-

 

Sounds like a nutritional issue to me. Good luck.

 

Added: I took 2 years off to hang with my kids when they were little pups, did some rental house stuff and laid low till my wife kicked my ass the hell down the path to unhappiness again. Good times, my kids and I bonded so tight then that my son's now 17 and its still carried over to this day - unbelievably strong.

Edited August 29, 2007 by billcoe

[sk]

I should get a food allergy test and a glucose tolerance test, and also be stricter on my sleeping schedule.

 

I need to do that too

[lizard_brain]

 

-To build on the above statement. As your fitness increases your ability to blow the crap out of yourself increases. Just because your body is making you believe you can do those extra few set or miles, doesn't mean you should. See above.

 

 

 

 

This is one of the hardest things to overcome.

 

One of the hardest things for YOU to overcome. For me it was fairly easy, once I caught on to the concequences - for me anyway. For endurance training, one of my rules of thumb is don't work out hard for more than 3 days in a row - 2 is better. 3 is okay if they aren't all hard. I found that 4-5 hard days in a row nearly always results in colds or sinus infections and so on for me, and I finally learned to rest after 2 hard days, or 3 days in general, and always take the day after a long run off. Otherwise I wind up sick every 6 or 8 weeks. It's easy for me to work out to the point that my immune system is compromised. My body's way of telling me to slow down. It's okay to work out hard, just don't do it more than 3 days in a row.

[i_like_sun]

Sounds like you have a good mechanism that tells you when you are overtraining - you get sick. The reason this is a difficult boundary for me to recognize is that I first of all RARELY get sick (once per year, if that) and second of all, exercise keeps energizing and making me feel great right up to the point of crashing. I'm talking minutes of time.

 

Lately, in my efforts to beat this I'm working one exercise TYPE every other day. I'll do strength and core stuff one day, then cardiovascular exercise the next, and then two days per week I'll do nothing but standing and walking. I'm also eating every two hours - trying to get my anabolic hormones as high as possible. So far all this is working great - about 90% of the time. I still seem to have mild crashes on occasion but I'm super stoked that they are far less frequent and severe to just a few months ago. I know they are on their way out.

 

Thats just me and mine however. I'm glad that you have everything figured out. It must be nice.

[lizard_brain]

Yeah, it's good to know. Besides, I pretty much have the ability to push myself until I collapse, and have pushed myself to the brink a number of times, and then rested an extra day because of that. (This is during endurance training.) Another more recent rule is 'Don't take more than 2 days off at a time.' - unless something is wrong - illness, injury, etc.

 

So it may have something to do with the different types of exercise, too. For me it's mainly endurance and speed. Sounds like it's been more strength & such for you. I just run & climb. I may spend some time this winter doing some strength work preparing for next season - I did more climbing than usual this year, and I wished I had hed more upper body strength. Not gonna mess with it until after I finish my next marathon, though...

 

[i_like_sun]

Yeah, it sounds like we are different athletes. In the past I've prided myself with having fantastic strength, and have been able to carry the heaviest pack and set the fastest pace, and go the longest (testosterone poisoning). I try not to do too much super long endurance when I'm "training", because I seem to lose weight really, really fast - I save the super long hauls for climbing trips. I fear that if I don't do this I turn into a scrawny stick with zero body fat, no matter how much I seem to eat (this is what happened to me last summer, and I completely destroyed my health).

 

I do realize that this is an on going, and always changing game however. So I am always open to new ideas and ways to change the workout - its a must.

 

I like your words about never going two days without a workout, and scheduling in rest days. Intuitively I seem to do this, but getting more organized and focused would probably do me a lot of good. I say this because I've gotten to a point in my fitness where I too can work my body to the point of complete collapse, yet still feel like I can keep going! I guess this can be a good thing, but at the same time my exhaustion signals are so weak......I don't feel tired until I crash completely. hence the overtraining thread.

 

Anyway, yeah. These discussions are good. Have a nice day.

 

 

[lizard_brain]

Yeah, I get 'tired', and I know most people would give up at that point, but it's easy to keep going just a little further, and just a little further, just a few more steps, just a little more... to the point where I'm stumbling and about to crash. I certainly get tired, but I push through it, but that's part of the long-run training - not something I do every day, but weekly. Only if and when I have those last couple of miles during a long run - or my long run is extended because the race in nearer. Lately I've been working on speed, so I've been crashing sooner on my long runs because I've been doing them faster than before - actually, where I didn't used to crash at all. But I'm doing them much faster and much more comfortably, but what's odd is when the crash comes, it comes on fairly quickly. So for example, I may set out to do 14 miles at 10 - 10.5 minutes per mile (I used to do 12.5!) and wind up spent after 11 miles. I can do it - I just have to build up more slowly, and now that I'm not climbing 2 days a week it's a WHOLE lot easier to build up faster!

[cj001f]

different athletes and entirely different issues. with a heavy schedule it can be weeks before you are back on track

[lizard_brain]

Yeah, but that's what I was saying earlier. He chose a lifestyle that required all his time plus some. I have an average job, but I'm out of there at 4:00 every day, training by 5:00. You can't have everything.

[cj001f]

yes, well, this was a thread about training when exhausted. As your work schedule increases the ability to blow yourself out, and the difficulty in recovering, increases. Since you don't have a heavy work schedule I'm not sure what you were attempting to contribute by contradicting jon/i like sun.

 

I always found the worst part about "normal" jobs was the strong desire to gouge your eyes out after spending 8 stultifying hours which counteracted any desire to train.

[i_like_sun]

I think that monitoring training intensity and nutritional intake when exhausted is a must. You see, when I've been running consistently, I NEVER slow my pace slower than 8.5 min./mile. I will shorten my run in order to achieve higher intensities. This has caused me problems in the past because as my fitness and endurance level increased, I've trained far beyond my body's immediate ability to repair. Also, because I could train so hard and long without consciously feeling "wiped out", I couldn't get myself to eat nearly the calories that I was burning. I'm not interested in marathons, but I think all athletes can benefit from learning how to parallel physical stress with the times that their bodies are able to recover.

 

One other thing, the actual feeling of "crashing" is a far cry from what it feels like to be simply "uber tired from a long run." The difference is hormonal - true crashing, or true overtraining, means that cortisol and testoserone completely bottom out, and it can take weeks to months for those to come back up. Without these hormones in balance, and high enough, our ability to withstand any stress is F***ED. Feeling uber wiped is different - usually cortisol stays high and testosterone drops until the athlete receives nutrition. More simply, this is a SHORT TERM testosterone dip. When true overtraing happens, appetite diminishes as the body slows metabolism in order to preserve energy, and this only leads to a cascade of tissue catabolism. Forcing one's self to stuff down more food when in this state doesn't work because the digestive track has slowed so much that constipation sets in - it's impossible to stomach the food. So basically the only thing we can do is to NOT LET IT HAPPEN in the first place.

 

I hope that rant does some good.

[lizard_brain]

I hope that rant does some good.

 

It does actually - thanks!

 

...but I think all athletes can benefit from learning how to parallel physical stress with the times that their bodies are able to recover.

 

Elaborate? Explain?