Supercams?

[high_on_rock]

I saw These at the Red Rocks Vue last spring and they made a lot of logical sense to me. Has anyone ever had any real experience with them yet?

 

[billcoe]

I do they are freakin awesome

[Maxtrax]

Can you expand on that? I haven't had a chance to play with them except in shops but looking just at specs for range/weight it seems that they don't offer much that I can't get from C4s or my link cams.

[JosephH]

Well, it's a matter of preference I suppose. IMO C4's are basically junk north of their now beautiful thumb loop and the Link Cam's are about as fragile a thing as I've ever seen. But then I've never liked a single generation of the Camalots from the first one to the C4s. In general - as far as design, engineering, and all-round bombproof goes - Super Cams are basically art and damn hard to beat. And when it comes to any potential for taking serious dives they get my vote every time compared to the other two. That, and they're made by climbers here in the NW and US. But hey, that's just me and my prejudices.

 

My new medium Super Cam is choice. Now they just need to make the large ones and two sizes above that.

[high_on_rock]

Having recommendations from both Bill and Joeseph seems pretty darn credible. As I said, looking at them they look like da bomb!

 

I am sold.

[billcoe]

Yeah, this is the full meal deal: this is a copy of a RC.com post. I will add, that the longer I climb on it, the more I like the Supercam. Metolius may be the best equipment mfg out there. It is not a co-incidence that you sometimes see some hot Black Diamond sponsored climber trying some unclimbed testpiece carrying their cams. On another current thread, someone just posted some issue with the new BD C3's, and it was pointed out that you NEVER get any issues with the Metolius 3 cams. Metolius shit is just that damn good. Since I wrote this, they have come out with the medium Metolius Supercam, and its a great size range and addition to the small. I think if you are gonna be diving on it: you get Metolius to be sure. Look at the new Safe tech Harness to see this kind of thinking for instance.

 

-updated copy follows-

 

Being the gear whore that I am, I found myself at the base of El Cap with an El Cap sized rack of cams but with stones the size of peanuts, and only a week long trip, so not actually up the stone.

 

At the base, however, while waiting for my partners to aid a crack, I spent some time in between pleasuring myself, looking for dropped gear, and chasing Alligator Lizards by looking at the strengths and weakness's of these hot new supercams in various placements and configurations.

 

Trango Maxcams

Omega Pacifics Link Cams

Metolius Supercam

Black Diamond Camalots

 

 

Trango Maxcams

 

The Trango Maxcams bite into a flaring bombay placement better than any other cam noted on my list. Hands down. If you want to put them up against Standard Metolius cams, I would expect you to say that the Metolius bite better. The Metolius have that rep. But, I didn't compare the 2 as I only own the regular Metolius in the smaller sizes and did not, compare them.

 

Although the Maxcams work in a flaring crack stick better than any other extended range cam, you do not want this cam placed at the upper ends of the size range. Period. The most amazing thing happens if you should choose to ignore my advice and do this anyway. The recommendation is then therefore twofold.

 

Option A) Slap a long, floppy runner on the placement and say a prayer it doesn't move.

 

-and/or-

 

Option B) Wear some Depends. Maybe double bag it with em even.

 

A slight wiggle and the cam placement will shift and likely invert. Should you choose to forgo option "A": then sure as shit Option "B" will be critical, so when you look down and see that key placment fall out of the crack you are going to have sh*t running down yer leg as sure as the donkeys in Tijuana will be doing stage shows for Navy dudes. Be aware that the super range which Trango shows on paper is reduced significantly in the real world due to this inversion potential. Crank them down when you stuff them in and you'll be fine.

 

Given this critical information, you would think that I would run, not walk, away from using these cams. Not true. Although you can easily get these things to fall out of a practice placement standing on the ground and messing around, I have never had one happen to me in the real world, and I've been an early adopter and owner of these puppies. I've stuffed them lots of times into lots of places in lots of areas. As long as you know this potential issue, you can easily avoid the issue so pay the f* attention and re-read that little part up there again cause it's mission critical.

 

The other huge advantage which Trango Cams have over all of the others noted relates to the offest lobe design as well. Because the stem if offset, ie, one side of cams is larger than the other, if you find huecos or horizontal cracks, they place significantly better with the stem in the up position than any cam in the world. I found that in Red Rocks and Joshua Tree, you find these kinds of placements there much more often than say…Smith Rocks or Yosemite. Your results will vary depending on your area. I find that if there is a yellow Maxcam and a Yellow Camalot on the rack, the Maxcam gets used first. Some others I have climbed with have noted this very fact as well. Can't say why that is. Climbing magazine gave this cam a "best of breed" or "cam I'd most like to stroke" award. Something along those lines. Given how much money Black Diamond must spend on advertising, that is high praise indeed.

 

Omega Pacific Link Cams

 

I bought 2 each of the #2 and a #1. The range is so close that you have to wonder why they bothered making the #1 at all. These things have the largest effective range of any other cam out there. It is so large of a range that it is difficult to condition your mind to utilize it. You just don't easily grab a cam the size of the #2 Camalot when your fingers are stuffed into a small-yellow, grey or Red Alien sized crack. Especially if you are gripped and greasing off. Yet if you do, this cam will stick in there like an old whore using Polygrip instead of Astroglide. Like the Polygrip it's truly amazing, stunning and shocking…in a good way I mean. They are truly a fantastic piece of equipment and every climber should have at least one. One slight downside is that they are heavier than other cams (say 7.3 oz vs B.D. 5.7oz) . In your hand they do not feel heavier, and for cragging, it would be quite a relief if when finishing a pitch and having only 1 cam left for the belay, this was the cam you had. Pretty much assured it will fit.

 

There are some negatives with this cam other than being heavier. It's been raised online but not seen it yet: that the complexity of the mechanicals alone could be a potential cause of failures. There had been a single published instance of the rivets not being properly stamped on a single cam, which Omega Pacific to their credit jumped all over to make sure that their stuff was good. An identical thing had happened to the Trango when they first came out as well and it was handled with equal aplomb and speed. A non-event for both companies as they handled it so well in both instances.

 

In the flaring bombay crack, the Link Cams did not perform as good as any of the other cams noted. That is not to say they did poorly, because that would be inaccurate. OP, in the marketing literature, says: "The unique range eliminates the need for specialized, “offset cams” for flared-crack protection", and also "With a constant cam angle of 13.5°, we achieve our range without sacrificing holding power..". I do not agree with the first part of that sentence as currently, offset cams tend to be very small, both the recently introduced offset 3 cam units from Metolius, which rule huge in the pinscars at Yos, or Alien offsets (if you don't know that strange story just search "Alien Cams and failures" to get plenty of reading material to catch up.)

 

My biggest complaint of these came about during my road trip and I have not seen this issue raised elsewhere. Although all cam mfgs recommend periodically washing and re-lubricating their products (Blah blah blah, yada yada, sure thing bra, I'll get right on that…..NOT). With the Link cams, it becomes mandatory. That slick-feeling perfect mechanical feel of a brand new Link Cam seems like it to turns to sh*t about as fast as a Hummer goes from 0 to 60: that is in about 5 minutes and very steadily. If any of you lazy bastards think you can avoid this washing and lubricating chore, well, let me know how you figured out how to avoid it so I can do the same. I have some original solid stem Friends from the 70's which I may have washed and lubed twice, maybe. Plan on having a maintenance schedule with these things and it might need to be more frequent in sandstone. If you are incapable, incompetant, lazy or just don't want to do this chore I would avoid this fine product. No joke. Omega Pacific has taken an additional step of spending some thought re-designing the trigger wire mechanism. Their intelligent well-thought out solution is strong, innovative, secure and easy to replace. A quick look at this alone and you will see that the quality, manufacturing complexity, and attention to detail they have put in this cam should, could, and does merit a higher price than any of the other cams noted.

 

 

Metolius Supercam

 

They came out of the blocks fast with what they call a small sized version: and then stalled out. They have 1 cam, and a great effort at that, however, the medium and large sizes must be on vacation. Metolius has a reputation for high quality fit and finish. This cam does not disappoint in that department, but it lacks any single striking feature where a bro's eyes will start bulging out and he starts yelling "I gotta get me dat!". It is both innovative and solid. But these guys need to come out with the big brother and big sister.

 

Personally, I do not like the U-stem as much as the thumb trigger mechanism both Trango and BD employ. This is truly a personal choice, as I know people who feel the opposite it true for them. I do find it highly interesting that on the rock plugging one in I never noticed this effect, only on the ground in the store does it make a snit worth of difference. I think I shall call that the "Pucker factor". Once you're Puckered, that feature is totally un-noticeable. It does have less range than the Link Cam yet is close to the same weight as the heaviest in the group. Although a near horse race for 2nd best grip in the granite flaring crack contest, the BD edges it out by a nose for 2nd. Metolius is known for making perfect product. If you have to fall on any of these cams, despite the fact that BD finally appears to have gotten it right, this would be my first choice due to reputation.

 

Black Diamond Camalots

 

Not much to add to what is already known. These are the granddaddy and gold standard in extended range cams. With good reason they are widely seen in any climbing area you may go to. Their 3rd gen Camalot has all the good and none of the bad and is lighter and easier to plug than any previous generation Camalot. The only real argument you may hear is that a rack of regular Metolius cams is lighter. True. And the Metolius regular 4 cam units stick better as well. True. Which may be the reason you sometimes even often see Metolius cams on sponsored Black Diamond climbers racks when the climbing gets serious and difficult. But I am talking about the extended range cams only here, and if you do not have any cams yet or you want to upgrade from the old crap you have, these are the ones to buy. Period. I retired all of my old B.D. Camalots in favor of the new ones. They are that good. Beginners or cube-farming chuffers who only get out on an occasional weekend: and thus often grab the wrong sized cam while pumped to the point of peeing their pants (ie, me - and people like me), love the extended range, ease of placement and strength of these. Buy a rack of these and stop worrying about all the rest of the crap. Most likely your climbing partner will have these as well, and it's nice to have consistency. These have a slight, tiny lead on the Metolius in the flaring/bomb bay cracks. Hardly enough to notice, but it is a distinct second place based on how the Trango sticks. Downside: none. Remember, gear whores aren't worried about cost, and all of these extended range cams will cost you a left nut to own. Unless you're a chick, in which case just grab your boyfriends if you need one.

 

Regards all

 

Bill (BTW, please note the following)

 

 

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Malcom Daley popped on and reminded me one big thing I forgot was that a big selling feature of the Maxcams was the doubled sling.

[kevbone]

Having recommendations from both Bill and Joeseph seems pretty darn credible.

 

How do you figure?

[RuMR]

metolius stuff is basically diesel work trucks...they don't break, are bomber when used properly and fit pretty damn well in a variety of places...sure, an alien will fit better in some flares/scars, etc. but all in all, i will carry metolius over everything else first in the small sizes...

 

i have cams that i've wailed on with big falls and short hard falls that have been on my rack since the late 80's/early 90's (back when the cams were smooth faced) and all i've done is wash 'em once a decade and gotten new slings on them...

 

they are BOMBER...

[billcoe]

Having recommendations from both Bill and Joeseph seems pretty darn credible.

 

How do you figure?

 

What do you mean Kev?

[powderhound]

Having recommendations from both Bill and Joeseph seems pretty darn credible.

 

How do you figure?

 

Because bill was climbing when there were no cams, and as such has been using them since they came into existence. Therefore, most likely has a bit more cam placing experience then the rest of us. The more you do something the better you get at it, and the better you become at judging quality when you see it.

[selkirk]

Well, it's a matter of preference I suppose. IMO C4's are basically junk north of their now beautiful thumb loop and the Link Cam's are about as fragile a thing as I've ever seen. But then I've never liked a single generation of the Camalots from the first one to the C4s. In general - as far as design, engineering, and all-round bombproof goes - Super Cams are basically art and damn hard to beat. And when it comes to any potential for taking serious dives they get my vote every time compared to the other two. That, and they're made by climbers here in the NW and US. But hey, that's just me and my prejudices.

 

My new medium Super Cam is choice. Now they just need to make the large ones and two sizes above that.

 

So why the hate for BD?

 

(Personally own primarily DMM in mid sizes, Metolius in Small, WC in very small, and 1 Link Cam which I've been quite happy with, and 1 old #4 BD Camalot cause it was used cheap and big )

[JosephH]

I've just never liked the specs, axles, manufacturing execution, or feel of the business end of the Camalots of any generation. I find them inelegant, sloppy, and not as burly as I prefer. I use a 4.5 on the big end and will continue to while pestering Metolius to work on some Extra-large Super Cams.

[billcoe]

Because bill was climbing when there were no cams, and as such has been using them since they came into existence. Therefore, most likely has a bit more cam placing experience then the rest of us. The more you do something the better you get at it, and the better you become at judging quality when you see it.

 

Thanks for the support 'Hound, it also sounds better than: "cause Bill's a f*en Gearwhore who ran out and bought all that crap 15 min after it came out and even when he's on the ground scratching his ass lookin stupid is still stuffing it into various places to see WTF is up:-)"

 

The same thing (what you said) can be said of JH as well.

[high_on_rock]

I agree Bill, hence, my decision was made as soon as the two of you posted.

[tradclimbguy]

Interesting set of views so far. Having recently started replacing some of my cams I find myself actually getting further away from Metolius. I used to be die hard for the TCU's but since getting into Aliens I can't seem to go back.

 

I had to officially retire my blue and yellow TCU's this year too as they are now too thrashed and neither cam anymore. My purple should also probably be let go and my orange isn't very straight

 

I even used to have a full rack of larger power cams but have fallen in line with BD's as being the ONLY large cams on my rack. I'm not sure what you guys mean by the C4's being crappy. I use mine to death and they seem to hold up really well. I did get a full set of the new Wild Country Zeroes and absolutely love them but they still come in second to the aliens. They are definitely turning into my go to guys though. They can be a bit finicky to get in the crack but they stick to just about anything and are very confidence inspiring.

 

If it weren't for my now double rack of aliens up to red and then doubles of .75 through #4 BD I'd probably get more Metolius but I think I've now got my near perfect rack. The Wild countries make triples or sometimes go on as doubles if I'm looking for something different but more or less I always have one full set of aliens glued to my side.