Escaping the Mother-in-Law and sleeping Bag Ratings

[Terminal_Gravity]

First, the "Escaping the Mother-in-law" TR

Friday evening. I get home from work at 6:30 after a long week. We brewed 9 times and on top of that I had more than the usual amount of arduous paper work to deal with... my administrative assistant (secretary in an earlier era) is on vacation. The last thing I was looking forward to was that my "lovely wife" (Willstricklands words) had invited her mom and my hyperactive niece for a sleep over. I decided to "get out" in more ways than one. I threw 2 ropes, a shovel, a picket, a dead man, slings, harness, 'biners, my Marmot Lithuim Bag, stove & pan, sleeping pad, snow shoes, head light, can of Copenhagen, GU, Ramen, Halva, water bottle, cloths, beef stick etc. etc. etc. ad nausium into my pack and headed out; hoping to rope solo some crazy little coliour thang with a cornice at dawn. I drove up on a local logging road until I got stuck, lowered the tire pressure, locked the hubs and put it 4WD low and drove another 1/2 mile until I got stuck again. It was then 8:15 and almost full dark. I post holed up through warm wet snow in the dark for a while, sweating in shorts and a tee-shirt until I gave up and put my snow shoes on. Then I post holed up about a thousand feet through dense trees and got hopelessly disoriented on the moonless night. My altimeter said I had only made 1500 out of the 3000 feet that I wanted. My spirit was broken. The stars had turned to clouds and a warm wind had picked up. I decided that I had better dig a snow cave. At 10:30 I put on my extra cloths and fired up the stove, melted snow and made ramen. One bite left me wanting, I dumped the rest into the melting snow and satisfied my gullet with a heaping plug of cope'. After squirming into my bag ( 0 degree, Marmot lithium 800 FP down, remember) wearing socks, shorts, Patigonia capiline tee-shirt, Patagonia R-1 hooded thing and a Patigonia proto-type puff ball vest (yes Patagonia gives me deals) I mummyed up and still spent a chilly night in the cave. At 4:30am I awoke with optimism that it had gotten cold during the night and my target was in shape only to find that it was 42 degrees and raining outside the cave. No climbing today! I packed up and made it home by 6:30 for my first margerita of the day.

Thats the TR; but the real question is why was I not toasty warm all night long? I had a sleeping pad. Yes, in the cave, sheltered from the rain, but surrounded by snow, it might have been 32 degrees even though it was warmer out side, but certainly no colder. I was wearing what seemed like plenty of cloths inside the zero degree bag and yet I was a bit chilly. What's up with that? The bag did absorb some moisture from my wet clothes and the dripping cave during the night...but still, what gives? How do Manufactures really rate bags? Maybe I'm just a pontificating whimpy piece of shit climber. Maybe not. I have other bags of various ratings but I really like a lot of things about the Marmot. Compared to the others the ratings, it seem appropriate but clearly not accurate. After a night of heavy drinking at an outdoor party last December, I crashed in the snow in my Mountain Hardwear King Tut ( neg. 35 degree dryloft ) it was -12 degrees in the morning and I was fuckin' cold in the middle of the night. At the time, I blamed it on the fact that I was drunk and slept nekked...but I wonder, is it the ratings?

Sorry about all the ramblings, but what are your experiences with bag ratings. Or, does anybody really know the criteria for manufactures giving a bag a rating? Maybe I just have a very low sleeping metabolism...that might explain the extra 20 pounds of insulation I carry around my gut.

[salbrecher]

I find if I have a big meal before I go to bed it keeps me warmer than if not. Drinking(alcohol) Before bed also probably lowered your body temp because it brings your blood closer to your skin(hence the red face after drinking) increasing heat loss. Wet cloths I find make me the coldest at night and if they are wet I sleep naked.

[Uncle_Tricky]

Thanks for sharing--brings back memories of bad trips past. In fact I was just recently recounting memories of bad trips with a friend of mine from high school.

Like the time we got caught in a summer lighting\hail\rain storm on S. Arapahoe Peak (CO). Classically unprepared, totally freezing, lighting striking all around, we ran a couple thousand feet down a snowfield to lower ground. It was only then that my friend discovered that somewhere along the way, he'd ran out of his shoe--and hadn't even noticed cause his feet were so cold! (It was a long, slow walk out). Or the time we went backpacking and brought all canned food but no can opener or pocket knife. Or the time we tried to paddle a canoe through a culvert on a flooding creek and nearly got stuck, or the time we were in a suvivalist phase and tried to hunt and gather all our food for a week and ended up skinning mice and roasting slugs on a skewer....ahhh the memories!

As far as sleeping bags go, in my experience, the warmest way to sleep is nekkid with hat and socks, or with just a thin layer of long underwear at most. Anything more than that (fleece or whatever) seems to dilute your body heat and render the bag less effective and/or retard blood circulation.

Of course, DRY is the key. In a snow cave, the temperature often stays a little above freezing, which can result in high relative humidity. Even if you have dry clothes, water vapor from the snow and your breath will pass right through your bag and clothes, contributing to a clammy, damp feeling. I've noticed that its easier to be warm at 20 degrees where the air is dry, than at 33 degrees where the air has a lot of moisture in it. Kind of the inverse of the rule about heat and humidity.

[ 04-13-2002: Message edited by: Uncle Tricky ]

[offwidthclimber]

quote:

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Originally posted by Terminal Gravity:

First, the "Escaping the Mother-in-law" TR

 

No climbing today! I packed up and made it home by 6:30 for my first margerita of the day.

 

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dude, if you can't climb, there's no better way to spend a shitty day than drinkin'. nice work!

 

peace out.

[Dwayner]

Dude: You'd be better off if you'd been thinkin' of "escaping the sleeping bag and mother-in-law" ratings. Here's the answer to your quandry: you should have brought that mother-in-law with you to keep you warm in that crappy sleeping bag. Hotcha! And what are you doing buying a sleeping bag called "King Tut"? That guy's been dead for over 3,000 years! (He probably roasted to death in a sleeping bag called "Bill Clinton").

aloha,

- Dwayner

[Matt_Anderson]

Don't know for sure, I always thought that bag ratings assumed you wearing a fair amount of insulation, at least expidition weight, plus sock and hats.

 

Matt

[fleblebleb]

Were all those Patagonia thingies the same stuff you were wearing before you went to sleep? Clothing in order of decreasing warmth: (1) dry underwear from your pack, (2) nothing, (3) whatever sweaty, wet stuff you were wearing while you dug and ate. Seems to me you can pretty reliably blame your chills on moisture. My 2 cents/stebbi

[jhamaker]

>>>in sober retrospect, I'm sure that it was my soaking cloths that were the culprit.<<<

 

I think you've got it.

Remember, a sleeping bag is just a big therm-mass.

It is very good at keeping a warm-mass warm, and a cold-mass cold.

[Figger_Eight]

Even the least bit of moisture in your clothes will suck the heat right out of your body. One of the biggest culprits is wet underwear which'll make your ass get all cold. I stick an extra pair of boxers and socks in my sleeping bag before I pack it which I use just for sleeping in. I haven't been cold since.

[Terminal_Gravity]

in sober retrospect, I'm sure that it was my soaking cloths that were the culprit.

 

Evaporative cooling and all that.

 

I'd rather freeze up than even think about cuddeling with the Mother-in-Law

[JasonG]

Also when you are sleeping on snow an important thing (as important as how warm your bag is) is how good of insulation you have below you. Two pads (closed cell and a thermarest, or two closed cell) are a must for wintertime camping IMHO. Even if you have a minus -20 bag with a thin or crappy pad, you'll still probably be cold. But I always reserve the right to be wrong . . .

[rayborbon]

I sleep on ropes, packs and my pack foam pad. Rarely do I take a sleeping pad in the backcountry any more. Too bulky and add much weight hehehe.

[Dru]

I though you killed a bunch of snafflehounds, ate em for dinner, and slept all night in a bedroll you made from their pelts?

[rayborbon]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

I though you killed a bunch of snafflehounds, ate em for dinner, and slept all night in a bedroll you made from their pelts?

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Cavewoman sleeps on the snafflehound pelts.