Snowshoe recommendations?

[payaso]

I'm looking to buy some snowshoes and noticed REI has the MSR Denali's for $99. I've tried these, Redfeather, and Atlas before. The price on these are definitely more attractive than $250 or so for some of the others. Mostly I want them for approaches, day scrambles/hikes etc. I see that they sell tails for them as well. If anyone has good or bad tales to tell regarding these I would love some advice, thanks

[JRCO]

I have the atlas snow shoes, they work great. My partner uses the MSR and they seem to be a little bit more sturdy. I would try renting them both and see what you like best.

[payaso]

I've actually tried both and actually prefer the simplicity of the MSR design. My concern is 1. Quality (you get what you pay for here?), and 2. Has anyone used the tails, and if so have you had any difficulties with them? I want to buy something soon because rentals cost $18 after tax!! Ouch!

[JRCO]

The tails work great and allow you some flexability in your snow shoe use. Atlas does not have this option

[Marcus_Engley]

quote:

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Originally posted by payaso:

I've actually tried both and actually prefer the simplicity of the MSR design. My concern is 1. Quality (you get what you pay for here?), and 2. Has anyone used the tails, and if so have you had any difficulties with them? I want to buy something soon because rentals cost $18 after tax!! Ouch!

---

Go for the MSRs. That's a great price, and it's a good snowshoe. The tails work as easily as they're advertised to, and they add a lot of float. My only gripe about the whole rig is that the straps tend to slowly migrate out of the instep buckle, and I lost a strap on my first day out with them. With a little effort you can double them back through (don't know why they don't do that as standard), and alleviate that problem...

m

[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: Marcus Engley ]

[Dru]

With the tails, you can shrink the shoe down for putting in your pack for those routes where you climb up a face and then plod off down the other side of the mountain, and still have some flotation in soft conditions.

There is currently a recall out on MSR Denali Ascents and regular Denalis made from Sept-Nov 2001 due to some breakage problems so check the date stamp when you buy 'em.

I found i was going faster on my Denalis than GR was on his tele skis this weekend approaching Nepopekum...but Serl forgot his skins and post holed and beat us both back to the car!

[David_Parker]

[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: David Parker ]

[David_Parker]

There are a few things I don't like about the If you want something a little more sporty, MEC is selling 120cm twin tip mini skis for $99CDN [/QB]

How would these skis work with silveretta bindings and either plastic or leather ice climbing boots?

For example, I have done the approach to Chair Peak 2twice, once with snoeshoes and once with tele skis. I much prefered coming out on skis but I don't like having to carry and switch boots.

And will someone please post how to do these responces where the original quote is bold. Also, how do you add a photo to a post. I'm not a complete idiot on the computer but someone start a thread with some basic instructions on how to use this web site for us imbiciles!

[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: David Parker ]

[vegetablebelay]

quote:

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Originally posted by David Parker:

And will someone please post how to do these responces where the original quote is bold. Also, how do you add a photo to a post. [ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: David Parker ]

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To post a reply that includes someone else's quote you hit the " " at the top of that person's post. You don't have to hit REPLY, just the quotation marks at the top of the post.

To attach a pic, do a left click on the pic you want to use and choose properties on the menu. Copy the url of the pic and paste it on your reply. Put behind it with no spaces. That make sense?

[Dru]

Vege I hope you are collercting your cc.com guide's fee from Mr. Parker some of us worked hard to make sure these secret methods of inserting quotes and images remain secret....

[vegetablebelay]

quote:

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Originally posted by Dru:

Vege I hope you are collercting your cc.com guide's fee from Mr. Parker

some of us worked hard to make sure these secret methods of inserting

quotes

and

images

remain secret....

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Maybe I'll make an avatar named Robin Hood because of my generous donations to the peasants.

I think David Parker just left to go get a pic.

[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: vegetablebelay ]

[fern]

quote:

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Originally posted by David Parker:

There are a few things I don't like about the "If you want something a little more sporty, MEC is selling 120cm twin tip mini skis for $99CDN

"

How would these skis work with silveretta bindings and either plastic or leather ice climbing boots?

For example, I have done the approach to Chair Peak 2twice, once with snoeshoes and once with tele skis. I much prefered coming out on skis but I don't like having to carry and switch boots.<snip>

---

I am perplexed about what there is to like or not like about that quote, I mean it had a smily and everything ... (hmm hmm, the internal struggle, shall I be facetious or helpful ... la la la ) ... I think the preferred way of making them 'work' is to mount the bindings on the ski, insert the boot into the binding, and point 'em downhill. Whether or not this would 'work' for _you_ David is beyond my ken, as I know nothing of your abilities or joie-de-vivre. I don't even know if it would 'work' for me, but it looks like hella fun. I have seen it done by other people, they looked cheerful.

[David_Parker]

quote:

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Originally posted by fern:

I am perplexed about what there is to like or not like about that quote, I mean it had a smily and everything ... (hmm hmm, the internal struggle, shall I be facetious or helpful ... la la la

) ... I think the preferred way of making them 'work' is to mount the bindings on the ski, insert the boot into the binding, and point 'em downhill. Whether or not this would 'work' for _you_ David is beyond my ken, as I know nothing of your abilities or joie-de-vivre. I don't even know if it would 'work' for me, but it looks like hella fun. I have seen it done by other people, they looked cheerful.

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I have clicked on the " " and am just typing here below. If the above is not bold, then what the hell am I doing wrong.

Fern, I am an expert skier, both clownhill and tele. My Silverettas are on 195 Rossi Haute Routes and they are really heavy and basically suck. I've seen these guys on these short skis and they look fun! Lets assume I know how to mount bindings, put my boots on, attach skins, insert boots into bindings and get up and down in just about any snow conditions. What I was looking for was some feedback from someone who has tried this setup for mountaineering. I don't think $99 CP (canadian pesos) is a lot to invest unless someone convinces me this is a really stupid idea. Or maybe I should just get a split descision but, man, I don't know how to do the backside, fakie, 780 thing!

Veggiebelay, so if I have a photo saved on my computer in jpeg formatt, how do I get it into the post?

[ 02-14-2002: Message edited by: David Parker ]

[erik]

dave you pic needs to be on a server somewhere....i am sure there are some out there with extra spavce you can borrow....email caveman...he got da hook up

[fern]

My experience with Atlas snowshoes lead me to the conclusion that they are complete crap. Don't expect to get more than a dozen days of moderate-to-heavy use out of them before rivets start popping and straps break. This conclusion is based on the failure of several pairs, not just one.

There are a few things I don't like about the MSRs but they are very durable and pretty cheap. There are other rigid plastic brands out there too for similar $$ to the MSR. A friend has a pair that you can lock the heels down which is nice for steep deep snow, I think the brand is 'TSL' or somthing.

If you want something a little more sporty, MEC is selling 120cm twin tip mini skis for $99CDN

[Jman]

payaso-If you plan on 'shoeing in the Cascades, go with the MSR's. I've had friends try others, including Tubbs and Atlas, and they had problems ranging from fit, deck material cracking, straps breaking, and poor traction (going uphill). The MSR's rock! Especially the Denali Ascents - "televators" are a godsend on steep routes. As far as tails are concerned, I rarely use mine (+200 lbs + pack) - Washington "powder" seems to be pretty thick, besides a lot of routes already have some sort of beaten path from previous visitors. Just my $.02

BTW, if you decide to first rent a pair from REI, ask if they'll credit the rental toward your purchase. Not sure if they'll do this (some places would), but it's an idea.

[David Yount]

With www.google.com you should never pay full retail for any gear. There's simply no way you would have to pay over $199 for snowshoes, regardless of make and model. A quick search yielded:

1) MSR Denali Ascent 2002 (8x18") $143.95 3lb 12ozhttp://www.backcountrygear.com/manufacturers/MSR.cfmpay attention! it is very very rare these puppies sell for less than $159.95 and on the east coast commonly they sell for $199.95

2) MSR Denali Classic (8x18") $99.93 3lb 10ozhttp://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=8000&prrfnbr=10989874

with either MSR snowshoe extra tails arenecessary: MSR 8x8" Tails 30 $19.93 1lb 0ozhttp://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prmenbr=8000&prrfnbr=11009502&addon=676786-676789

3) Atlas 1025 (9x23") $164.93 4lb 8ozhttp://www.rei.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=11063498&prmenbr=8000&cgrfnbr=4501652

(the measurements are what I consider the actual flotation area used for realistic comparison; the manufacturers will quote a larger area but I find this false)

Any of the 3 set ups I feel is superior.

MSR MSR MSR MSRMSR has 2 choices, either is excellent for technical use. The 2 MSRs are identical except the higher model Ascent has 2 spikes and a heel lifter, more about these options later.

The Ascent and Classic are robust shoes and MSR is a joy to deal with for warranty/repairs. The crampons and lateral traction bars are hardened steel, many competitors use aluminum, which wear out quickly (with one notable exception, a single model of Tubbs uses titanium which makes the crampon far lighter). If you're a real person then you don't remove your shoes when faced with 10 feet of dirt/rock, you just cruise on over and aluminum looses its edge quickly. Dull crampons on hard spring snow or any kind of ice - that sucks. Those lateral traction bars are necessary for technical shoeing, they keep you from sliding sideways downslope when traversing across the fall line. These suckers give you 13" of useable steel, far greater than any other manufacturer. They also have 4 horizontal plastic ridges underfoot that help prevent you from sliding backwards when acending steeply and help prevent you from uncontrolled sliding forward when descending steeply. The bindings easily compress flat so a pair can be nested tightly together with low profile and lashed tightly to your pack with nothing sticking out; try that with Atlas or Tubbs .... never gonna happen. Hell, remove the MSR tails and you can store everything INSIDE your pack! (storing them out of sight is great theft prevention if you have to leave your pack unattended in a crowd of urban strangers.....)

Altas 12 bindinghttp://store4.yimg.com/I/skishop_1676_12779238

Atlas 10 bindinghttp://store4.yimg.com/I/skishop_1676_12347502

Tubbs Mtn bindinghttp://store4.yimg.com/I/skishop_1670_2743663

Tubbs Pinnacle binding !!!!http://store4.yimg.com/I/skishop_1669_537350

MSR bindinghttp://store4.yimg.com/I/skishop_1673_4755552

This factor alone strongly persuades me to buy MSR 'shoes; very handy to stuff inside pack after getting to rock climbing route and commencing to rock climb.

Comfort of the bindings should be top on everybody's list but in reality seldom do shoppers avail themselves opportunities to test and compare companies. I've tried them, each is superior in one way or another. I find MSR never uncomfortable, regardless of my choice for footwear (3mm full grain leather mtneering, 2.2mm nubuck leather, or trail runners) and I can not say that for any other binding. If bindings are uncomfortable when you wear them tight for several hours then they are not good. If your bindings aren't tight when you're doing technical work the slop may cause a fall. Now...................., if you're planning to wear plastic boots most of the time you might consider the Atlas 12 series or the Tubbs Mtn series. Each has racheting plastic buckles like those found on downhill ski boots (also found in dress belts http://www.ratchetbelt.com/products360.html ). No binding is uncomfortable when wearing plastic boots. But if you use the '12' or the 'Mtn' with leather boots you might discover painful hotspots.

The nose has a nice aggressive curve to it which is necessary in soft or new snow, but I wish it were longer for greater forward float. The snubby nose allows the entire deck to tilt forward as you're planting your foot. As I was beginning I found I face planted more often in MSR's than other manufacturers.

It's rare the spikes are useful (adds weight as well) and I never find them necessary. You'll need a phillips screwdriver to remove/install them in the field, but who wants to carry a phillips screwdriver just for one special purpose?! And if you drop a bolt in soft snow, you may loose it. And after removing your spikes more than several times the spikes are known to work loose. Call MSR, they'll admit to this 1-800-531-9531 option 3. There are two solutions for this 1) never take the spikes off (not much of a solution in my mind) 2) use permatex threadlocker (color blue #24200 is what I recommend but MSR recommends color red #27100, either way, your chances of removing them in the field now are slim to none and slim just left town.....). Besides their excess weight they hinder slightly when you're on a route with patchy snow or if you are required to cross some rocks. When walking across rocks those spikes interfere with delicate footing in dangerous ways. Sure, the manufacturers would yell at you to remove their 'shoes when walking across a little dirt or rock.... whatever.

So, those Ascent have spikes, but they interfere with 'mixed' routes and I rarely see them useful. But there's another upgrade on the Ascent that the Classic does not have, a heel lifter. This option is excellent. For long steady incline slogging these heel lifters save the back two muscles on your calves as well as your upper legs rear muscle. They also help save your achilles tendon from fatiguing. The heel lifters are easily worth the additional $30 or $40 you'll pay to get the Ascents. Think about it.

You need the additional 8" tails if you snowshoe midweek, snowshoe in fresh snow, snowshoe earlier than others on weekends, or snowshoe infrequently traveled routes. But if you rarely venture beyond classic winter lines on weekends after 7am then don't bother, the hoardes will have trampled a path to your goal. And the MSR with no tails are about the lightest 'shoes around!

ATLAS ATLAS ATLAS ATLASAtlas has 2 technical series, the 10 series and the 12 series. They are identical except the 12 has a stiff binding with racheting buckles which might be superior for stiff plastic boots; otherwise the 10 series binding is preferable for its comfort with a wide range of footwear, the 12 series binding can cause hotspots even with 2.5mm leather boots.

Atlas 10 series (1025 8"x22" or 1033 9"x27")The weight of these is similar to either MSR with added tails.

They don't have removable tails, the MSR do. If you get the 1025 then good luck snowshoeing in new snow or in light snow, and if you're over 180lbs and are going overnight..... fuggetaboudit! You'll sink past your knees when breaking trail. If you get the 1033 then you're dragging extra weight on your feet when walking on consolidated spring snow and they're much less manueverable then shorter shoes. The MSR are the only brand that allow you to change the length/flotation.

The lateral traction bars are about 6 inches long, the MSR are 13 inches. Longer bars give better control on traverses.

Beneath the heel are 2 angled bars which might help prevent backsliding up steep ascents. MSR have 4 traction bars for superior traction uphill and downhill.

The bindings don't compress flat so the shoes don't nest together well. When the shoes are strapped to your pack the bindings stick out and can snag on tree branches and rock features.

The bindings are comfortable but much more difficult to adjust than the MSR bindings with gloves on.

They do not have a heel lifter to reduce fatigue and excessive strain on the achilles tendon, calf muscles and thigh muscles. The MSR showshoes have a hee lifter.

ADDITIONAL SNOWSHOE MANUFACTURERSOther snowshoe manufacturers that just don't make a technical 'shoe, they don't have lateral rails underfoot to keep you on course while traversing a slope: Tubbs,Sherpa, Crescent Moon, Yakima (interesting hybird in their Daytripper, they combine the more typical aluminum tubing for a frame then use a solid plastic decking, like MSR)

Idea Guy.

[freeclimb9]

one more option to the snowshoe: http://www.karhu.com/images/sweeper_back.jpg

[payaso]

Great tips from everyone, thanks! It looks like it was mostly positive remarks regarding the MSR's, so Friday I decided to get them. Here's where the Bastards at REI screwed me (and probably others). They had the Denali's (the red ones that are expandable) for $99 on their website for a few days before but rather than pay for the shipping, I went down to the store here in Seattle to get them for the same price. They had absolutely no MSR's at all! I asked since they were supposed to be part of their "big winter sale" and was told that they will be in on Saturday. Saturday morning I called 4 minutes after they opened to ask if they had gotten them in that day and was told that they sold them out already (in 4 fucking minutes?) They must have only gotten 4 pairs or something. I immediately checked their website and discovered that "SURPRISE" they were no longer for sale there either. I really planned and did my research and whatever and poof, I end up with fuck-all for the effort. If one REI employee would have simply said something like, "Just order them online because they'll be gone in minutes" I would have done it. This kind of shit is why you should NEVER feel the slightest guilt when you return your torn gaiters, worn out boots, old sleeping bag, scratched glacier glasses, whatever. I'll be holding out for Summer to see if I can get some used ones, or if anyone's interested in selling any???

[nobody]

You know, I have heard that sometimes MSR sells "rebuilt" snowshoes at a discount.

A guy knew, in passing, said he got two pair of Ascents directly from MSR that were rebuilt with full warranty...apparently anyway. I know they also used to sell ski poles that way, because years ago I got a set really cheap. But it was a close out one time thing.

I do not know this for sure, but it cannot hurt to call them and ask...all they can say is no.

Good luck....

[David Yount]

I'm not sure why you're so bent out of shape, giving up on shoeing with such a promising long winter. You were willing to spend $109 w/tax at REI... and for $115 you can still have them, either color, from backcountrygear.

....from my previous post....1) MSR Denali Ascent 2002 (8x18") $143.95 3lb 12ozhttp://www.backcountrygear.com/manufacturers/MSR.cfmpay attention! it is very very rare these puppies sell for less than $159.95 and on the east coast commonly they sell for $199.95

And they now sell the Denali Classic, either Black or Red, for $109.95

Shipping is $6.00

Also, if you go to MSR which is on 1st Ave, west side, easy to miss, south of the new stadium but north of Home Depot and Sears/Starbucks/Whatever make sure to pick up the Sports Etc monthly newspaper-print magazine in the lobby. The mags right there 'cuz MSR advertises in it. Often there's a 20% coupon on any 1 item..... Enjoy.

I doubt there's any reconditioned gear available to anybody outside of employees, past employees, friends of employees. But, it doesn't hurt to ask.

[Alpine_Tom]

I've got the MSR Denali classic, and have rented other, more "standard" snowshoes (Atlas?) from REI in years past. The only thing about the MSR I don't like is they make a loud plastic sound in the snow; they sound kind of cheap. But so what: they're compact and strap easily to the outside of a pack, they are easy to put on, and since they're narrow, they are easier to walk in for a slight klutz like me. And the price is certainly right.

I've got the long tails (I weigh about 190 lbs) but haven't needed to use them yet.

[Crackfiendcarla]

I don't know if they still have them, but I bought my MSR Classics before Christmas at Second Ascent in Ballard for 80 or 90 bucks new. They also had a variety of used snowshoes for sale. Don't get the extensions unless you're taking them to Alaska or the Rockies. Not necessary on our soggy pac NW snow.

[payaso]

Thanks for the "idea" Idea Guy"! I just got my new Denali Classics from that Backcountry gear place for $115 including shipping and the lot! Can't wait for the weekend!

[allthumbs]

This was posted by Dru, and he's correct. Check to see what you have.

There is currently a recall out on MSR Denali Ascents and regular Denalis made from Sept-Nov 2001 due to some breakage problems so check the date stamp when you buy 'em.

trask