carolyn Posted January 31, 2002 Posted January 31, 2002 as I await for a pair of dual points to arrive at an undetermined date (could be late season) Ive decided I want to stop 'borrowing' crampons and just get a pair of my own (although I really like these sabretooths Ive been using lately ). I dont want to invest in another pair of duals, so Ive been considering biting the bullet and just purchasing some monopoints (been eyeing rambocomps for a while now). My concerns...although I know and understand the benefits of monos it still makes me quite nervous to only have one point in the ice. Ive just begun to really start trusting and using my feet. Seems like I would have to start all over with that. Just curious what others experienced when switching over. (and I know I can get conversion kits for some, however at this stage of the game I really dont think I would care to tinker around with that. I would just keep and use 'em as monos) Thanks, carolyn Quote
Dru Posted January 31, 2002 Posted January 31, 2002 i just went to monos this year (Charlet M10's) and i really like them. for just straight in kicking i dont notice a difference but for mixed moves and stemming and corners where you are moving your feet more, a mono lets you move your foot around and not have your points lose contact. they are also better for mixed climbing (except Rafael Slawinski says Sabretooths are the best ) as you can get n to smaller features and in cracks better with only 1 point. i think they work your calves a bit more too. also the M10 you can make mono, dual, offset mono, offset dual, etc etc. except the antibotte sucks!!!! and Grivel Rambocomp and M10 and Bionic all ripped off the DMM Terminator design, and the Terminator is cheaper than any of them at MEC, so maybe you should get that? You can even put horizontal front points and heel spurs on the terminator... [ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: Dru ] Quote
Ibex Posted January 31, 2002 Posted January 31, 2002 Carolyn, I recently went from dual points (on BD switchblades) to trident points. They are basically a mono, but with 2 short, closely spaced stabilizer points on either side. The idea is that you get the penetration, etc of mono's but also the lateral stability of duals. Note, this is the same end result as the BD Mako. Some folks are prejudice against them, and there certainly are a lot of die-hard Grivel fans out there, but I would have to recommend the Mako/trident point setup. It feels very precise and sensitive, but at the same time very stable. You can also get them pretty inexpensively online/used/ebay, BD may even still be clearing these out. Shawn Quote
Lambone Posted January 31, 2002 Posted January 31, 2002 Carolyn, One point is just as bomber as two(if the ice is good). I learned with monos, at first I didn't like them, mostly due to poor technique...but as I got better I learned to love them. They are better in some situations, but worse in others.One thing that I really liked about them is that it is easy to just hook them in your old tool placements rather than bashing in new foot holds every step. A few years ago I switched to horisontal dual points (BD-Sabertooths). These rock! I even gave away my old mono's, now I use the Sabertooths for everything. If you are looking for a second pair of crampons to compliment the dual points that you ordered, consider the Sabertooths. They are great for all around stuff, alpine, glaciers, mixed, and yes even steep waterfalls. Plus, they are fairly light, simple, and not much snow balls up underneath. (No I don't work for BD, I just have alot of their stuff. I don't see the point in having two pairs of waterfall ice crampons... Have Fun! P.S. What kind of boots did you end up with? [ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: Lambone ] Quote
EV Posted January 31, 2002 Posted January 31, 2002 Carolyn: I have to agree, the M10s are the best I've used. Tried the Bionics, don't like 'em. Back to the M10s. I also have to strongly agree with the Sabertooth crampon comments. If they're good enough for Raphel, they're good enough for me. Quote
Lambone Posted January 31, 2002 Posted January 31, 2002 quote: Originally posted by carolyn: The rages are working alright, too. Only problem I have with them is that they seem to stick in the ice TOO much. I need to figure out a way to file some of the teeth down to prevent that, I think.Now, if I could only find a glove system which works! In time, I guess. [ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: carolyn ] Yup, it' not the tool, it's those damn new Cobra picks. I wouldn't file the teeth at all, instead file the point off of the top of the tip, or nose, or whatever you wanna call it...you know what I mean? Round it out and they will clean better. I had the same problem. Did you have to buy seperate Inverno liners as well? Sounds spendy... Try the Dry tool gloves for leading and some warm belay mits. Works for me. Quote
MickP Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 Carolyn, I have climbed Lowe footfang duals for yrs and then went charlet grade 8 duals, and always was nervous about monos...now I am in M10 monos and love them...it is nice to have both depending on ice condtions, if mixed or alpine etc. If you want a pair that has both with and got a great review from Climing mag last yr, I have a brand new pair of Trango harpoons still in box with both mono and dual points included. Would sell for $85. Quote
fern Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 quote: Originally posted by Ibex: I recently went from dual points (on BD switchblades) to trident points. They are basically a mono, but with 2 short, closely spaced stabilizer points on either side. The idea is that you get the penetration, etc of mono's but also the lateral stability of duals. Note, this is the same end result as the BD Mako.Some folks are prejudice against them, and there certainly are a lot of die-hard Grivel fans out there, but I would have to recommend the Mako/trident point setup. It feels very precise and sensitive, but at the same time very stable. <snip> I have tridents on Switchblades, I hate them, I am going to sell them. The tridents are an improvement on the standard Switchblade points, but overall the crampons bug. Quote
JayB Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 Carloyn: Just a couple of crampon reviews from the mags if you're interested: http://www.rockandice.com/index.phtml?section=gear_show&content_id=175 http://www.climbing.com/Pages/equipment/equipment-207.html Quote
freeclimb9 Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 I climb with Sabretooths exclusively now. If you got the bucks to spend, go for the trendy stuff, but what you've got works extremely well. Quote
Lambone Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 Hey I thought my Sabertooths were pretty trendy! Quote
carolyn Posted February 1, 2002 Author Posted February 1, 2002 Dru-I have a friend who swears by the M10's.My understanding is the M10's, bionic, terminator, rambo's, etc are basically the same. Im not deadset on one or the other to be quite honest. shawn-you coming out this weekend or what?!?!?! If so, mind if I try yours out? Lambone-Ive pretty much been using the sabretooths this season and I REALLY DO like them (a lot!)! Im am acquiring a long term rental of some rambo duals , so it doesnt make sense as of yet to get the sabretooths. Im sure I will purchase a pair in the near future, tho. I wound up with alpha's and use an inverno liner instead of the alpha liner. The lace up system in the inverno liner (a size smaller)helps prevent my heel from slipping and seems to give me enough room (for the most part) in the forefoot so I dont have to stretch them. I usually have to play around with the laces a bit on longer days. I also cant have too much bulk. As of right now a thin sock and a toasty toe warmer is just right. Overall Im pretty pleased with them. I will add, I somehow managed to put a fairly deep and large scratch in them already. Two guys I met up in canada put holes in theirs the first day out with 'em. Hmmmm?!?!?!?!? The rages are working alright, too. Only problem I have with them is that they seem to stick in the ice TOO much. I need to figure out a way to file some of the teeth down to prevent that, I think. Now, if I could only find a glove system which works! In time, I guess. Anyhooo....Its snowing and I have the day off...think Im gonna go out and boulder on some ice before it gets dark! Thanks for the thoughts thus far. [ 01-31-2002: Message edited by: carolyn ] Quote
Dru Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 since charlet, petzl and wild country are all the same corporation now, i say go with that, there is lots of expertise there. i think theyt are reverse-enginerring from crashed UFOs or something. M10 why could they not make a good antibotte though???? that said, worn the crampons without antibottes for a few days and no ball-up problems. we'll see how it goes on alpine in the springtime. Quote
Dru Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 and of course with the new sabretooths you never need a screwdriver cause you have 2 on each foot Quote
todd Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 the rage is a weighty tool - if theyre sticking too well than your probably giving them more swing than they need. not trying to be a smart-ass (there is enough of that around here) but really if youve just switched to them from another tool, then your swing is probably a little too strong. beveling the bottom teeth might help a bit too. and oh yeah, i am also a fan of the m10's. however, if you choose to go with a mono, buy one that allows you to put the point under your big toe (the m10 gives you this option). also, if youre considering the rambocomps, note that they are one of the best crampons out there, but only on really steep/technical stuff (6's, etc.). so basically, if youre not always climbing top-notch routes (if youre usually on 3's and 4's), the rambocomps will actually climb worse than almost any other crampon out there, as you can pretty much forget about french technique, low-angle descents, etc. go with the m10's. Quote
Dru Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 whatever on the rambocomps climbing bad, todd, maybe you could explain that? like maybe grivel didnt give you payola $$$$ the way splitter gear did ?? Quote
JayB Posted February 1, 2002 Posted February 1, 2002 Review of Rambocomps from Climbing a While Back... Grivel Rambocomp(distributed by Climb High)$169.50, 37.2 ounces Summary: Simply put, the Rambcomp is the best steep-ice crampon tested. The curved, rigid frame directs the front points in toward the big toe, creating a more natural climbing stance for front-pointing, stemming, edging, etc. The rear-facing points under the ball of the foot come in handy for modified hooking and wrapping feet around pillars, and pulling across on traverses. The Rambocomp's curled toe bail is designed to reduce metal fatigue and to dampen the crampon's blow against the ice. We were unable to discern whether the bail contributed to the crampon's exceptional grip, or if it was the design of the front points themselves, but either way the Rambocomp was the stickiest model tested, actually gripping in the ice and giving added confidence on delicate terrain. Part of this may be due to the tiny, claw-like tertiary point on each side of the front points which, along with the splayed secondary points, gave great torsional stability. The security and curved design of this crampon changed the way I climb ice -- for the better. A test favorite. Available in mono- or dual-point versions. Pros: Front and secondary points face inward for a natural climbing stance, and gave the best purchase of any crampon tested. Rear-facing points under the ball of the foot allow for easy hooking, hip pulling, etc. Splayed secondary points give extra side-to-side stability when front-pointing. Cons: The tiny side points in back reduce the crampon's grip on the approach and mountaineering terrain. Price vs. performance value: A Quote
todd Posted February 2, 2002 Posted February 2, 2002 yeah that is exactly it dru, the check from grivel bounced, so i just had to let loose. it sounds to me like you might be the kind of person who has never used two-cams or rambocomps but is eager to talk shit about both. but anyway if youre really interested in my opinion, ill do my best to explain my experiences with them. if you look at the bottom of the crampon, there really isnt anything that aggressive. if you look at what there is to hold you for downhill traction, all you will see is two little dinky teeth which dont bite much anyway, and will be inches off the ice after two steps, which is all it takes for them to ball up. the little crescent things under the forefoot are not at all stable on little bulges or cauliflowers. basically, my opinion is, they suck on pretty much everything but vertical frontpointing, where indeed, they kick ass. so, if i were heading to a place like ouray or haffner creek (i.e. put crampons on at base, climb) they would be my first choice. on everything else, i would want a more versatile crampon. hope that cleared things up for you. Quote
Dru Posted February 2, 2002 Posted February 2, 2002 i walked around on some low angle ice with a buddys rambocomps and climbed a grade 3 pitch in them last year while evaluating different models and there was no problem.... face it for low angle ice just about anything will work good, even caulk boots like loggers use. the flexibility of the boot is much more important than the crampon for low angle stuff... the only thing to consider is that more points on the sole give you more traction when standing with just some part of your foot on a bulge on steep ice, and i still think the dmms are best for that cause they have like 30 little points down there. the m10s have some secondary points centred under the flat of your foot which theoretically is nice but with the antibotte they seem to just push it off the crampon too bad grivel didnt give you payola$$$ maybethey will change their mind if you make nice next time you review some gear online... Quote
carolyn Posted February 2, 2002 Author Posted February 2, 2002 Hey lambone-THANKS so much for the tip (no pun intended ) on filing the tools. I rounded the top of one before heading out this morning. Compared to the other one it was a 100% improvement! quote: Did you have to buy seperate Inverno liners as well? Sounds spendy... yes, the inverno liners were expensive. But I got a stellar prodeal on the boots. The overall cost for both was still cheaper than the boots alone if I didnt have to pd... And, it works! Todd-These are actually my first tools (and I stand by my decision! ). Im sure there are times I swing too hard (and too much ). As I mentioned above, rounding the top as lambone suggested helped tremendously. I will keep your suggestions in mind if it doesnt continue to work. Thanks! quote: however, if you choose to go with a mono, buy one that allows you to put the point under your big toe (the m10 gives you this option). Sorry, can someone explain the importance of this to me? quote: also, if youre considering the rambocomps, note that they are one of the best crampons out there, but only on really steep/technical stuff (6's, etc.). so basically, if youre not always climbing top-notch routes (if youre usually on 3's and 4's), the rambocomps will actually climb worse than almost any other crampon out there, as you can pretty much forget about french technique, low-angle descents, etc. go with the m10's. can you elaborate a bit more on why you think this is? Guess I have never heard that theory before. [ 02-01-2002: Message edited by: carolyn ] Quote
JayB Posted February 2, 2002 Posted February 2, 2002 quote: Originally posted by todd: ...so basically, if youre not always climbing top-notch routes (if youre usually on 3's and 4's), the rambocomps will actually climb worse than almost any other crampon out there, as you can pretty much forget about french technique, low-angle descents, etc. go with the m10's. No disrespect to Todd here, but I must rise in defense of the Rambocomps and disagree on this one. I just switched from the BD Swithblades (which I nominate for the worst crampons on the market, be they in mono, trident, or dual configurations) to the Rambocomps, and had I known what I was missing I would have donated an organ or two to pay for the upgrade earlier. I doubt if I'll ever climb any high-end routes, and spend virtually all of my time on 3's and easy 4's and they work like a dream, especially when the ice is convoluted or chandeliered. The flared secondary points really engage well, and in conjunction with the monopoint, stabilize your foot like a tripod. As far as french technique and other variations on low angle technique go, I don't use them much on 3's and 4's, except to cop a rest every now and then, and the RC's are far superior to the BD's for this purpose (the secondary points angled towards the back really help for this also). And, while these are definitely waterfall crampons, I've actually found them to give me much better purchase than my old Switchblades on the low angle stuff - I've never noticed or been concerned about the relative scarcity of secondary points on the rear of the crampon. So, anyhow, the moral of the story is that if they can make it easier for a hack like myself to get up the 3's and 4's, they should be able to give anyone's climbing a boost. Quote
carolyn Posted February 2, 2002 Author Posted February 2, 2002 oops, your answer wasnt there before I started responding, todd. Now, let me re-read it and let it sink in a bit more. Quote
todd Posted February 2, 2002 Posted February 2, 2002 ahhh dru, thanks for more good advice. "i really liked my machines!" (i did actually) im off to wait by the mailbox now, that check from grivel should be here soon..... once again thanks dru, and ill be sure to consult you the next time i need financial, or any sort of advice, as you seem to have it all. cheers! Quote
carolyn Posted February 4, 2002 Author Posted February 4, 2002 First of all, thanks to those of you who offered feedback and suggestions. I made a decision yesterday and purchased my OWN pair of sabretooths. I kind of think I chickened out a bit by not getting some mono's. On the other hand i needed my own pair of crampons, Ive really liked using the sabretooths, and I know they will work well for me in many situations for years to come. I will probly try and borrow or demo some mono's thru the rest of this season. If ya have anymore input, feel free to share it, as Im still in the market for a pair at some point in the near future. Ibex-hope you got home safely. Thanks for scoping out that area w/me today. I will let ya know when we figure out the safest access to the top...or when I can sucker someone into leading it TG-if ya read this when you get back...DONT send the crampons...send more beer instead! Thanks again!carolyn Quote
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