How Long should projects remain virgin?

[catbirdseat]

EgoBoy, answer the man! Were holds destroyed, or is this just careless talk?

 

You said:

 

"Yes Kevin what I did was selfish and I do deserve some flack for it and I expected it. But isn’t keeping something very public private? You know what I think is more selfish? Taking the bolts out of TWO lines and DESTROYING THE HOLDS!! I am sorry, but the whole “I don’t like the way you play so I’m going to take my ball home” attitude is weak. I’d love to hear you defend your friends position."

 

Edited May 21, 2007 by catbirdseat

[kevbone]

"We told him not to climb it, and he didn't listen to us and that hurt our feelings"

 

Damn, I wish I was a local so I could tell you guys down there that you sound like a bunch of wankers.

 

Rob….to my knowledge, nobody told anybody anything. It was a request. There are a lot of other climbers who climb there and climb the grade and NONE of them got on the route. What does that say about RP? That he has bigger balls than the rest of us? I don’t think so. My feelings are not hurt, but I side with the route setter because the route would have come to me next if Jason decided to let it go. If Ryan wanted to be respectful there was a huge list of people who came before him and would want a go at the FFA. I know it does not always work out like that. But Ryan (by his own words) made no attempt at contacting Jason. That would have been an easy contact. He knows how to get a hold of him.

[crimper]

to my knowledge - and i'm in bend - nobody smashed anything.

 

what happened:

 

ryan was told the climb was off-limits.

 

ryan climbed it anyway.

 

jason heard ryan climbed it and told kevbone he was pissed, and had a mind to destroy that route and his neighboring route.

 

a bunch of online chatter and some conversations with ryan have ensued.

 

g spotter and others made a bunch of stupid comments designed to antagonize, and the subjects of the antagonism defended themselves because it's human nature to do so.

 

the thread is now about how the locals are wankers and crybabies because they stood up for an injured climber on principle.

 

but the routes are fine and hopefully stay that way.

 

ryan palo will bring his notoriety to harder routes elsewhere.

kevbone will overcompensate for his forced retirement from climbing by posting every our he is at work.

i'll go back to lurking until something like this happens again at a crag i care about.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[richard_noggin]

Not that it means squat but here is what a Dick Head would think and his responce would be.......

There is no set timeline on a would be FA, some are worked for years to the overwhelming joy of the route setter, some are given away, some are shanked for fun, some become a piss'n contest like this one.

Climbers should allways show respect for each others projects.

Project man should just let it go...you know your not going to destroy the route, that would bring you down to EGOBOY'S level or lower.

Ego boy has just and is going to in the future have a taste of Karma for being a punk ass.

Dru is allways going to talk out his ass to keep his post count up and be spraymaster of this sprayboard.

[SmallShoes]

It's truly tragic that the bolter was injured and wasn't able to send his climb on lead. It's pretty cool that enough people respected him to not climb it to give him a chance at it if/when he recovered. But excuse me - TWO FUCKING YEARS?!

Sorry, you can call egoboy an arrogant asshole for climbing the route but I can't help but look at the injured bolter as having ego issues himself. Why does he need the fucking FFA so fucking bad? It's a climb and it would be cool to nab the FFA especially if you were the one to clean/bolt/work so hard on it. This is why people generally give the bolter a chance - because he put the work in. But in no way does he have some sort of absolute right. It's fucking public land. It's a fucking rock! This is worse than saying this is my ball and I'm not gonna let you play with it even though I'm not using it. It's everyone's ball and he got to it first - some respect deserved for that - but he can't possibly hope to hold on to it forever.

Call the guy (Ryan?) who finally climbed it an egomaniac for nabbing the FFA - whatever. It really sounds like he just wanted to climb it - not have an "In your face!" attitude about nabbing the FFA. But it seems to me that the bolter (Jason?) has more ego issues going on than Ryan if he needed/wanted the FFA so bad on this one climb that he asked no one to climb it FOR TWO YEARS. This fucked up attitude is evidence by the fact that he said he was going to chop/deface the climb and another one - making himself the biggest douchebag in this controversy. Although he hasn't done it yet from what I gather. Here's hoping it was just anger speaking.

Yeah call me an outsider, but fucking shit you people gotta get some perspective.

[pink_chalk]

I think 2 years goes to show the amount of respect some of us locals have toward each other. Things that Jim Opedyke and Kevin have taught me personally. A true rarity.

 

*Kevbone: has this route been inspected by any of the developers as of late? I'm wondering about the route's safe factor in terms of prep work and the loose boulder.

[SmallShoes]

I think 2 years goes to show the amount of respect some of us locals have toward each other. Things that Jim Opedyke and Kevin have taught me personally. A true rarity.

 

I would argue that at some point it switches from respecting the developer to the developer not having enough respect for the other climbers waiting to get on the route.

[pink_chalk]

I think 2 years goes to show the amount of respect some of us locals have toward each other. Things that Jim Opedyke and Kevin have taught me personally. A true rarity.

 

I would argue that at some point it switches from respecting the developer to the developer not having enough respect for the other climbers waiting to get on the route.

 

Yes.

 

Edited to say: -but I'm not the one who worked my ass off to establish the route, so I would be more inclined to wait it out. I think having a face-to-face with the route setter over a beer or two would have been a better outcome in this particular situation. The route setter doesnt establish 5.12 climbs for charity and its highly possible that Ryan's request would have been rejected. So, then what?

[richard_noggin]

Yes smmallshoes perspective, if ego boy wants a FA let him work for it like the rest of us TIME MONEY and lets not forget DANGER thats right DANGER ...it's phuk'n DANGERIOUS to set anchors pry loose blocks off,and those overhang'n routes, all day in a harness HORIZONTAL phuk'n kills your back,than you put part of yourself and your dreams into it so some wank can shank your project, and if you can't send your project there are many of your bro's standing in line that would be more than glad for a no work no danger send.

Trust me SmallShoes I'm not trying to stirrrr you up or any of the rest of you, but if you want new climbs show some respect for climbers putting up routes, or get off your ass and create some new ones yourself. If a climb is not known to be abandon, tell me one good reason you should shank a guys route when there sooo many new climbs yet to do, WTF to Chicken to set your own anchors or pry off loose blocks, Lazy, notoriety for being an WHAT ??????

[catbirdseat]

I'm surprised Raindawg hasn't chimed in to ask why everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over a sport route.

[richard_noggin]

I'm not go'n off for this route only, just the thought it's acceptable to SHANK a guys route rubs me the wrong way

[kevbone]

I'm surprised Raindawg hasn't chimed in to ask why everyone is getting their panties in a bunch over a sport route.

 

 

That is suprising

[SmallShoes]

if you want new climbs show some respect for climbers putting up routes

Two years seems like more than enough respect for the guy.

I'm not go'n off for this route only, just the thought it's acceptable to SHANK a guys route rubs me the wrong way

I'm not advocating stealing FFA's from the developer - it's definitely an asshole move - but I'm at least equally against "locking up" a route for a ridiculous period of time - and just for a fucking FFA. Does an FFA matter so much that you'll deprive others of the enjoyment of climbing the route? Why?

[G-spotter]

I'm not go'n off for this route only, just the thought it's acceptable to SHANK a guys route rubs me the wrong way

 

hmmm beckey and liberty crack springs to mind

[kevbone]

if you want new climbs show some respect for climbers putting up routes

Two years seems like more than enough respect for the guy.

I'm not go'n off for this route only, just the thought it's acceptable to SHANK a guys route rubs me the wrong way

I'm not advocating stealing FFA's from the developer - it's definitely an asshole move - but I'm at least equally against "locking up" a route for a ridiculous period of time - and just for a fucking FFA. Does an FFA matter so much that you'll deprive others of the enjoyment of climbing the route? Why?

 

Small....I think the problem lies in the character of the theif (if you may), he knew very well what he was doing and had all the info he needed to contact Jason. He did none of that. It would go along way toward his credibility if he would have at least tried to get intouch with Jason. But he did not.

[richard_noggin]

if you want new climbs show some respect for climbers putting up routes

Two years seems like more than enough respect for the guy.

I'm not go'n off for this route only, just the thought it's acceptable to SHANK a guys route rubs me the wrong way

I'm not advocating stealing FFA's from the developer - it's definitely an asshole move - but I'm at least equally against "locking up" a route for a ridiculous period of time - and just for a fucking FFA. Does an FFA matter so much that you'll deprive others of the enjoyment of climbing the route? Why?

 

Sounds like if this guy had not developed the route, there would not have been a route to start with.

That is the case with 90% of shanked routes they let you find the crag or scope out the line put time and work into it than want a freebe.

Try spend'n your time bushwack'n look'n for new crags instead of climb'n put'n untold time put'n up routes, have near death experiences, watch your climbing suck cause your spending all your time prep'n routes, than you will know what perspective is

[RuMR]

in europe (well, france at least)routes are bolted and cleaned by local clubs and then turned lose for the first ascent...

 

then again, this isn't europe...

[richard_noggin]

The mountaineers put'n up routes

I'm soooo done with this thread...why do I allways let myself get sucked in.

Oh I know!!!! Dick Heads never know when to STFU

[EgoBoy]

Ok, say I made a call to Kevin or Jason ( I do have both of your numbers), Jason finally decides he’s not up to the line and is willing to give it up. Kevin is next up (really sorry to make assumptions), however, he as a new father has had little time to stay in climbing shape and will need the rest of the summer to get back in shape. The summer passes and the line is not sent. What then? The route is handed down again and another year passes.

 

Btw I was never asked to call Kevin or Jason

 

I hate to include others in this incident, but it was one of the fore fathers of Ozone who encouraged me to climb the line; I’ll let you guess who.

 

You all seem to forget, I would have most certainly equipped and cleaned the line myself. Yes the development of new lines is dangerous, however to me it is an acceptable risk.

 

Said loose boulder is not loose, nor does it come into play on the route. I came within four feet of it without trying to avoid.

 

There are surprising few new moderately hard lines going up in Portland Metro nowadays. Yes there is room for more and I am developing, but most of what’s left over are contrived squeeze jobs or simply unpleasant to climb unaesthetic glue jobs.

 

I do not believe it is acceptable to take another’s line, pretty sure I made this known. However, I find it strange that one can simply stake claim of public property and hold it indefinitely. Yes there are a bunch of people who can climb this grade, many of whom are friends with the developers, of course they should get a crack at the route before anyone one else, because friends of developers deserve preferential treatment in the climbing world. We are in a very grey area. What I did was wrong, reserving the line was wrong. What I took was a small piece of credit, people will always know Jason did the work. An FA holds so much more weight than an FFA.

 

Yes, I did what many had encouraged me to do. I will not name names, but it is substantially more than those who opposed. I am not talking about climbers verses developers, I am referring to others who have developed routes.

 

I was told by Kevin and others that Jason had hurt Himself AFTER he developed the line in a totally isolated incident. Had he been hurt preparing, this would be a much different story, and I would have not considered climbing the line.

 

Kevin, I did respect your wishes…a year ago. One whole season passes and there is no end in sight. It was good of you to show me around the area, because of that kindness at the time, I avoided it.

 

This is an issue where I will not see eye to eye with the developers of Ozone. My ethic is that all routes are open after a reasonable period (a month max). Yes I am actively working a line which I prepared and it is open to all. This particular route was extremely dangerous to clean (high cave in risk). So to all who didn’t read my original post, I would have prepared this line myself had I seen it first.

 

-Ryan Palo

 

[Stewart]

All right then, I've learned alot and am thankful to everyone for contributing to my education.

 

Rule #1 Make all attempts to contact developers before poaching a route

Rule #2 Always follow Rule #1

Rule #3 After poaching said route, keep it to yourself and move on.

Rule #4 When starting a new on-line account, never call yourself Egoboy.

Rule #5 Always follow Rule #1

 

Now Newbies, hopefully you haven't posted your gear on ebay, but if you did I'm looking for a new set of aliens. Wait, newbies don't climb traditional lines.

 

G-Spotter, thanks for your helpful comments! Now run along back to spray where people give a shit what your saying!

 

Stewart

[Jens]

My ethic is that all routes are open after a reasonable period (a month max). -Ryan Palo

No that ain't the ethic. One month isn't reasonable. If you are a regular joe that works during the week that could mean only 4 days of rehearsing the route! (One weekend day a week) Yikes, Sharma and others never send their masterpieces that quick!

Some areas have seen or heard of cast iron frying pans padlocked to hangers and the like because of route poachers.

I guess many of us will have to continue to leave some drilled holes empty until redpoint day.....sad.

[Stewart]

EgoBoy, routes have been handed down several times out at "unnamed Crag" Didn't you study your history book?

 

Is it not true that you were givin Jason's number by the elder before the project was sent?

 

Do you not agree that "The Humbling" is the perfect name for that route with all the events that have takin place?

 

Thanks for the lessons!

 

Stewart

[EgoBoy]

It would have made little difference had I called him. If the route were to be handed down it would have certainly not have gone to me. It would have definitely gone to Kevin and would remain unclimbed.

 

Egoboy was a name given to me by one of your counterparts.

 

I dont really agree with the humbling due to the fact that neither side is so. I could care less what you call it. In fact I dont even care if I'm in the guide, so long as the route remains open.

 

 

[G-spotter]

My ethic is that all routes are open after a reasonable period (a month max). -Ryan Palo

No that ain't the ethic. One month isn't reasonable. If you are a regular joe that works during the week that could mean only 4 days of rehearsing the route! (One weekend day a week)

 

If you can't send in a month maybe you should either

1) pick an unclimbed line you CAN send in a month instead of something that's too hard for you

or 2) let someone who has the time to do it properly make the FAs, cause if you can only give it 4 days out of a month you are a dilletante

[G-spotter]

How long should Todd Skinner have waited before blowtorching the axle grease out of City Park BTW? Or should he have just said "Oh gee it's Alan's project" and stayed home?