Favorite Zone Diet Meal(s)?

[Dechristo]

What do you think about sprouted grain breads?

 

This bread is great...makes toast that's to die for, dahling!!!1

[i_like_sun]

Oh yes, I certaily agree with you! Ezekiel is turning into a unbreakable habbit.... other breads just suck.

[downfall]

ZMA scares me. Does your doctor recommend it, or the creatine? That stuff just dehydrates me; also if its a transport it probably contains sugar.

 

Ever think about trying to get more natural protein? Whey is easy but absorbed pretty fast. I go with at most 2 tbsp/day. Check out egg protein (can't remember what its called though) if you need to supplement and its not getting cooked (its be gross in the oatmeal).

 

 

[ashw_justin]

Its not new but its contrary to current ineffective diet of low fat and high carb which pervades most nutritional advice you get or have gotten in the last 20 years.

 

I agree that there is a misleading dogma that carbs=good and fat=bad. Dietary fat is a perfectly acceptable energy source; excess carbs are converted into fat for storage. Some metabolisms may not be genetically adapted to high carb consumption, and refined sugar may even short circuit regulatory pathways.

 

Most of those differences however are irrelevant as long as calorie consumption is not in excess. In terms of basal energy utilization ('low intensity'), fat and carbs are metabolized quite similarly. So, drop the calories while making sure to eat enough protein (so that you don't have to use your own body protein for energy). That's pretty simple, no?

 

The danger I see, however, is that if you combine a low-calorie, high protein diet with a lot of aerobic exercise, you'll burn mostly dietary protein for energy and this could hurt both health and performance. This is where I think that the concept of any approximate optimal ratio is likely bunk--the appropriate ratio of Protein:Other probably varies drastically depending on how much aerobic exercise you do. It shouldn't hurt you to eat more carbs as long as you are burning that extra energy. Is that something that you guys think about, or do you just stick to strict percentages?

[downfall]

I don't think the zone should be classified as a high protein diet (implying low carb). Its actually 40% carb, 30% protein, and 30% fat.

 

The problem with upping carbs is that if its the wrong type of carbs (i.e., high glycemic index) it triggers an insulin response which then prevents the body from being able to metabolize fat as an energy source. Entering the Zone has the reference on this. Its not really about carbs vs protein vs fat it about maintaining a balanced insulin level and the zone argument is that the ratio is the best way to do that.

 

If you don't have a crazy insulin roller coaster going on in your body your body can use fat, protein, or carbohydrate to make glucose.

 

The other aspect of the ratio of the zone is hormonal optimization which underlies everything in how your body works. Its more complicated than just boiling it down to energy for your muscles or brain.

[i_like_sun]

I dont' stick to percentages. Basically I just eat what I want, when I want. I have a basic "guideline" that I follow, but nothing is cement.

 

I definately prefer to eat alot more protein, and less carbs and fat. However, I just took it to the extreme last summer and got way too lean. Now I just try to listen to my body way better...

 

For gaining muscle, carbs are essential I believe. Simply because insulin is so anabolic. Also, when the brain is deprived of enough glucose (even miniscule amounts such as when starving on the way out from a climb) thinking actually gets rewired. Basically, what I've read says that carbs are important for proper use of the cerebral cortex, and not the limbic system. That could partially explain why anorexia is such a hard disease to beat: the brain simply cannot function enough to tell itself that it is starving!

 

As for ZMA and creatine, my proff at school is actually the researcher who developed ZMA, and creatine simply has 1000's of studies that show it works. I don't get dehydrated very often.... I drink roughly 5 Nalgenes per day.

 

[fern]

like downfall says, the essence of the zone diet is a balance of carbs and protein at each meal/snack that minimizes the insulin rollercoaster. The book-standard zone diet is not optimized for a high-output athletic lifestyle, nor for the transient caloric demands of sports like alpine climbing where time and pack-weight place limits on food choices. But there has been plenty of research/experimentation in adapting the principles towards those activities - the crossfit and gym jones crowds have both investigated and written articles on this. My reading of it is that the excess caloric requirement that is a result of steady training (going to the gym for an hour, 5 days a week etc.) is met by increasing fat intake (avocados, almonds, olive oil shots etc.) while the transient demands of a day of hard climbing etc. are best met with an addition of high carb snacks on the go(GU etc.) mixed in.

[Chad_A]

Totals: Between 2300 and 3000 Calories, depending on my activity for the day. Sometimes it can get PACKED away... My metabolism is insanely fast. If I don't eat [more] than 2000 a day, man, I lose weight FAST!

 

I feel your pain...I've been recently told that I'm at 4.6% body fat and "at risk for injury and illness". Zone, well, I just make sure I get more than 70 gm of protein a day, and after that, eat the carbs and fat that looks good to keep my appetite satiated. I'm 158 lbs, and I'm guessing that the 2800 or so kcal I'm taking in isn't cutting it.

 

 

[UW_climber]

Its not necessarily that you need to eat meat. You just need to get some protein in your body because you've been fasting all night and your in a catabolic state.

 

I'd like to find a way to improve my diet since judging by my scale weight I could stand to drop some weight. I don't know anything other than I've heard the name, "Zone," before.

 

One the other hand I kind of question this whole diet thing. One of my climbing partners is not fat at all, and he looks to be in good shape. At the same time he can eat huge meals that I can't even keep up with yet I'm the one who could stand to drop some weight.

 

I have a hard time thinking I need to eat meat for breakfast. I try and stick to cerial in the morning.

[UW_climber]

 

As for ZMA and creatine, my proff at school is actually the researcher who developed ZMA, and creatine simply has 1000's of studies that show it works. I don't get dehydrated very often.... I drink roughly 5 Nalgenes per day.

 

I take it you goto Western? ZMA rocks my world. I'm taking it with me to Peru. Although you might not want to take milk & zma @ the same time. From everything I've read dairy products work against the zma if taken @ the same time. You can google it. It might have came from t-nation.com but can't remember.

[fern]

 

I chopped a bunch of bullshit from this thread. Please do not use this forum as a chat room. i_like_sun you already have a thread about your own issues with food and training, so please refrain from co-opting all other tangentially related threads to your own agenda. Muffy, you know this is not the spray forum.

 

Please limit further discussion to the Original Topic: Zone Diet, favorite recipes, blah blah blah.

[sk]

I chopped a bunch of bullshit from this thread. Please do not use this forum as a chat room. i_like_sun you already have a thread about your own issues with food and training, so please refrain from co-opting all other tangentially related threads to your own agenda. Muffy, you know this is not the spray forum.

 

Please limit further discussion to the Original Topic: Zone Diet, favorite recipes, blah blah blah.

 

i was indeed reading and posting here to find some help. I have been struggling with my weight (more than usual) becuase i quit smoking. breaking my foot didn't help. i will be sure to use other resources in the future.

 

thank you for letting me know what is acceptable for me here, vs John and other people on other threds. it was not my intention to derail the conversation but to contibute and to learn.

[fern]

I should also point out that John stepped beyond the bounds of this forum himself in some of his comments to you Muffy. I chopped it all. I hope this thread can stay on track from now on.

[high_on_rock]

I don't know if the Black Beans are part of the Zone, but I would love to hear what others do to make eating beans day-after-day a less objectionable experience. Any great advice?

[Dan_Miller]

In a word, Beano!

[Sherri]

I don't know if the Black Beans are part of the Zone, but I would love to hear what others do to make eating beans day-after-day a less objectionable experience. Any great advice?

 

Soak the beans overnight in water, but don't cook them in that same water; drain and cook in fresh water.

 

(Here's the scientific version, from KitchenSavvy.com: "If beans give you gas, you can reduce the effect somewhat by discarding the soaking water. Flatulence is caused by large carbohydrate molecules that pass through the stomach and upper intestine undigested. Once they enter the lower intestine, the natural bacteria found there break these long molecules up, creating carbon dioxide and hydrogen gases. Those long molecules are about 1/3 complex sugar molecules called oligosaccharides and 2/3 other carbohydrates that hold the cell walls together. The oligosaccharides are water soluble and most, but not all, of them will be discarded with the soaking water. The others are not water soluble and remain in the beans after soaking. Prolonged cooking, until the beans are completely softened, helps to break down most of the remaining molecules that cause flatulence.")

 

And don't stand upwind of anyone, just in case.

 

[downfall]

In term of modifying the weekly intake of your normal zone proportions when climbing or doing other work at higher intensities there are a few issues which come up:

1. Most atheletes do a 5x or 10x multiplier on the fat over their daily intake. Once you get off the insulin rollercoaster fat becomes a much more efficient and viable source of calories. Thus any variability I have is done primarily with fat.

2. I've heard of people fat loading before long efforts (like 2/3 days climbs), supposedly you need to do it 3 or so days in advance up to the day of activity. I haven't tried this myself though.

3. In terms of just increased calories when out in the mountains I just eat more snacks/blocks but I still do it in the protein to carb zone ratio. So Jerkey with My GU + Mac nuts.

4. One big problem I've developed with the zone while climbing is that I don't vary my diet enough in terms of the schedule. The prescriptive nature of the zone makes it easy to get on a daily schedule but any time this is thrown off, which is very frequent when climbing, I tend to crash hard. Last fall I did a short period of a program called intermitent fasting where for every 24 hour period you do 15 hours of fasting and 9 hours of eating your normal zone portions; you also move the 15 hours fast around within the 24 hour period. Lots of theories I don't understand around this but its kind of hard to stick to and now I just try and vary my eating schedule more.

[i_like_sun]

Has anyone on here every tried to sprout grains themselves? I've been doing it with black wild rice, and supposedly it drasically increases the nutritional value and makes the starches more complex.

 

On top of that, the taste and texture are WAY better!

 

I've just been washing the rice, then letting it soak in water in the fridge for 15 hours. Then it cooks in under 10 minutes at a very low heat. Totally delicious!

[high_on_rock]

Helpful info sherri-doll. I have alwasy just cooked in the soaking water, but will alter the process. I think I just need to man-up and get used to proudly farting in public.

[archenemy]

Has anyone on here every tried to sprout grains themselves? I've been doing it with black wild rice, and supposedly it drasically increases the nutritional value and makes the starches more complex.

 

On top of that, the taste and texture are WAY better!

 

I've just been washing the rice, then letting it soak in water in the fridge for 15 hours. Then it cooks in under 10 minutes at a very low heat. Totally delicious!

From what I've been told (I am no nutritionist) sprouted stuff has more nutritional value to it b/c a plant puts a great deal of its energy into growing up when it is a youngin. Therefore, there are a lot of nutrients in a concentrated spot when a baby plant is trying to grow; and hence, more energy and vitamins for you when you eat them.

[Sherri]

Helpful info sherri-doll. I have alwasy just cooked in the soaking water, but will alter the process. I think I just need to man-up and get used to proudly farting in public.

 

You go, baby! Don't be afraid to blow your own horn.

 

 

As for the sprout subject, I'm a fan of home-grown, too. It's nice to mix your own blend of seeds(alfafa, mung bean, radish, etc) and sprout 'em all together.

[i_like_sun]

I've been eating basically TONS of olive oil and garlic and I'm noticing that my skin is feeling more moist and healthy! I've read some studies about the mono and poly unsaturated fats in olive that help to boost androgen production.

 

Just thought I'd throw that on here.

[Sherri]

I've been eating basically TONS of olive oil and garlic and I'm noticing that my skin is feeling more moist and healthy!

 

 

I bet you smell yummy, too.

 

[i_like_sun]

You bet! I've got a nice stinky strong immune system! Praise garlic!

[Knottygirl]

I don't know if the Black Beans are part of the Zone, but I would love to hear what others do to make eating beans day-after-day a less objectionable experience. Any great advice?

I posted this but it got chopped, i'll try again...

when the beans are simmering skim the froth/foam that forms. soaking the beans helps. you can also add kombu, a sea vegetable.