Cunning Stunt - rebolted!

[DirtyHarry]

Since when has this pitch been unnecessarily re-retrobolted?

[NTM]

it's probly been chopped and re-bolted 3X since last month, i just accept that sometimes it will be "in" and sometims not...

[catbirdseat]

I thought it was Cunning Stunt, but what do I know?

[TrogdortheBurninator]

It was in all last spring and summer.

[EWolfe]

I am a tool man, personally.

 

 

It don't matter too much what Ya do, I just loves me some technical hardware!

[TimL]

 

Leave the climb as it is. It's a nice route. It's been chopped, bolted chopped and bolted. If someone chops it, it'll be bolted again. The only thing that will suffer is the climb itself.

 

If your so worried about bolted cracks, you don't have to look very far away from Cunning Stunt to find another one.

 

 

[DirtyHarry]

I'm not planning on chopping it. Not worth the time. I also wouldn't say that its much of a bolted crack, just that I'm not much of a good climber and I've led it multiple times with only that one bolt down low. The "new" bolts seem unnecessary and take away from some of the spice of the route. But that seems to be what the kids want these days.

[ZONK]

DH

Where is this at ?

[RuMR]

index...

 

great route...with bolts or without...personally, the "spicy" version is better...

[DCramer]

If I remember correctly when I first led CS there were no bolts (or TCUs for that matter)– not even at the anchor. At the top of the arch section to the right and down slightly there was a small sapling growing out of a funky flake that was slung and rapped. Soon a bolt anchor was installed at the top of the arch.. Much better! Eventually a route was squeezed in to the left and CS was lengthened and fully bolted. The bolts came and went in a variety of configurations. I followed it a year or two ago and recall a fp near the bottom, a bolt near the flake/hole and then another bolt near the base of the arch. Above the arch there are two bolts and a bolted anchor. There were a bunch of bolts on the route just to the left.

 

What’s changed? Just what is the spicy version(s)? The version I followed seemed fine to me.

 

By the way I have seen people place cams in the flake/hole many times and wondered if in a long fall the rock would break. Has anyone seen a big fall there. Every other similar feature I am familiar with at Index that has been fallen on has broken. Just an FYI.

 

[andyf]

I first climbed it in the late 80s. I don't remember very clearly, but I seem to remember you had to weave back and forth between disconnected cracks and flakes and use a bunch of long runners. A good exercise in placing pro for sure, but I remember thinking it was a little too much hassle off the logical line of ascent to make it worth it to climb again. I didn't climb it again until last year, in the same group ascent Darryl mentions. I thought the direct bolted route offered higher quality climbing. Just my opinion.

[bigwalling]

Index is funky... which is why I'm planning on placing bolts on many existing routes so I never need doubles of any gear. For any new routes I do in desert, which forms many parrellel cracks, I will only place bolts where you need a 3rd same size piece. I plan on taking this idea all over the world so that everyone can enjoy and doesn't have to be so weighted down. Since we all place different amounts of gear, it will just be made as to be non runout in nature so you can always fall and feel safe. Everyone should be able to enjoy! I wonder who will chop and then who will follow in my footsteps and re-retrobolt.

[matt_m]

Just leave it as is - a good route. Save the energy, effort and arguments for something that REALLY matters in an area that has much more clearly defined ethic/style preferences. INDEX is a fantastic place because of it's mixed ethics. Just as the Gunks are for their clear no bolts ethics and a place like Kalymnos, GR is for it's staunch only bolts ethics.

 

Beacon is an area to get in a fuss over for example...

[sexual_chocolate]

I think Greg Child was FA, in '83?

 

Listed as a gear climb back then.

 

Why do people take it upon themselves to do this sort of thing? Does anyone here know the identity of the bolter?

 

The climb protects completely with gear, barely warranting a PG rating. Why the repeated need to bolt it is beyond me. Is it simply an ego game about who will have the last word?

 

If anyone knows the identity of the bolter, it would be nice if this information was shared in this public forum, so that anonymity would play no part in this saga.

[DCramer]

The FA was by Greg Child and Greg Collum. I would have mentioned the fact that Greg Collum was the first to bolt this route except I thought it was common knowledge. He replaced several chopped bolts as well. I guess he viewed it as a work in progress longer than most people. I am not sure if he was invloved in the last placement of bolts; however, for what it's worth, I believe he approves of this configuration and feels that this configuration is a compromise between the fully bolted stage and no bolts.

 

Although I have no problem posting on this board, I would not feel comfortable "outing" anyone who has chosen not to participate on CC.com.

 

I just have a hard time getting worked up over the whole issue. After it was first chopped Greg called me up wondering if I had done the deed. I gave him my feedback and others gave him feedback as well. As it turns out he stopped his (Index) retro-bolting activity because of the negative feedback. This route keeps popping up for some reason.

 

The FA was not in 1983.

[sexual_chocolate]

What was collum's reasoning for bolting such obvious gear climbs as angora grotto, black cat bone, cunning stunt, and even most of climax control? (what others he may have bolted, i don't know.)

 

I heard it said that he wanted convenience, since he lived in town and could go out with just some draws....I don't know how much sense that makes, but i can't really come up with any decent reasons myself. then there's the (ex) plastic hold on what was formerly known as Pine Nut(?) (now known as Heart Transplant) out at Nason Ridge. His actions seem like an arrogant disregard for the obvious, as does the recent rebolting of cunning stunt.

[DirtyHarry]

The first time I did this climb, 4 or 5 years ago, a few bolts had recently been chopped. The state of the climb then, with a bolt protecting the crux (though placed a little lower down than bolts on most modern sport routes) and some bolts after the crux where its mostly face climbing, seemed like a good compromise.

 

Regardless, just had three super nice days cragging at old Index. Good times!