Ice screws - Titanium vs. ???

[terrible_ted]

Hi:

Given that the 17 and 23cm USHBA titanium screws with drivers run about $10 cheaper than corresponding BD Express screws, why would I carry the extra weight of the BD's?

I can understand the value of the shorter BD screws to avoid tie-offs, but it just seems a bit weird to be able to get both light weight and (relative) affordability at the same time.

I don't give a rat's ass about the 'other' titanium ice screws out there with the acknowledged QC problems they have; USHBA is the only titanium gear provider I know of with a decent reputation.

-t

[Cpt.Caveman]

Terrible Ted,

Good topic and I think it deserves well thought out responses that I am waiting for.

Personally I am scared of the Russian made screws but who knows my fear may be based on ignorance. Meaning what kind of quality\strength tests are standard for Ushba??

Then again that ice shit always scares me

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 08-06-2001).]

[Alex]

Ted,

Ushba equipment is pretty high quality. These are not the same TI screws that made appearances at REI and EMS for 3$ a pop several years ago.

here are some stats: http://www.ushba.com/catalog/ice.html#ti%20III

The real question is, how well do they place compared to a BD or smileys screw, with one hand, on lead? If you think that they are about the same, there is no real reason not to beef up your rack with them. If you think that the BD or Smileys (personally, I hate express screws in most cases) screws place and clean much easier, then they are worth the weight.

I personally like the TI screws. Both Ushba and Grivel(?) make good, beefy TI screws that are lighter than the comparable CRO-MOLY screw. But my rack is still mostly steel.

Alex

[This message has been edited by Alex (edited 08-06-2001).]

[tobytortorelli]

hey guys! i have a couple of lightweight titanium screws to sell if anyone's interested..?? just need to get them out of my tibia first!!

[Juneriver]

Toby-

You probably overpaid for those things...

My question is if the Ti screws will keep their teeth sharp as long as steel or not?

Anyone?

[AJ]

I have tried some older (but still plenty beefy) Ushba screws vs. BD Express, old BD, Smiley, and CM Laser screws. The Ushba worked but not as well as the others. I'd be lying if I said the BD Express wasn't a nice screw, but I'm not going to give up my CM Lasers (17 cm) - they thread real nice. I probably wouldn't buy an Ushba unless they have changed the design. The older self-ratcheting model was difficult for me to use.

[Yossarian]

With the added cost and weight of BD screws, the only place I may choose them over USHBA is at-your-limit, easy access waterfall climbs. I don't see why BD would be picked over USHBA for any climb where weight is a concern. They don't thread that much better.

[Dru]

one thing i have found about titanium screws is that when it is cold ice really sticks to them. it is almost impossible to get the ice cores out of the screws without using a lighter if the temp is below -5 c. the only way I have found to do it is to spray them with wd-40 before every day of use. also cause they are sticky they are harder to turn in the ice than steel.

they are great light weight pieces for summer glacier mountaineering where its warm though.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah I know the pros and cons myself having used many different brands.. What about the strength? Is there some documentation about the testing is what I wanna know ..

[philfort]

I have a few of the ushba screws. I don't have any fears about their reliability, but they definitely don't go in the ice as well as the black diamond or grivel screws I have. I'm not sure if its the tooth design, or just that titanium creates more friction with the ice than steel, but they're definitely harder to get in. No problem if you can push on the screw really hard, but it would be a different story if you're dangling from one arm trying to get one in.

[erik]

the softer ti, metal wears out faster then the hardend steel of the other screws. though you shuld theroretically replace your screws after 1-2 seasons, for someone who climbs frequetly. anyone wanna buy 14 screws?

i wouldn't place/buy ti screws for the intent to lead with them. bailing on them might be something else, but with ice there are other ways.

[Dru]

Ti itself is softer but the Ti forms a Ti02 coating with the air which is harder than stainless steel (they have to add the Cr and Zn to iron to get stainless to do the same thing.)

So until you sharpen them Ti screws should be more, not less, durable than steel??

Have placed Ti on lead but due to the extra difficulty due to friction, I usually save them to place as belay screws while standing on belay ledges, where other arm is not pumping out.

[Cpt.Caveman]

Yeah I placed TI on lead. They are hard to place.

What about docmunentation on strength and testing?