Illegals

[tvashtarkatena]

This problem starts on that invisible line called the border. That is where you stop it. The whole concept of stopping business owners will just naturally happen once the border is in control.

 

I liken it to the BRM. You don't shoot at the berm in front of the target. You shoot at the target.

 

Yes, the Maginot Line, the Great Wall, Hadrian's Wall, this strategy has produced, throughout history...oh, wait a minute.

 

Guarding borders is a classical formula for expending the most amount of resources for the least amount of results; it addresses the problem not at its source, but at its end point, where it is most disperse, widespread, and difficult to control.

 

The source of the problem is the demand for illegal labor. That involves the fewest number of most easily tracked people with the most to loose. I realize this is a difficult concept for some die hard literalists to grasp. After all, it does require one step of logic.

 

Why shoot at the enemy behind the berm when you can shoot at the leadership that ordered them there in the first place? There are a lot fewer of them, and they're a lot easier to find.

[JosephH]

In principle, I agree but in reality what are the numbers of companies who hire illegally?

 

Enough to have the problem we're discussing - it's a big number and extends up to the Walmarts.

[ZimZam]

What would most of you do if you lived in one of these underdeveloped countries? Would you attempt an illegal crossing of the border? It would seem a no-brainer. Stay home and struggle for ever, or try for a piece of that pie. However small that slice may be.

 

Walk a mile in their shoes.

[tvashtarkatena]

Illegal Immigration - Crime

 

According to US Representative Steve King (R-IA), illegal aliens commit 12 murders every day in the U.S. and kill another 13 daily through drunk driving incidents.

 

That's more than 9,000 people killed every year by illegal aliens.

 

There's nothing I like better than an un-referenced citation of outrageously unbelievable statistics.

 

I'll just deal with a couple of numbers here. That's all that's needed to nuke the credibility of the rest. Ready, kiddies?

 

Illegals kill 12 people a day? That's 4380 a year.

 

From theFBI website:

 

"National Volume, Trends, and Rates

The UCR Program’s homicide data for 2004 showed that for the first time in 4 years, the estimated number of murders in the United States decreased. An estimated 16,137 persons were murdered nationwide,"

 

That would mean that illegals committed 4380/16,137, or 27% of all homocides in the US in 2004. Again, from the FBI website:

 

"Offenders

In homicides where the race of the offender was known, 50.0 percent were black, 47.6 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were other races. (Based on Table 2.5.) Data from single victim/single offender incidents showed that 92.2 percent of black victims were murdered by black offenders, and 84.8 percent of white victims were murdered by white offenders. (Based on Table 2.7.)"

 

So 97.6% of offenders where either black or white (not hispanic, and yes, the FBI treats that as a separate racial category), which means less than 2.4% of homocides, or roughly 387 per year, could have been committed by hispanics, legal or illegal. You're citation is off by at least a factor of 12, and probably much more, but hey, that's within the realm of 'creative' license, no?

 

We see similar 'irregularities' in your drunk driving statistics.

 

13 deaths a day = 4745 per year. From the Alcohol Alert Website:

 

"There were 16,694 alcohol-related fatalities in 2004 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year."

 

Again, we see illegals as being responsible for a whopping 28% of all drunk driving related traffic fatalities. There are an estimated 12 million illegals in the USA, or 4% of the population. 4% of the population is responsible for 28% of the drunk driving fatalities? Illegals are 7 times more likely to kill someone while drunk driving? Riiiiiiighhht.

 

Next time you quote statistics, I'd recommend steering clear of politicians as your source.

 

 

 

 

 

[Clavote]

Illegal Immigration - Crime

 

According to US Representative Steve King (R-IA), illegal aliens commit 12 murders every day in the U.S. and kill another 13 daily through drunk driving incidents.

 

That's more than 9,000 people killed every year by illegal aliens.

 

There's nothing I like better than an un-referenced citation of outrageously unbelievable statistics.

 

I'll just deal with a couple of numbers here. That's all that's needed to nuke the credibility of the rest. Ready, kiddies?

 

Illegals kill 12 people a day? That's 4380 a year.

 

From theFBI website:

 

"National Volume, Trends, and Rates

The UCR Program’s homicide data for 2004 showed that for the first time in 4 years, the estimated number of murders in the United States decreased. An estimated 16,137 persons were murdered nationwide,"

 

That would mean that illegals committed 4380/16,137, or 27% of all homocides in the US in 2004. Again, from the FBI website:

 

"Offenders

In homicides where the race of the offender was known, 50.0 percent were black, 47.6 percent were white, and 2.4 percent were other races. (Based on Table 2.5.) Data from single victim/single offender incidents showed that 92.2 percent of black victims were murdered by black offenders, and 84.8 percent of white victims were murdered by white offenders. (Based on Table 2.7.)"

 

So 97.6% of offenders where either black or white (not hispanic, and yes, the FBI treats that as a separate racial category), which means less than 2.4% of homocides, or roughly 387 per year, could have been committed by hispanics, legal or illegal. You're citation is off by at least a factor of 12, and probably much more, but hey, that's within the realm of 'creative' license, no?

 

We see similar 'irregularities' in your drunk driving statistics.

 

13 deaths a day = 4745 per year. From the Alcohol Alert Website:

 

"There were 16,694 alcohol-related fatalities in 2004 – 39 percent of the total traffic fatalities for the year."

 

Again, we see illegals as being responsible for a whopping 28% of all drunk driving related traffic fatalities. There are an estimated 12 million illegals in the USA, or 4% of the population. 4% of the population is responsible for 28% of the drunk driving fatalities? Illegals are 7 times more likely to kill someone while drunk driving? Riiiiiiighhht.

 

Next time you quote statistics, I'd recommend steering clear of politicians as your source.

 

 

 

 

 

Glad that's cleared up. I was staying away from illegal drunk drivers and muderers there for a while.

 

I had my suspicions that his sources included some slanted statistics or just plain made up statistics. Perhaps the same propaganda/entertainment source the fox news uses. Or maybe Stouth Shaft does not want to check his sources. Or he just like sources that support what he believes. Whatever.

 

It was a good debate and my entertainment value was excellent. I could almost see Sheaf Stout (a brand of condoms incidentally, for men with ED in malaysia) spit flying out of his mouth, as he typed his statistically accurate post against wetbacks, beaners, greasers and Guatemalans. Illegals. But I did notice a slight bias even as he tried to remain, race neutral. How about a fence on the Canadian border? Those bastards just blend in to the slowly shrinking anglo population and unless you question them carefully and wait for the accent on the O, you can't find those Canadian terrorist. That Canadian bacon under the arm may just be a dirty nuclear bomb. (Although Canadian Bacon is a term used for some wild girls. Much like we would use the term "skank".)

 

The world is changing. You will die and the world will keep changing. It's inevitable. Culture, race, it all changes.

 

The same fucking argument ever since some asshole from the fertile crescent wanted to plant wheat in my hunter gatherer territory out west.

 

Hey, you got a cute daughter? I know she wants some.

 

I will tell you that the Mexican government is corrupt and it it has one of the worst records of collecting taxes from their European-Mexican citizens. They have the worlds 13th largest economy and they still have to have their citizens brave life and limb to support themselves and their families.

 

Shame on the Mex. Gov. They will lose some good hard working people. People who have to endure incredible hardship and challenges just to make less than the minimum wage. That gene pool represents some pretty outstanding human qualities of strength, intelligence and balls. This will come in handy for the US. And believe me, I want their offspring to get college educations so they can pay mroe taxes to support the older, retired workers and keep this country competitive so my dollar will go further on vacation in Cancun.

 

OK, off to get me a taco made by people who know how to make a taco. Authentico.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

I AM SO GLAD YOU GUYS ARE WORKING THIS OUT. KEEP IT UP!

 

Good. Now get back to dropping MySql tables and spying on IP addresses.

 

While you are at that you can fix the reply box so that it is full length. If you need help let me know.

 

 

OOOHH!! OOOOOOHH!!!!!! A GURU!!!!!

 

select count(*) as brain_cells from oly.brain_cells;

 

0

 

[olyclimber]

DBA jokes are always funny

 

you know, its said that the degree of normality in a database is inversely proportional to that of its DBA.

 

[KaskadskyjKozak]

DBA jokes are always funny

 

you know, its said that the degree of normality in a database is inversely proportional to that of its DBA.

 

what's the inverse of third normal form?

 

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm reminded of a three day trip I made out to Brewster, Washington, for some traffic free cycling.

 

Brewster is a small ag town on the Columbia, so it's no surprise that most of the population is hispanic. The stereotypes are all there: the starch white shirts, perfectly white teeth, polished boots and belt buckles, crisp new Resistols, ready smiles. We cycled into town nervously, feeling at any moment that a gang of these overly polite threats to national security might screetch their F150 with the Virgin de Guadalupe sticker to a hault, drag us into their brightly painted, overcrowded house, and force feed us homemade tamales until we choked to death.

 

What a frightening contrast to the minority white population, which consisted of gender questionable meth heads with more than a few ready "FUs" available for anyone who dared to glance at their drunk driver smashed picket fence dentition for longer than a psychzoids microsecond.

 

Build the fence! Protect our white trash from the Invasion of the Mole Hordes!

[tvashtarkatena]

 

4.1 million crimes committed by illegal aliens

 

As reported in Grassfire's booklet, "The Truth About The Illegal Invasion," some 325,000 criminal illegal aliens will be incarcerated in state and federal prisons this fiscal year. A GAO study found that illegal aliens commit, on average, 12.6 criminal offenses. This means incarcerated illegal aliens have committed over 4.1 million crimes -- and that does not include illegal alien criminals who are not incarcerated. And we learned from Rep. Tom Tancredo that thousands of illegals are coming from terrorist and suspect nations.

 

This statement fails to tie the 4.1 million crimes (or are they just arrests?) to the 325,000 (???) illegal aliens that will supposedly be incarcerated in a single year. Even better, the 325,000 itself is an interesting number, when you compare it to the far less number of 272,000 TOTAL prisoners, regardless of race of citizenship, which are RELEASED every year in the USA. So, we're incarcerating more illegals per year than we're releasing total prisoners? Riiiiiiight. Just whose ass are these statistics being pulled from?

 

Just to make things even spicier, a statistic from from another article Sheaf Stout cites in the VERY SAME POST seems to disagree with these numbers (and why not? They're made up.):

 

"The 55,322 (incarcerated) illegal aliens studied represented a total of 459,614 arrests – some eight arrests per (incarcerated) illegal alien; "

 

That would be a recitivism rate of about 9 arrests per incarcerated illegal alien. Now let's compare illegals with incarcerated criminals in general:

 

From the

DOJ's website

(not some conservative pundit or politician):

 

• "The 272,111 offenders discharged in 1994 accounted for nearly 4,877,000 arrest charges over their recorded careers."

 

That's 18 arrests per incarcerated offender, or twice the number for illegal aliens.

 

Anyone would conclude from these numbers that that illegal aliens who've been incarcerated are half as likely to be arrested again as compared to the average incarcerated criminal.

 

Thanks for clearing this up, Sheaf Stout. Note to self: In the future, at least when I'm around, get your statistics from an original, not laundered, source.

Edited February 19, 2007 by tvashtarkatena

[G-spotter]

You know what's funny,

 

Sheaf Stout was Derek Hersey's favourite beer

Derek Hersey was an illegal immigrant - moved over from Britain to Colorado with no green card, lived in Boulder, worked, never got a US drivers license. Shocking innit?

[Clavote]

I'm reminded of a three day trip I made out to Brewster, Washington, for some traffic free cycling.

 

Brewster is a small ag town on the Columbia, so it's no surprise that most of the population is hispanic. The stereotypes are all there: the starch white shirts, perfectly white teeth, polished boots and belt buckles, crisp new Resistols, ready smiles. We cycled into town nervously, feeling at any moment that a gang of these overly polite threats to national security might screetch their F150 with the Virgin de Guadalupe sticker to a hault, drag us into their brightly painted, overcrowded house, and force feed us homemade tamales until we choked to death.

 

What a frightening contrast to the minority white population, which consisted of gender questionable meth heads with more than a few ready "FUs" available for anyone who dared to glance at their drunk driver smashed picket fence dentition for longer than a psychzoids microsecond.

 

Build the fence! Protect our white trash from the Invasion of the Mole Hordes!

 

I'm getting a Bhrama Bull sticker on the door of my volvo.

It will go good with my wranglers and big belt buckle.

 

Yeah baby!

[Clavote]

You know what's funny,

 

Sheaf Stout was Derek Hersey's favourite beer

Derek Hersey was an illegal immigrant - moved over from Britain to Colorado with no green card, lived in Boulder, worked, never got a US drivers license. Shocking innit?

 

Hey, that guy didn't "look" like an illegal alien.

 

[G-spotter]

He had British teeth

Those "look" alien alright!

[tvashtarkatena]

I'm getting a Bhrama Bull sticker on the door of my volvo.

It will go good with my wranglers and big belt buckle.

 

Yeah baby!

 

La Madre de Dios, protéjanos.

[archenemy]

I just want to say that people who don't use their blinkers are not the problem.

It's the fuckers who speed up whenever I turn my goddam blinker on.

[Clavote]

Heck yeah, it's free! Someone pays $500 intro to get the credit card under the name George Washington and gives his address at some house where there are 15 illegals staying in a 2 bedroom house. Then the card holder bolts after maxing out the card at say $2000, never to be heard from again. What is B of A going to do? Mark it on his credit report? Oh wait, B of A didn't have a ss# to access the individual's credit report, or a real name, or even a birth certificate. Good luck on getting their money back. I guess they will just have to pawn off their losses onto all of their other law-abiding patrons.......

 

Yes, this is exactly what they do with any other terms and conditions abiding BofA credit card holder. They spread the pain around if somoene defaults.

 

A bank treating illegals just like legals for the purpose of making money. It's a security challenge. Next they will want a mortgage.

 

BofA knows the odds are on their side. If the majority of illegals were going to skip out on their CC debts, BofA would not get into this market segment. So illegals are mostly law abiding, debt paying, help an old woman across the street, types. Who, are here illegally because of their corrupt goverment and social system...where they probably could not get a credit card, let alone a job or mortgage.

 

I would not be surprised if this illegal credit card market segment paid more interest than the legal market segment and had a lower default rate. BofA has enough information on a customer base and market to reduce it's risk. I bet the same statistical tools they use to view a legal market apply to an illegal market.

Hmmmmmm...it's a money making conspiracy!

 

BofA is not a charity and they would not make a stupid busines decision. Fact is, they recognize the need and provide a product that meets the need and makes profit for it's shareholders.

He he. Money.

 

There is a market there. These people and their dollars are not going to dissapear overnight or any time soon.

 

Get a piece of the action.

 

Resistance if futile. Capitalism will rule the universe.

 

[joblo7]

illegal immigration is a business like illegal pot smoking. legalize it.you would stop attracting only the desparate, destitute. criminalization is not the answer. decency is. racism is not an answer, compassion is.

[sheaf_stout]

Add your outrage. Screen anyone coming across the border for immigration. Build a wall and keep out the Mexican Troops which often aide drug smuggling cartels from Mexico and Afghanistan bringing in heroin and marijauna. You can cry racism all you want. This isn't racism. Get a grip on reality.

 

http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals

 

there are approximately 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States.

 

Trashman, tell these victims about your numbers game. I'm sure they really care.

[sheaf_stout]

I just want to say that people who don't use their blinkers are not the problem.

It's the fuckers who speed up whenever I turn my goddam blinker on.

 

And that relates to the topic how? Coming from a Canadian lout who has never seen anything real in the world besides some drainage you hiked up or some glacier you crossed I can't really consider your policital opinions as well regarded.

[KaskadskyjKozak]

illegal immigration is a business like illegal pot smoking. legalize it.you would stop attracting only the desparate, destitute. criminalization is not the answer. decency is. racism is not an answer, compassion is.

 

STFU

 

[Dechristo]

I just want to say that people who don't use their blinkers are not the problem.

It's the fuckers who speed up whenever I turn my goddam blinker on.

 

And that relates to the topic how? Coming from a Canadian lout who has never seen anything real in the world besides some drainage you hiked up or some glacier you crossed I can't really consider your policital opinions as well regarded.

 

OMFG!!!

[archenemy]

I just want to say that people who don't use their blinkers are not the problem.

It's the fuckers who speed up whenever I turn my goddam blinker on.

 

And that relates to the topic how? Coming from a Canadian lout who has never seen anything real in the world besides some drainage you hiked up or some glacier you crossed I can't really consider your policital opinions as well regarded.

Yeah, but I'm an ILLEGAL Canadian!!!

[tvashtarkatena]

Canada's not part of the real world?

 

 

 

 

Cooooool....

[tvashtarkatena]

Add your outrage. Screen anyone coming across the border for immigration. Build a wall and keep out the Mexican Troops which often aide drug smuggling cartels from Mexico and Afghanistan bringing in heroin and marijauna. You can cry racism all you want. This isn't racism. Get a grip on reality.

 

http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals

 

there are approximately 240,000 illegal immigrant sex offenders in the United States.

 

Trashman, tell these victims about your numbers game. I'm sure they really care.

 

After that chain saw raping I just gave you, try telling those on this forum that your latest fantasy statistic has anything to do with the 'real world'.

Edited February 20, 2007 by tvashtarkatena