Micro cams - BD v. Metolius v. CCH

[EV]

I'm getting ready to invest in either of the above three mentioned micro cams. I do not do any aid climbing.

The Metolius I would be looking at would be the TCUs. My cams from .5 to 3.5 are BDs. I like the Aliens because of the flexible stems.

Any beta would be helpful.

Thanks.

[specialed]

Rock Empire Rock & Roll, only 26.95 each.

[Cpt.Caveman]

The aliens are the best when it comes to the small boys if you ask me. The triggers are awesome and they fit in smaller cracks better than Metolius or BD most times I have found.

BD I don't own or plan on owning them because I think the triggers suck and I don't like the way they feel. Meaning they seem like they could be harder to place when pumped because of the stem where your thumb is placed could slip more easily than an Alien.

Metolius is my second choice and a great brand. The only reason I would not buy any more is simply that I like the Aliens better. Although I do have some of these trusty guys. If you get these I say go with the 3 cams not 4 as they seem to rotate when climbin above them instead of walking further into the cracks.

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 07-11-2001).]

[forrest_m]

aliens! aliens! aliens!

[Paul_C]

I would say Aliens first and then Metolius. I don't really like the BD triggers either, but if you are comfortable with them then they may be your best bet.

[specialed]

BD's have a significantly wider range than Metolios or Aliens though. This is nice, espescially in cracks finger size and smaller since a couple millimeters of range can make a big difference.

[Lambone]

I use to be sold on TCU's, but after using aliens, and BD's I have found that they fit flaring placements much better. The Camolots fill out flares really nicely. Alien's as well, but aliens tend to pick up dirt and grime and become sticky easily.

[specialed]

They've got Alien offsets now too for flares , but for mostly free climbing why worry about it? unless you climb on funky, hard-to-protect rock.

[verticalturtle]

Something to consider...when placed in a shallow vertical orientation how flexable is that super stiff U cable body on the TCUs

Answer=not very.

Sizes are compatable on aliens vs. TCUs but this point and the idea that it's real hard to trigger TCUs w/ gloves sells me on aliens.

And yes I have talked to folks in different areas reporting TCUs to pop in this type of placement. Granted it isn't always like this but I find alot of difficult thin cracks are not very deep; re you can't always get the good downward angle. Aliens bend...nuff said.

[Matt_Anderson]

I use and own both the aliens (a complet set up to large fingers) and Metolius (only a couple, but I've used friend's units alot). I have not yet used the Black Diamonds.

The Alien's definitely place better than almost anything else in the small sizes. I love 'em. The downside to the aliens is that, at least in part because of the flexible stem, they seem to show the wear more than the metolius cams. They also seem to need more cleaning/lubing to keep working smoothly. Even with maintenance, the aliens have lost some of the smooth action they started out with. That said, I have used them for about eight years, I fall on my gear most times I go out, and I have yet to retire one.

The Metolius tcu's are bomber. My one gripe with Metolius is that, although I don't know what the numbers are, in real world terms, they seem to have less of an expansion range. This seems more noticeable in the larger cams, than the smaller cams.

Despite the single stem, it doesn't seem like the Black Diamond's would offer the great placement that the aliens do (In large part because their stem isn't very flexible.). That said, I can't wait to get the two mircro camalot's with double axles.

If my rack was stolen and I was buying only one set, I'd buy Aliens, maybe with double Axled Camalot's replacuing the larger one's (The fantastic "placeability" of the aliens is most pronounced in the smaller sizes). If I was getting doubles, I'd get a full set of aliens for the first set. The second set would include the double cammed BD's for the larger units. It's a tough call for the smaller cams of the second set. It's hard to go wrong. I do know that I own two O aliens (the blue one's) and often place both of them on a single pitch. I'd be lost without two blue aliens.

Matt

[fredrogers]

Here's my $0.02:

I have Camlots. Love them. Thought the micro-cams would be great. Have seriously wedged the .2 and .3 on a couple of occasions and nearly lost them. The .04 has not showed similar proneness to becoming booty. The .5 and .75 BD cams are my favorite multi-purpose pieces.

I's stick to Metolious cams or aliens for the real small stuff.

[Dru]

Aliens are easier to get stuck and harder to clean when stuck, than Metolius. Also need cleaning more often. But more versatile. Your call.

[hakioawa]

Ive got a set of Camalots and Aliens.

I'd go for double axle Camalots and aliens for the smaller sizes.

One thing I've noticed and perhaps its just me, but it seems like evert stuck cam I've come across is a Metolius. Any one else seen this?

[slaphappy]

CCH ALIENS rock! (all sizes) Full set of BD's. (down to .5, no micros) Metolious 0 and 00. (various duplicates, good to leave in a pinch)

[Peter_Puget]

I have several old ALiens (very old) and have HARDLY ever used them. Now that I am getting back into climbing and reading how great every one seems to think Aliens are are, I searched thru my garage and found them. To my dismay they all seemed worn in the following manner: The cables were about to break and the mesh trigger sleeves were damaged. These units were made before the nylon sleeve was added and the springs were made to fit inside the cams. Since I know I hardly ever used these guys I am wondering if the new ones have the same wear problems. I have some TCUs made by Byrne when he was at Metolius and they are still very usable. So disparity in wear would be a big factor in deciding which cams I'd buy.

[rr666]

 

Anybody ever actually use the Rock Empire Rock & Roll? Is their quality as low as their price?

Otherwise, I vote for Metolius TCU's up to #4. Smooth, tough, easy to use. Never used aliens. I also have BD's, but I like others, dont like their triggers

[forrest_m]

Peter P - I have some of your kind of aliens (retired) a set of new-style. To answer your questions: the new nylon sleeve really does seem to protect the trigger cables (I assume when you say "cables about to break" you're referring to the trigger cables and not the main stem...), I think what happens is that since the trigger cables are so close to the stem, they get rubbed against the rock a lot (compared to the "outrigger" trigger cables on most cams), and therefore the nylon sleeve helps out a lot. The springs that fit inside the cams are half the reason to have aliens - it's the feature that makes them fit into smaller placements. So I'd say, yeah, the new ones are a huge improvement. Before I became an alien convert, I had managed to acquire a double set of metolius small cams, but now they are strictly for multiples - I'll always grab the Alien first...

[specialed]

I've got a couple Rock Empire's. I admit I haven't fallen on them but as far as I can tell they work fine. They modeled after Wired Bliss cams and to me seem to be comparable. Rock & Ice's recent cam review said pretty much the same thing: they're legit and a good value.

[Cpt.Caveman]

EV,

If you are about to start a rack here is my advice.

I have a set of Camalots == Heavy as fuck for alpine and when needing multiples. But have great range. Bottom line I won't buy any more of them again.

I have TCUs and FCUs by Metolious == Great stuff and lightweight. Good for doubling up on too.

Aliens == well you saw what I posted above...

Friends == Good stuff but dont use them a lot...

I recently used some of the new DMM cams and they are super sweeto!! I cannot rave about them enough actually. The triggers have super action and Super lightweight. Great for doubling up on pieces and great for alpine. This would be my choice if I were to buy a new set of cams, except when getting the small stuff. Check them out yerself:

http://www.promountainsports.com/hardware-cams.shtml#cams-dmm

[Paul_C]

I think for once I have to agree with the Capt'n. DMM cams are sweet!!! Have a set of 4CU and 3CU with metolius for the small size. Just great, light weight and good value for money, the only issue that I had with them is that the trigger bar can slid down the trigger wires towards the cam making it a pain in the ass to drop gear in quick if it happens to the piece that you need right now.

Now to get around that I just put a little bit of tape aroung the bar to stop it sliding towards the cams and presto, all fixed.

DMM gear rocks. I don't really go shopping with the idea of getting DMM exclusivly, but some how end up with more DMM gear than any other.

Paul

[TimL]

Metloius, Aliens & BD cams seem to all work really well. I think its a matter of personal preference. With so many good brands out there, it is hard to go wrong. The only brand that I have grown to dislike are Trango cams. They seem to get stuck any and everywhere.

[willstrickland]

Aliens, for all the above reasons and you never know when your interests will change.

Once upon a time I thought I'd never be climbing trad routes, then I thought I'd never be aiding, then never alpine...I've gone on to enjoy all of them and aliens are the best small aid cams out there period. Single stem units allow a greater variety of placements, and the flexy stems on aliens will not kink over an edge as easily as any other cams.

There is a drawback to the flexy stems though and it's this: If you ever place pieces by just ramming them in the crack (oooh, that hurts just thinking about it) which you will if you're pumped enough and can't get the trigger first try, the flex sometimes gets in the way. I place alot of TCUs without ever touching the trigger bar, primarily when the placement is ideal, the placement is a long reach, or I'm placing from a strenuous spot. I've had aliens really piss me off in these situations, but I wouldn't trade them for anything.

Best thing to do is just find a buddy or two who have both kinds and go climb some routes with their racks, after several pitches you'll know what you want.

FWIW,

WS

[Cpt.Caveman]

They were working on that at Area 51 in NV when I lived there a few years back. It took them 2 years to fix my clibmin' partner He is the master at finger cracks and you can see why for yerself...

[This message has been edited by Cpt.Caveman (edited 07-12-2001).]

[Gerg]

I'm a big fan of the 00 Metolius.

I prefer the Metolius TCUs over Aliens. The fit my hands a little better. As far as placements go, both have worked fine for me in most situations.

The BD micro-camalots are a little heavier, if I recall correctly. They have a little bit broader range for a particular size. Have not had any problems with the BD cams. Like their trigger design the best, as it does fit my hands the best. Do not like the trigger wires and how easily they get mucked up.

G

[Peter_Puget]

How easy is it to repair an Alien?