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KaskadskyjKozak

All Religions are not Equal

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Would anyone care to try to prove that God exists?

 

Like to see you prove he doesn't.

 

can't prove a negative.

 

Both are a priori assumptions. You either choose to believe or choose not to believe. Neither can be proven or disproven, and their is no more support for one than the other.

 

The big question is, are we comfortable with the choice we've made even though it's undefendable/unprovable?

It comes to mind that a person is maybe not so comfortable with their choice when they feel they must defend it rather than simply discuss it. I have nothing to back that up with, just gut reaction.

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eric b-- our society is far more skewed towards religion than it is for the athiests. evolutions is not a theory, it belongs in a science class, creationism belongs in a social studies class. teach it there, i don't care but don't teach my child religion in science class. please. in my son's grade school, there was once a reading of the story of jesus's birth and another christmas related story the next year. gee--way to keep that religion out of the classroom. there wasn't a story about hannukah or ramadan or shiva. just jesus.

 

my son has been told on several occasions that his mom is going to hel b/c we don't go to church. gee thanks. 'preciate that nice warm fuzzy bit of christianity.

 

I knew this was coming back to the evolution debate again. Once again Evolution is a Theory. It takes just as much faith to beleive in evolution. So please don't try to teach my son something that is your religion (evoluction). You want to beleive you came from nothing fine, but don't shove that crap down my or my sons throat. I personally beleive they should leave eloution and creation out of classroom and teach science. There is plently to learn about the elements and how they work, that everyone can agree on. Science can move forward.

 

 

so are you saying evolution is bunk on all levels?

 

 

 

FUCK JESUS , FUCK GOD STRIKE ME DOWN PLEASE SO I DON'T HAVE TO SHARE A PLANET WITH SEAHAWKS ANYMORE.

 

anyone who would take on the user name of a nfl team is cheddar in my book anyway.

 

LOL nice post. Not sure what your doing with your post. Being funny, Being an ass, or just an angry person. Three way I could go.

 

1. Evolution I beleive in micro not macro. But see your willing to hate me over this I think.

2. Maybe angry with God for somereason? Maybe being funny? who knows?

3. Seahawk name. Hell this coming from someone with "pink" and a "666" LOL okay you must be taking the humor route.

 

seahawks, i am definitely an ass, but i save it for dumb shit's like yourself. i am not angry but making decisions on informartion given.

 

anyway if god made you then who the fuck made god. tell me, who made god and why did he make you so dumb.

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Kevbone you may not beleive in God but if he does exist I wouldn't mock him or God might decide to prove to you he does exist!! LOL

 

As a good christian, Seahawks, what is your position on free will/predestination the action of God?

 

I've always thought that for the god you believe in to have meaning he can't take action in this world.

 

Didn't understand the second part (meaning). Willing to answer what I think. May not be the answer though as I've never met God.

 

Free will/Predestination - alot arguments about this stuff, I do not claim to have the answers. I think you have been given totaly free will, God didn't want robots. What good was a creation if we all were robots. I think the predesination part comes in becuase God knows what decision you will make before you make them.

 

Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up.

 

Flame away. Just my thoughts and not preaching.

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On a completely different note going back to a comment of KK's

 

Why in the world do people seem to latch on to either/or propositions and insist on seeing dichotomies where non exists?

 

Evolution is not inconsistant with the Bible. Neither is the big bang theory for that matter.

 

And why o why do people insist on reading portions of the bible literaly, and other portions allegorically? The whole thing was written by people. People who are inherently fallible and attempting to explain a belief system and series of stories and legends that they were (and still are) incabable of grasping. grrrrrr I hate that!!:anger:

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That's an interesting take, Steve (d'you mind if DFA calls you "Steve?" Good.).

 

The good Doctor has found far more fulfillment and personal growth in the martial arts than through religion, a good deal of which had to do with gaining a lot of self-confidence and security that never did seem to manifest through prayer or whatever.

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if their is a god, he sure in the fuck doesn't want the seahawks to win a super bowl.

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Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up.

 

Flame away. Just my thoughts and not preaching.

 

Okay well here's a serious question: what we have been told about God: He is perfect, infallible, etc...seems to me to contradict his creation of 'himself in his own image'- man is obviously not perfect, and his own creation is killing one another endlessly, oftentimes in His name. So how can a "perfect" creator create such an imperfect being? The answer I always get when asking this of believers is something like "we can't suppose to know the intentions of our creator" which to me is purely evasive an indicative that the respondant either doesn't know, or has never wanted to know.

 

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It comes to mind that a person is maybe not so comfortable with their choice when they feel they must defend it rather than simply discuss it. I have nothing to back that up with, just gut reaction.

 

That's just it. If your completely comfortable with your belief and the fact that it is baseless then there is no need to become defensive or aggressive about it.

 

I've always thought that people get defensive when asked to prove or support their belief, when they don't understand that it's based on faith and nothing more (or less for that matter). It's possible to progressively back yourself (or someone else) into a corner, where seemingly everything that supports your belief has been stripped away except faith and choice. It scares the hell out of people who haven't come to terms with it, as it appears that their belief system has just crumbled, and they fight tooth and nail for that not to happen.

 

But in reality it's that leap of faith to believe in something (or the leap of faith to believe in nothing for atheists) which makes that belief simple, beautiful and powerful.

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eric b-- our society is far more skewed towards religion than it is for the athiests. evolutions is not a theory, it belongs in a science class, creationism belongs in a social studies class. teach it there, i don't care but don't teach my child religion in science class. please. in my son's grade school, there was once a reading of the story of jesus's birth and another christmas related story the next year. gee--way to keep that religion out of the classroom. there wasn't a story about hannukah or ramadan or shiva. just jesus.

 

my son has been told on several occasions that his mom is going to hel b/c we don't go to church. gee thanks. 'preciate that nice warm fuzzy bit of christianity.

 

I knew this was coming back to the evolution debate again. Once again Evolution is a Theory. It takes just as much faith to beleive in evolution. So please don't try to teach my son something that is your religion (evoluction). You want to beleive you came from nothing fine, but don't shove that crap down my or my sons throat. I personally beleive they should leave eloution and creation out of classroom and teach science. There is plently to learn about the elements and how they work, that everyone can agree on. Science can move forward.

 

 

so are you saying evolution is bunk on all levels?

 

 

 

FUCK JESUS , FUCK GOD STRIKE ME DOWN PLEASE SO I DON'T HAVE TO SHARE A PLANET WITH SEAHAWKS ANYMORE.

 

anyone who would take on the user name of a nfl team is cheddar in my book anyway.

 

LOL nice post. Not sure what your doing with your post. Being funny, Being an ass, or just an angry person. Three way I could go.

 

1. Evolution I beleive in micro not macro. But see your willing to hate me over this I think.

2. Maybe angry with God for somereason? Maybe being funny? who knows?

3. Seahawk name. Hell this coming from someone with "pink" and a "666" LOL okay you must be taking the humor route.

 

seahawks, i am definitely an ass, but i save it for dumb shit's like yourself. i am not angry but making decisions on informartion given.

 

anyway if god made you then who the fuck made god. tell me, who made god and why did he make you so dumb.

 

Maybe just maybe Pink God comes from a place where there is no time. Just becuase this universe had a beginning and everything around us has a time, doesn't meen there not another place with out a start. Something will be mysterious until you die.

Dumb?? shit look at every living thing. Not even the highest super computer in the world can even figure out a rats brain. Oh wait they just mapped it.

 

it comes down to belief. choice or not. Hope your right for you not for me.

 

if you find a watch in a field would you say it just appeared? Or someone made it? You see what around you, choice.

 

But since I choice to beleive you want to call me a clown. Go fuck yourself with Hitler.

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Kevbone you may not beleive in God but if he does exist I wouldn't mock him or God might decide to prove to you he does exist!! LOL

 

As a good christian, Seahawks, what is your position on free will/predestination the action of God?

 

I've always thought that for the god you believe in to have meaning he can't take action in this world.

 

Didn't understand the second part (meaning). Willing to answer what I think. May not be the answer though as I've never met God.

 

Free will/Predestination - alot arguments about this stuff, I do not claim to have the answers. I think you have been given totaly free will, God didn't want robots. What good was a creation if we all were robots. I think the predesination part comes in becuase God knows what decision you will make before you make them.

 

Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up.

 

Flame away. Just my thoughts and not preaching.

I love these discussions. I often find myself ending up with the ancient Jewish belief that God is simply beyond our understanding. God is so outside of our understanding that it is even limited to put a name on God. To think that we could fathom what God wants, means, is, creates, knows is beyond us. Doesn't answer any questions, but frankly I am ok with that. I still enjoy the mental exercize and the spiritual exploration of the discussion.

 

Funny enough, I am on my way for my weekly appointment with a "spiritual guidence counselor" of sorts. She believes in meditation, aligning dimensions, asking the gods for help, etc.

Although this isn't necessarily my school of thought, I figure, what can it hurt? It is not a decision made out of fear, although I readily agree that I may be totally wrong in my own beliefs, but out of curiousity and possibility.

Well, I'm off. Wish me good space travel or whatever the hell it is I am doing. :wave:

 

Oh, and don't start any crusades or anything while I'm gone. I don't want to miss anything :P

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Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up.

 

Flame away. Just my thoughts and not preaching.

 

Okay well here's a serious question: what we have been told about God: He is perfect, infallible, etc...seems to me to contradict his creation of 'himself in his own image'- man is obviously not perfect, and his own creation is killing one another endlessly, oftentimes in His name. So how can a "perfect" creator create such an imperfect being? The answer I always get when asking this of believers is something like "we can't suppose to know the intentions of our creator" which to me is purely evasive an indicative that the respondant either doesn't know, or has never wanted to know.

 

Good question. Here what I think. God did create everything perfect. He created Satan the top angle to top of his creation. But wait, there was one thing left. He created man. A poor pitiful creature. But God decides to make man in Gods image. (whatever that is). This pisses the hell out of Satan who becomes very jealous as he was the top dog and now this crap human that has no power is better. Thus the Devil fall and his drive to destroy humans.. Don't think it was Gods plan but he gave free will to all things he created.

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Funny enough, I am on my way for my weekly appointment with a "spiritual guidence counselor" of sorts. She believes in meditation, aligning dimensions, asking the gods for help, etc.

Although this isn't necessarily my school of thought, I figure, what can it hurt? It is not a decision made out of fear, although I readily agree that I may be totally wrong in my own beliefs, but out of curiousity and possibility.

Well, I'm off. Wish me good space travel or whatever the hell it is I am doing.

 

 

TMI

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I think you have been given totaly free will, God didn't want robots. What good was a creation if we all were robots. I think the predesination part comes in becuase God knows what decision you will make before you make them.

 

if god "knows what decision you will make before you make them", this certainly implies that your future is already going to turn out in only one way, the way that god knows it will turn out. perhaps He (is god masculine?) only knows what you will decide 20 minutes in advance, or are you implying he knows a complete lifetime, or even Multiple lifetimes in advance? (Did you know reincarnation was taught in the christian religion at one time? a standard doctrine, actually.)

 

Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up.

 

but according to you, god already knows whether or not we will "wake up".

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Kevbone you may not beleive in God but if he does exist I wouldn't mock him or God might decide to prove to you he does exist!! LOL

 

As a good christian, Seahawks, what is your position on free will/predestination the action of God?

 

I've always thought that for the god you believe in to have meaning he can't take action in this world.

 

Didn't understand the second part (meaning). Willing to answer what I think. May not be the answer though as I've never met God.

 

Free will/Predestination - alot arguments about this stuff, I do not claim to have the answers. I think you have been given totaly free will, God didn't want robots. What good was a creation if we all were robots. I think the predesination part comes in becuase God knows what decision you will make before you make them.

 

Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up.

 

Flame away. Just my thoughts and not preaching.

 

No flaming at all.

 

My thought has always been that if we have free will, the predestination falls apart. Nothing controls your actions, God may or may not know, but he can't/won't influence. Which is why he is secretive. To reveal himself in this world in any way would be to directly affect our choices which would destroy our free will. For God or salvation to have any value or meaning (and it they don't the whole system implodes) we have to be free to choose something else. It can only be achieved through a leap of blind faith.

 

Along the same lines, I think christianity's view the Satan is all screwed up. He can no more tempt us without tampering with free will than God can.

 

We have to have the choice to do as we please, for the choice to do as we see right to have any meaning. Why else would God have allowed Eve to eat the apple, or the snake to tempt her, or Job to disobey his will or ...........

 

Once you go down this path, the Bible becomes a work of man. Inspired by belief in God, but a work of man none the less.

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seahawks, i personally don't discount evolution or god beacase i don't have the answers and neither do you, but evolution is an everyday occurance and god well i can't say. think about the story of the tower of babble, god gave everybody different tounges so they couldn't figure it out. why don't you just live a good honest life and maybe you will be rewarded or not.the lord helps those who help themselves right. i would fuck myself but my cock isn't that long.

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Lots of stuff I struggle with, one big one for me is why God keeps himself so secretive. Then I think maybe he just can't stand the crap that is going on here and rather than destroy it all, he keep himself from it and hopes people will wake up.

 

Flame away. Just my thoughts and not preaching.

 

Okay well here's a serious question: what we have been told about God: He is perfect, infallible, etc...seems to me to contradict his creation of 'himself in his own image'- man is obviously not perfect, and his own creation is killing one another endlessly, oftentimes in His name. So how can a "perfect" creator create such an imperfect being? The answer I always get when asking this of believers is something like "we can't suppose to know the intentions of our creator" which to me is purely evasive an indicative that the respondant either doesn't know, or has never wanted to know.

OK, one last post.

When did you decide that man and this world is not perfect? When did you decide that the definition of perfect (in this context) was to disinclude war, famine, etc? Maybe this is the "perfect world" that everybody talks about. If it is possible to believe in a God no one can prove, then it is possible to believe that this world is perfect as it is.

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"we can't know his intentions" is evasive BS. If your going to apply that line of reasoning, it applies to what you believe is the right thing to do as well as the wrong.

 

My interpretation of "In his image" has always been in reference to the capacity for rational abstract thought and free will. Everything else should stem from that. Of course I'm a very bad Christian so what the hell do I know.

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Maybe this is the "perfect world" that everybody talks about. If it is possible to believe in a God no one can prove, then it is possible to believe that this world is perfect as it is.

 

Is that a question?

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But since I choice to beleive you want to call me a clown. Go fuck yourself with Hitler.

 

 

Jeez, did god know you were going to say this?

 

Yes God knew he was going to say this because God is all knowing and knows Seahawks words before they come out.

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