Lighter pack weight.

[sprocket]

Looking for recommendations for lighter gear options for carryover alpine rock climbs. I'm focusing on stuff that won't be super technical, most likely 2 days with planned bivy and will most likely look for a good weather window this summer. Am interested in packs, sleeping bags, bivy sacks, clothing optins etc. Trying to find out what is a reasonable weight to carry both on approach and once you are climbing.

 

Thanks

[fern]

Moderator note to smartasses:

 

not every thread needs to be made into a joke. This post is a reasonable topic for discussion.

[sprocket]

Moderator note to smartasses:

 

not every thread needs to be made into a joke. This post is a reasonable topic for discussion.

 

Thanks Fern, although I did find the post you removed somewhat funny and less abusive than I expected.

[Weekend_Climberz]

Guess I missed the first response.

 

Anyway, check out www.promountainsports.com, Jim has a lot of stuff on there about how most people base their lightweight system. There are many variations on what he shows, but it's a great place to start. I try to shoot for ~35 lbs with overnight gear and rack etc. Of course, once you add beer and other assorted alocholic beverages, that weight limit goes in the pooper.

[gary_hehn]

Pro Mountain Sports web site has a good page with suggestions. This could give you a reference point.

 

http://www.promountainsports.com/upk.shtml

[Aya]

Look at cilogear's new packs... some are super duper duper light... craziness...

 

www.cilogear.com

[kevbone]

Looking for recommendations for lighter gear options for carryover alpine rock climbs. I'm focusing on stuff that won't be super technical, most likely 2 days with planned bivy and will most likely look for a good weather window this summer. Am interested in packs, sleeping bags, bivy sacks, clothing optins etc. Trying to find out what is a reasonable weight to carry both on approach and once you are climbing.

 

Thanks

 

I have found the weight and space comes from Ice axe, crampons, stove and sleeping bag. 2 pound down sleeping bags are not that expensive these day, under $200 and they pack down really small. Ice axe could get spendy but you could pick up a light weight axe for under $100, the crampons get spendy if you want light. I have chosen to go with the new Air tech super light, they are more like $150 and up. Stoves, well it really depends on what kind of meal you want to eat. My stove weights less than 3 pounds with the fuel.

 

A great tip for breakfast is put granola in a zip lock and place powdered milk and dried fruit in the bag. Bring a light weight bowl and spoon which will double for other meals. Each morning pour out the granola and dried milk into bowl. All cold milk and walla you have a hearty breakfast that will last in you for most of the morning. Works like a charm.

 

Hope this helps

bone

 

[sprocket]

Pro Mountain Sports web site has a good page with suggestions. This could give you a reference point.

 

http://www.promountainsports.com/upk.shtml

 

Promountains gear list was sort of the starting point for my interest. What I'm interested in hearing from people is what their experience has been with stuff like this. 16 oz. sleeping bags, 6 oz. bivy sacks, 15 oz. GoLite packs, 10 oz. WM puffy jacket etc. Is this stuff that you have/would bring on something say like the N. or W. Ridge of Stuart in July with decent weather?

[genepires]

yup. what you mentioned sounds reasonable. If you are ok with a little suffering, the pack can be very light. And the suffering is not usually that bad when you consider how awesome the place is. The scenery overwelms any discomfort that a light pack and bivy gear will offer.

 

Just remember that the lighter the bivy gear, the less of margin for error. So bailing is a greater possibility. Small issues become very large. I think twight made a good discussion to this in his extreme alpinism book. read it.

 

 

[Dr_Flush_Amazing]

...My stove weights less than 3 pounds with the fuel.

 

Jesus. Is it made from cast iron?

 

What I'm interested in hearing from people is what their experience has been with stuff like this. 16 oz. sleeping bags, 6 oz. bivy sacks, 15 oz. GoLite packs, 10 oz. WM puffy jacket etc. Is this stuff that you have/would bring on something say like the N. or W. Ridge of Stuart in July with decent weather?

 

Absolutely. That superlight stuff is perfect for the cascades in the summertime.

I've used a 30 degree down bag (about 20oz), golite tarp (~14oz for two people, nicer than a bivy IMO), lightweight windshirt (no puffy needed in summer), jetboil stove (about 24oz w/fuel), 16oz GoLite Gust pack, and usual clothing with good success.

 

Sleeping bag and shelter (no tent!) is a good place to save weight, but for technical climbs, pay a lot of attention to your rack/rope/slings. That stuff really adds up. Consider taking a 30m thin rope (~9mm) if you are going to be mostly simul-climbing without much rappelling (a la Stuart/Forbidden/NER Triumph, etc). Buy a lot of those Mammut skinny slings and lightweight biners (<35g/biner). Consider bringing hexes or tricams instead of SLCDs if the climbing is going to be easy for you. Bring a half set of nuts (I usually bring just the odd numbers for example).

 

Don't bring a lot of extra shit either. You don't need a water filter (water bourne illnesses are very rare in the alpine areas of WA), thermarest (use the rope, your pack, etc), crazy creek chair, extra pots, extra clothes, etc. Can you climb the route in approach shoes/boots? Leave the rock shoes at home. Do you really need crampons? If so, get aluminum ones.

[kevbone]

Is this stuff that you have/would bring on something say like the N. or W. Ridge of Stuart

 

You should not be spending the night on stuart! Tent to tent or car to car if you super burly.

[Dr_Flush_Amazing]

You should not be spending the night on stuart! Tent to tent or car to car if you super burly.

 

Why not DumBone? It's a beautiful place to spend the night.

 

STFU.

[kevbone]

You should not be spending the night on stuart! Tent to tent or car to car if you super burly.

 

Why not DumBone? It's a beautiful place to spend the night.

 

STFU.

 

Why you got to be mean?

 

I have on stuart 3 times. Spent the night the first time. Fuck that. I would prefer to climb with 10 pounds of my back.

 

[Jens]

I am a complete weight freak but rucsacs are the only single item I don't pay much attention to how it much they weigh.

Hands down, probably the best ruscacs made are the Millet line of packs. I've owned two in my lifetime and for technical alpine, they leave every other company churning in their wake. Nothing comes close. Plus they are desinged by some of the best climbers in the world. Black diamond sacs have to long a torso and inhibit high steps, danas don't climb well, mountainsmith and gregory have to many straps, I could go on.....

---------

If you've been passed on an alpine route, they were wearing a Millet.

 

[Dannible]

Unless it is supposed to be really cold and rainy you can get by with just bivy sack and maybe a puffy jacket rather than a sleeping bag. Spread out your rope and pack to sleep on top of rather than a pad, and don't bring a stove unless you will need to melt water. It will be a long cold night, but you should be able to get some sleep still. If the weather turns then go sleep in your car.

[genepires]

There are several sleeping bags available that weight the same as a down jacket (like a 40 or 50 degree bag) that are a lot better to sleap in than a jacket alone. How often does one use a puffy jacket in the summer anyway? But night comes every 24 hours. A light bag sure would be nice. (in responce to dannible)

 

Also, if the weather is supposed to be cold or rainy, then a lightweight alpine trip is not the best idea unless you are training for some sick stuff.

 

I like the "If the weather turns then go sleep in your car. "!

 

Enjoy the alpine!

[gary_hehn]

I'm not big on carrying much sleeping bag as it is pretty much a single use item. So, my bag is basically just liner weight, around 10oz. My solution is to carry a pretty substantial belay jacket and some sort of insulated pant. I use these in the bag. I don't wear the jacket but, pull the sleeves inside to act as baffles and lay it over me inside the bag. This puts all its insulation over me and other than having to manage it some during the night it works very well.

[Alpaholic]

I too am a fan of the no bag, sleep in your clothes, don't bring food you need to cook so you can leave the stove at home, forget about water born illnesses and bring a light rack M.O.

 

Check out Big Agnes for a compromise between dannible and genepires. The nugget has a small ammount of insulation and it's waterproof (and really light). Doesn't zip closed at the head like many bivys but so far it's been adequate even in the rain.

 

Jens wont like me for this but the pack is where you can save a lot of weight. Most packs these days have way too many features. A simple, non padded belt and frameless pack will be adequate if you keep the load light with all the other suggestions in this thread. Shoot for a pack that is sub 35g/L.

 

And of course, you could always check out this site:

www.psychovertical.com

and read just about everything under the gear tab

[Dannible]

A couple of people have said not to treat your water, but after getting giardia this summer I think a few iodine tablets are worth the .001 grams that they weigh.

[Jens]

It is not the weight I have an issue with.

On a hard alpine route or approach, you have to be able to pound water when it shows up. More than you would care to carry.

You can't do the 30 minute wait time. Or stop for a break a few minutes later. You also ideally pound water and then don't carry any.

[Dannible]

That is true, but it is also exactly how I got giardia. Now when I want to chug lots of water I give the iodine a little less time to do it's thing and hope for the best. At the same time I don't worry about really high, isolated steams, only those that get lots of animal/people visitors. Of course, when I am super dehydrated and thinking about nothing but water, it all goes out the window.

[jerseyscum]

An extremely credible case has been made that nearly all water-borne disease contracted in the backcountry results from sharing food using filthy fingers, and not from drinking untreated water. Many people here are probably aware of this, but here is address where the poop can be found.

 

http://lomaprieta.sierraclub.org/pcs/articles/giardia.asp

[ericb]

To qualify....I'm not a minimalist per se, but like to spend money on nice light gear. Rather than make recommendations on what to or not to bring, here's some areas of opportunity that I've found.

 

Save ~ 1 lb. - Western Mountaineering Highlight Bag - 16oz and plenty warm for fair weather cascade summer.

 

Save ~ 1 lb - Montbell or equiv 7oz ultralight bivy vs. heavier 3ply bivvys (less durable and smaller)

 

Save ~ 1 lb - If you need crampons, alumimum vs. steel...fine for basic glacier travel/steep snow

 

Save ~ 1 lb - Camp XLA aluminum axe (10oz) vs. steel head....fine for basic glacier travel/steep snow

 

If you really want to cook, you can get a fuel/pot/stove for a total of one pound - MSR pocket rocket/titan kettle

 

Slings - skinny dynnema 1/4 weight and bulk of nylon.

 

Biners.....swap out the old 50g. ones with ~ 30g Trango Superflys - almost an ounce per biner will add up

 

If you want a pad....get a 3/4 length egg crate evazote pad from gossamer gear - only 7 oz, ~ 1/2 lb less than ridgerest foam

 

For a little extra warmth, Montbell Thermawrap UL coat (9oz)

Much lighter/compressible than fleece equivalent and it's synthetic.

 

Rope - you can save ~ 2# or more by replacing your 10.5mm rope with one of the new 8.9 - 9.0mm single ropes.

 

If you need a waterproof layer with you to feel good, don't haul your old heavy 3-ply Goretex with you....there are a lot of waterproof breathable shell coats now that are 1/2 the weight of the older generations.

 

 

[Ovr40]

Here are a couple of thoughts about alloy crampons and alloy head ice axes. I have both and they are perfect for snow travel.

But this weekend I was reminded of how limited these tools can be.

I was setting top ropes for ice climbing and grabbed the lightweight axe to run up a short couloir that was covered with six to twelve inches of powder snow over mixed rock and hard, thin ice. I was wearing G-14s, so was able to get secure foot placements, but the alloy ice axe (Grivel Nepal Light) was pretty useless. The pick would just bounce off the ice. The next trip up and down, with a steel headed axe, was way more secure.

So here are two conclusions:

1. It is difficult to anticipate route conditions for the entire route and alloy tools will cut the margin of safety. Carrying only the lightweight tools could leave the climber with a choice between accepting unnecessary risk and turning around, even if the tools work great for 99 percent of the route.

2. Alloy tools could force the climber to wait for rescue by his/her team in the event of a crevasse fall when steel crampons and axe would provide for a relatively easy (and much faster)self rescue. Has anyone tried climbing out with an alloy crampon and axe combo?

3. Practicing with the lightweight tools in conditions they were not designed for, and where you would not expect to use them, is important. If a climber carrys these tools, sooner or later they will encounter places where they will not be effective. It makes sense to learn their limitations without creating an epic.

 

[Ovr40]

So here are two three conclusions: