DirtyHarry Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 BTW, I was climbing steep ice when you were still peeing in your Pull-Ups. Yeah, Pope's so old he sat next to Fred Becky in first grade. Quote
Jens Posted January 8, 2007 Author Posted January 8, 2007 I knew the whole "ice climbing is aid" lame arguement would spring up. (rock climbers, have I got a ptich for you)- I don't care if you are in 5.14 fitness. I'm not talking trash or anything, I'll I'm saying is this....in 8 years, every single one of us will be climbing waterfall ice and mixed leashless. Why not do what the rest of the world is doing now? Quote
carolyn Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Why not do what the rest of the world is doing now? Why not just do what works best for YOU and leave it be? Quote
DirtyHarry Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 'cause then what would argue about on the internets? Quote
carolyn Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 'cause then what would argue about on the internets? DOH! (we need a slap yourself on the head gif) Quote
Jens Posted January 8, 2007 Author Posted January 8, 2007 Why not do what the rest of the world is doing now? Why not just do what works best for YOU and leave it be? via ferrata! Quote
Jens Posted January 8, 2007 Author Posted January 8, 2007 'cause then what would argue about on the internets? Amen eastwood! Quote
G-spotter Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 you see thgese guys climbing with leasheless tools in the alpine and they have to use umbilicals. talk about and clusterfucked. Quote
G-spotter Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 now androids... leashed when you want and if you want to go leashless just unclip best of both worlds Quote
BillA Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Are you socially retarded making comments like that? Do you, Yet-Another-Anonymous-Guy-On-The-Internet, even know the climber you are disparaging? Obviously not. I happen to know "pope" quite well and he's a well-rounded alpinist and an excellent rock climber. Obviously you don't understand his allusions. blah blah blah blah Okay "Raindawg", I'm the anonymous guy? My name is Bill Amos, I live right off of woodward and se 34th in Portland. I'll PM you my phone number if you want. Who are you? Who is "pope" for that matter? I'm still really not sure how bat hooks and ice climbing are similar, as one hole permanently alters the rock forever and the other creates a hole in frozen water that's going to fall down in a few months anyway. The mind boggles. Maybe calling you retarded was a bit harsh, but then again maybe not considering your response. Quote
Jens Posted January 8, 2007 Author Posted January 8, 2007 I didn't mean to stir up a friggin' can a worms. --- no offense to anyone but.... If you are a rock climber or mountain climber who climbs waterfall ice about once every three years, you should probably be a spectator in this thread. --- Let's all chill. Quote
pope Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 what if you drop your tools? I drop mine all the time! hahhaa! Actually, I dont anymore. The first season (getting used to them) most of the folks I climbed with dropped them from time to time-including myself. Its a rare event to see that happen now. You just learn how to be more aware, I guess. I started climbing with leashes. That lasted two years. I switched to leashless and love them. I honestly wouldnt, and havent, hesitated leading with them because they are more comfortable to me. I did, however, try using some leashes a few years ago and had a hell of a time with them. I think leashes have their place. For me, its important to switch back and forth, so when I feel I need them, Im comfortable. In regards to new folks learning leashless. Thats how I see it here in the midwest. Its actually rare to see someone with leashes on their tools, unless they are pushing their leading level. You can always carry a third tool if youre worried about dropping them. One thing I notice when tr'ing harder routes is that I often hang more than I would if I have leashes. Mostly, because Im so pumped and dont want to drop them or have them 5+ feet above me. Unplanned falls suck! In a sense I guess leashes would be considered aid,because they might be the only thing keeping you from falling - but thats an old debate. Just fricken climb with whatever works best for you. And Pope - I just watched an entire climb fall today, approx 30 min after climbing 10 feet from it. The last thing I am worried about while ice climbing is getting hit by a dropped tool. Random ice chunks are far more frequent. I watched Narada Falls collapse on New Years Day, 1990, about an hour after we climbed it. Terrifying! I've always believed in keeping things clipped in, especially things you can't get by without having. Whether you use a leash or some kind of keeper sling, it seems important to not lose your tool. Same thing with a wall hammer, which I keep attached to a sling around my shoulder when nailing. I really like leashes on ice tools. When I started, we didn't have screws with large, ratcheting hangers. You couldn't place a screw with one free hand. The technique was kind of cool: from one well-place tool, you would shove your arm through the leash all the way to the elbow, then you could hold the ice screw like a nail while giving a few taps to start it. Then you would stick the other tool's pick through the screw's hanger and turn the tool like a huge wrench. The technique of hanging off an elbow hooked through a leash is still useful for freeing up your hands when you'r trying to thread a runner behind a large drip, or when you want to take a photograph in the middle of a pitch. But I suppose that means you wouldn't be "free climbing". Quote
TobinJourdan Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Pope- You are a clown azz dude. Wise up. I guess the list of people you are too high and noble to belay might include the likes of Steve House, Vince Anderson, Marko Prezl (sp), the late JC Lafaille and Hari Berger, Scott Decapio, Will Gadd, Raph...and on and on... Your probably so hard that you like those cold fingers though. Climb with leashes, climb while I was breast feeding, i dont particularly care what your "street cred" is. To make blanket statements like that make you sound like your str8 out of Iowa with your alpinism (no offense to Iowa as an alpine bastion). Edited January 8, 2007 by TobinJourdan Quote
pope Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 I'm still really not sure how bat hooks and ice climbing are similar, as one hole permanently alters the rock forever and the other creates a hole in frozen water that's going to fall down in a few months anyway. The mind boggles. Maybe calling you retarded was a bit harsh, but then again maybe not considering your response. You're right about THAT difference. But otherwise they're very similar (see my post above). They're both forms of aid because both involve changing the medium and then applying some mechanical device for gaining purchase. Quote
pope Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Pope- You are a clown azz dude. Wise up. I guess the list of people you are too high and noble to belay might include the likes of Steve House, Vince Anderson, Marko Prezl (sp), the late JC Lafaille and Hari Berger, Scott Decapio, Will Gadd, Raph...and on and on... Your probably so hard that you like those cold fingers though. Climb with leashes, climb while I was breast feeding, i dont particularly care what your "street cred" is. To make blanket statements like that make you sound like your str8 out of Iowa with your alpinism (no offense to Iowa as an alpine bastion). Name dropper. "Leashless" is a fad, like tatoos and nose rings. I find it interesting that guys in the "leashless" camp will argue that using leashes is aid, and in the same breath, they'll tell you that "leashless" makes difficult pitches easier. Folks, the fact that you're grabbing an ice tool means you're aid climbing. Period. You wanna go leashless? Go ahead. Please just announce this to everybody below you, something like, "I've got this sharp, heavy thing here and if I drop it, your helmet will be useless." Quote
TobinJourdan Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) Maybe we should ask the Scots, or even our own Henry Barber whether leashes are a fad? Or possibly ask the Hindus if nose rings are a fad. Your crotchety azz should recognize leashes are the fad. Who has said what is "aid" here? If you want to discuss fads in the modern ice game beat the "bareback" horse you brokeback. I really have to like you to even yell "ICE"...seems to be an inherent objective hazard of the game. Stay on the porch, or join me on the sofa. Edited January 8, 2007 by TobinJourdan Quote
layton Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 DeCapio's a p-whipped married man, you can't name drop scott anymore Quote
Cobra_Commander Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 "So Kevin tells me yesterday to "stop calling me bitch!" but then I'm all like BRRRRRRIINNGGGG! Whoops, I did it again!" Quote
TobinJourdan Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 (edited) I met you with Scotty at a gym in Portland, Mike (Tobin's not my real name)...maybe three years ago, your first year of chiropractor school I showed you my foot, and you told me about draggin yourself to your car bloodied in Vegas. Look for Scotty to make a comeback tour w/ Junior this Spring. Edited January 8, 2007 by TobinJourdan Quote
Jens Posted January 8, 2007 Author Posted January 8, 2007 Ice climbing and mixed is not aid. (the world has heard all the arguments on this already). I would agree that the climbing world has certainly seen it's fair share of fads, but I can assure you that the world stage will not return to leashes. -------------- Just a gentle reminder to see above on who should respectfully sit this thread out. Quote
pope Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 Who has said what is "aid" here? Let me ask you this: suppose you climbed an C1 pitch without using etriers, but instead, you just clipped some big handles (the kind you might find on a hack saw) to the little brass nuts and micro cams. Would it still be aid climbing? Of course it would. But that is the essence of ice climbing. You have some mechanical device that gives you purchase and these devices have handles. That's aid climbing, with or without leashes. Stay on the porch, or join me on the sofa. Wrong forum, pal. Quote
TobinJourdan Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 What about drytooling the Hallucinogen Wall in the Black Canyon... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL What if you climb an A5 pitch with a crashpad? Or WI3 with only one crampon What about M9 with rock shoes on? How about Changabang with only a T-shirt? G-IV with boots that are too small Quote
TrogdortheBurninator Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 For me personally, I am more aware/concerned about dropping a tool when unclipping leashes and placing pro than I am casually climbing with leashless tools. The probability of actually dropping either is probably pretty low. Anyhow, isn't getting shit dropped on you par for the course on ice regardless? I don't think leashes are cheating, but I do find ice climbing generally more enjoyable (and often easier) without them. I definitely don't think leashless is a fad as it seems to be part of the natural evolution of climbing equipment in an effort to climb increasingly more difficult terrain. Quote
TrogdortheBurninator Posted January 8, 2007 Posted January 8, 2007 So pope, all ice climbs are just A0 since you are inherently french freeing? Quote
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