Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • olyclimber

      WELCOME TO THE CASCADECLIMBERS.COM FORUMS   02/03/18

      We have upgraded to new forum software as of late last year, and it makes everything here so much better!  It is now much easier to do pretty much anything, including write Trip Reports, sell gear, schedule climbing related events, and more. There is a new reputation system that allows for positive contributors to be recognized,  it is possible to tag content with identifiers, drag and drop in images, and it is much easier to embed multimedia content from Youtube, Vimeo, and more.  In all, the site is much more user friendly, bug free, and feature rich!   Whether you're a new user or a grizzled cascadeclimbers.com veteran, we think you'll love the new forums. Enjoy!
Sign in to follow this  
Jens

Leashes= cheating (many say)

Recommended Posts

BTW, I was climbing steep ice when you were still peeing in your Pull-Ups.

 

Yeah, Pope's so old he sat next to Fred Becky in first grade.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I knew the whole "ice climbing is aid" lame arguement would spring up. (rock climbers, have I got a ptich for you)- I don't care if you are in 5.14 fitness.

I'm not talking trash or anything, I'll I'm saying is this....in 8 years, every single one of us will be climbing waterfall ice and mixed leashless. Why not do what the rest of the world is doing now?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why not do what the rest of the world is doing now?

 

Why not just do what works best for YOU and leave it be?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
'cause then what would argue about on the internets?

 

DOH! :/

(we need a slap yourself on the head gif)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why not do what the rest of the world is doing now?

 

Why not just do what works best for YOU and leave it be?

via ferrata!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you see thgese guys climbing with leasheless tools in the alpine and they have to use umbilicals. talk about :ghey: and clusterfucked.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you socially retarded making comments like that? Do you, Yet-Another-Anonymous-Guy-On-The-Internet, even know the climber you are disparaging? Obviously not.

I happen to know "pope" quite well and he's a well-rounded alpinist and an excellent rock climber. Obviously you don't understand his allusions. blah blah blah blah

 

Okay "Raindawg", I'm the anonymous guy? My name is Bill Amos, I live right off of woodward and se 34th in Portland. I'll PM you my phone number if you want. Who are you? Who is "pope" for that matter? I'm still really not sure how bat hooks and ice climbing are similar, as one hole permanently alters the rock forever and the other creates a hole in frozen water that's going to fall down in a few months anyway. The mind boggles. Maybe calling you retarded was a bit harsh, but then again maybe not considering your response.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't mean to stir up a friggin' can a worms.

---

no offense to anyone but....

If you are a rock climber or mountain climber who climbs waterfall ice about once every three years, you should probably be a spectator in this thread.

---

Let's all chill.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
what if you drop your tools?

 

I drop mine all the time! hahhaa! :grin:

Actually, I dont anymore. The first season (getting used to them) most of the folks I climbed with dropped them from time to time-including myself. Its a rare event to see that happen now. You just learn how to be more aware, I guess.

 

I started climbing with leashes. That lasted two years. I switched to leashless and love them. I honestly wouldnt, and havent, hesitated leading with them because they are more comfortable to me. I did, however, try using some leashes a few years ago and had a hell of a time with them. I think leashes have their place. For me, its important to switch back and forth, so when I feel I need them, Im comfortable.

 

In regards to new folks learning leashless. Thats how I see it here in the midwest. Its actually rare to see someone with leashes on their tools, unless they are pushing their leading level. You can always carry a third tool if youre worried about dropping them.

 

One thing I notice when tr'ing harder routes is that I often hang more than I would if I have leashes. Mostly, because Im so pumped and dont want to drop them or have them 5+ feet above me. Unplanned falls suck! In a sense I guess leashes would be considered aid,because they might be the only thing keeping you from falling - but thats an old debate. Just fricken climb with whatever works best for you.

 

And Pope - I just watched an entire climb fall today, approx 30 min after climbing 10 feet from it. The last thing I am worried about while ice climbing is getting hit by a dropped tool. Random ice chunks are far more frequent.

 

I watched Narada Falls collapse on New Years Day, 1990, about an hour after we climbed it. Terrifying! I've always believed in keeping things clipped in, especially things you can't get by without having. Whether you use a leash or some kind of keeper sling, it seems important to not lose your tool. Same thing with a wall hammer, which I keep attached to a sling around my shoulder when nailing. I really like leashes on ice tools. When I started, we didn't have screws with large, ratcheting hangers. You couldn't place a screw with one free hand. The technique was kind of cool: from one well-place tool, you would shove your arm through the leash all the way to the elbow, then you could hold the ice screw like a nail while giving a few taps to start it. Then you would stick the other tool's pick through the screw's hanger and turn the tool like a huge wrench.

 

The technique of hanging off an elbow hooked through a leash is still useful for freeing up your hands when you'r trying to thread a runner behind a large drip, or when you want to take a photograph in the middle of a pitch. But I suppose that means you wouldn't be "free climbing". :cry:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pope-

 

You are a clown azz dude. Wise up.

 

I guess the list of people you are too high and noble to belay might include the likes of Steve House, Vince Anderson, Marko Prezl (sp), the late JC Lafaille and Hari Berger, Scott Decapio, Will Gadd, Raph...and on and on...

 

Your probably so hard that you like those cold fingers though.

 

Climb with leashes, climb while I was breast feeding, i dont particularly care what your "street cred" is. To make blanket statements like that make you sound like your str8 out of Iowa with your alpinism (no offense to Iowa as an alpine bastion).

Edited by TobinJourdan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm still really not sure how bat hooks and ice climbing are similar, as one hole permanently alters the rock forever and the other creates a hole in frozen water that's going to fall down in a few months anyway. The mind boggles. Maybe calling you retarded was a bit harsh, but then again maybe not considering your response.

 

You're right about THAT difference. But otherwise they're very similar (see my post above). They're both forms of aid because both involve changing the medium and then applying some mechanical device for gaining purchase.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Pope-

 

You are a clown azz dude. Wise up.

 

I guess the list of people you are too high and noble to belay might include the likes of Steve House, Vince Anderson, Marko Prezl (sp), the late JC Lafaille and Hari Berger, Scott Decapio, Will Gadd, Raph...and on and on...

 

Your probably so hard that you like those cold fingers though.

 

Climb with leashes, climb while I was breast feeding, i dont particularly care what your "street cred" is. To make blanket statements like that make you sound like your str8 out of Iowa with your alpinism (no offense to Iowa as an alpine bastion).

 

Name dropper. "Leashless" is a fad, like tatoos and nose rings. I find it interesting that guys in the "leashless" camp will argue that using leashes is aid, and in the same breath, they'll tell you that "leashless" makes difficult pitches easier. Folks, the fact that you're grabbing an ice tool means you're aid climbing. Period. You wanna go leashless? Go ahead. Please just announce this to everybody below you, something like, "I've got this sharp, heavy thing here and if I drop it, your helmet will be useless."

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Maybe we should ask the Scots, or even our own Henry Barber whether leashes are a fad? Or possibly ask the Hindus if nose rings are a fad.

 

Your crotchety azz should recognize leashes are the fad.

 

Who has said what is "aid" here? If you want to discuss fads in the modern ice game beat the "bareback" horse you brokeback.

 

I really have to like you to even yell "ICE"...seems to be an inherent objective hazard of the game.

 

Stay on the porch, or join me on the sofa.

Edited by TobinJourdan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I met you with Scotty at a gym in Portland, Mike (Tobin's not my real name)...maybe three years ago, your first year of chiropractor school I showed you my foot, and you told me about draggin yourself to your car bloodied in Vegas.

 

Look for Scotty to make a comeback tour w/ Junior this Spring.

Edited by TobinJourdan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ice climbing and mixed is not aid. (the world has heard all the arguments on this already).

I would agree that the climbing world has certainly seen it's fair share of fads, but I can assure you that the world stage will not return to leashes.

--------------

Just a gentle reminder to see above on who should respectfully sit this thread out.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Who has said what is "aid" here?

Let me ask you this: suppose you climbed an C1 pitch without using etriers, but instead, you just clipped some big handles (the kind you might find on a hack saw) to the little brass nuts and micro cams. Would it still be aid climbing? Of course it would. But that is the essence of ice climbing. You have some mechanical device that gives you purchase and these devices have handles. That's aid climbing, with or without leashes.

 

Stay on the porch, or join me on the sofa.

Wrong forum, pal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about drytooling the Hallucinogen Wall in the Black Canyon...

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

 

What if you climb an A5 pitch with a crashpad?

 

Or WI3 with only one crampon

 

What about M9 with rock shoes on?

 

How about Changabang with only a T-shirt?

 

G-IV with boots that are too small

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me personally, I am more aware/concerned about dropping a tool when unclipping leashes and placing pro than I am casually climbing with leashless tools. The probability of actually dropping either is probably pretty low. Anyhow, isn't getting shit dropped on you par for the course on ice regardless?

 

I don't think leashes are cheating, but I do find ice climbing generally more enjoyable (and often easier) without them. I definitely don't think leashless is a fad as it seems to be part of the natural evolution of climbing equipment in an effort to climb increasingly more difficult terrain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×