mattp Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 So, Archy, I'm not clear here. Are you ridiculing me because I suggest that guns injure more people than they protect, or because I allude to the fact that even if you agree with this premise, the "solution" to the "problem" is not clear? Or maybe you meant something entirely different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 what about your gun....... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimZam Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Duh. It's not rifles. It's fawkin' HANDGUNS. It's those jack boot thugs, the NRA. It's some folks moronic idea that limiting hand guns is impinging on their "Rights"... "I'm sorry sir. You'll have to wait a week before I can sell you this SigSauer." :cry: Nooooooooooooooo!! Wake up. "It affords me personalpro." Do it the old fashion way. Sawed off shotgun. Turn his wannabe intruder ass into hamburger helper. Buy an Akita or two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 only the basest of human instincts drive this gun culture. nothing else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 only the basest of human instincts drive this gun culture. nothing else. Â Gun culture is as homogenous as climbing or any other culture. Not very, in other words. Some like to target shoot. It's a very zen thing, actually. Some like to hunt. Nothing better for you meat-wise than wild game. Some like finely made machines, and guns are certainly that. The list goes on and on. Â If you don't believe non-climbers should dictate what we do in our spare time, I think you'll agree that gun owners might feel the same way. And as for base instincts, well, that's the tune we all dance to, whether we admit it or not. You can't honestly say that climbing doesn't satisfy your base instincts, can you? Â Rather than a total ban on all guns, which you seem to be advocating, and which is definitely not politically feasible in this country, why not focus efforts on more specific legislative or enforcement reform that will address only those who commit violent crimes with guns? Why should we, as climbers, as citizens, be worried about anything else? Â Look, I know for some guys a gun is a penis extender, or even a fetish. But my experience tells that they are a small minority. And even if so, so what? As long as they don't pop a cap in someone elses ass, who cares? Â Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Duh. It's not rifles. It's fawkin' HANDGUNS. It's those jack boot thugs, the NRA. It's some folks moronic idea that limiting hand guns is impinging on their "Rights"... "I'm sorry sir. You'll have to wait a week before I can sell you this SigSauer." :cry: Nooooooooooooooo!! Wake up. "It affords me personalpro." Do it the old fashion way. Sawed off shotgun. Turn his wannabe intruder ass into hamburger helper. Buy an Akita or two. Â Actually, sawed off shotguns are already illegal. 18" barrel required. Penalty for violation is as severe as owning a fully automatic gun in many states. Â In Washington State there is NO waiting period for a gun purchase w/concealed weapons permit. Â A handgun is the ideal personal/home protection. The shotgun being the perfect home defense weapon is pure hooey, IMO. But you're right about the dog! Absolutely nothing beats a loyal medium-to-large sized dog for home security. Unfortunately, the bad elements of society seem fond of certain unstable breeds these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 everything is in shades. gun ownership appeals to our lowest instincts. Â sex is pretty low,then you got your dancing,climbing, b ball shades and so on. and farthest away from the lowest IS the highest. Â true progress is made one person at a time. Â i agree that there should be simple laws that cover gun ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 (edited) A handgun is the ideal personal/home protection. The shotgun being the perfect home defense weapon is pure hooey, IMO. Â Not if you live in the city. You know the physics of handgun penetration. Shoot wrong and the kid next door is dead. There is no way I would shoot a handgun in my neighborhood with all the kids around. I'd rather just take my chances with the 'intruder', come what may. Â A shotgun poses no such risks, has greater stopping power due to greate combined projectile momentum, and requires less aiming in a stressful situation. Â Dogs, of course, trump them all. Edited January 6, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 gun ownership appeals to our lowest instincts. sex is pretty low,then you got your dancing,climbing, b ball shades and so on.  Why are higher instincts somehow better than lower? I'm a big fan of lower instincts. In fact, if we all were, we might give more of a shit about this really cool blue ball we all live on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimZam Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I know they are illegal. Scenario: 2:00AM 2 intruders in home. Here comes the bum rush. All the while you're under your sheets, which by the way are full of same. SG much more effective. Very easy to miss with a hand gun under conditions one would be facing. When interogated say you shot 'em with the Mossberg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Depends on the type of shot you're using. Number 4 is supposedly the perfect home defense round, and in that case I agree. But 00 will penetrate walls just as readily as a medium caliber handgun round. There are fragmenting handgun rounds that minimize this danger. Handguns are easier to get around corners, easier to get up against a corner, and less likely to be wrested from you. They also grant you concealment if you dont want to show your hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Just make damn sure it isn't your teenage daughter (or her boyfriend), which it all too commonly is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 If you've got a round that you know won't kill the kid next door, then you've satisfied the requirement. But is this common practice or knowledge among people who have guns for home protection? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 the planet is messed up because we live like animals. roaches. Â if you have high ideals , you cant fullfil them with low instincts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairweather Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 (or her boyfriend) Â ...Never crossed my mind..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 You and me, we've got two very different ways of looking at what it means to be human. I go out in nature specifically because it appeals to by baser, lower, whatever instincts. My objective is to become just another animal out there, not some high and mighty ruler of the planet, full of my own ideals. I've got air, water, food, my five senses, my muscles, my brain. Â From that connection, I recognize that there is no isolated action in this world. Every action has an effect. That leads to more connection, and more action. You might call that ideals, whatever. I would say that it is our baser instincts that guide our higher ideals, rather than the other way around. After all, out baser instincts cannot be denied for long. It is the baser instincts that draw us to the things we truly love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZimZam Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Mr. Saturday Night's so special Got a barrel that's blue and cold It ain't good for nothin', but put a man six feet in hole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 (edited) Number 4 is supposedly the perfect home defense round, and in that case I agree. But 00 will penetrate walls just as readily as a medium caliber handgun round. Â I can't picture a gun owner who'd use 00 for home protection, unless the next door neighbor is a polar bear and they're REALLY not on very good terms. Besides, 00 is just as likely to pass through somebody as knock them down. Number 4 will deliver all of it's MV to the target. If that doesn't knock you on your ass, you don't have an ass. Edited January 6, 2007 by tvashtarkatena Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underworld Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 It's some folks moronic idea that limiting hand guns is impinging on their "Rights"... Â it's the eating away at rights... just as some think that allowing some warrantless wire tapping is a first sign of the government taking over all free speech... and taking away bigger chunks of rights. same argument, different folks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREETOAD Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 It seems to me everyone talks about having guns to defend themselves. What are they afraid of? Why is everyone so full of fear. I have nothing against guns. I have owned them in the past, enjoyed firing on a range, but never even considered while I owned them that I bought them to defend my home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvashtarkatena Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 If you don't STFU I'll rape you and your whole family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 You and me, we've got two very different ways of looking at what it means to be human. I go out in nature specifically because it appeals to by baser, lower, whatever instincts. My objective is to become just another animal out there, not some high and mighty ruler of the planet, full of my own ideals. I've got air, water, food, my five senses, my muscles, my brain. Â From that connection, I recognize that there is no isolated action in this world. Every action has an effect. That leads to more connection, and more action. You might call that ideals, whatever. I would say that it is our baser instincts that guide our higher ideals, rather than the other way around. After all, out baser instincts cannot be denied for long. It is the baser instincts that draw us to the things we truly love. i have a similar feel when i am IN nature, she's is the host ,i am her guest. however i just dont pull canon and blast a beautiful deer 'cause i get a rush.or i like IT'S meat. we are more focused on discussing city gun-life. its useless.fear is the enemy. Â Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dechristo Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 do you fear the effects of fear in the general population? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TREETOAD Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 If you don't STFU I'll rape you and your whole family. Â Oh I now I see... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joblo7 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 do you fear the effects of fear in the general population? fear is the enemy of the gun owner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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