wondering... take it easy... just a question

[MtnHigh]

Americans are over the top with protection. Insurance on every thing, lawyers, computerized maps in cars, guns in our homes, we go the doctor when we have a common cold. The American society is scared to do anything without first layering ourselves with a bunch of safety measures. Common sense and self reliance no longer prevail.

 

[ketch]

Phil, there are many things that impact your question. I am assuming that you are one of the many that are currently visiting due to the drama at My Hood.

 

Griz is exactly right about climbing with the extra gear. Here are a few thoughts that may help. It has been worth your time to carry that extra stuff in your truck as you seem to use it. I do the same. If I have to have more space on my truck I usually drop the stuff I won't need. As a climber when I am going to be where I may encounter others that need help I often carry items I would find usefull. If I won't need it stays home.

 

Lets think of a trip, If it is just me and a partner and both of us are very experienced and there will almost certainly be no one else, we adapt our gear accordingly. Especially as weight is very important and questionable value impacts decisions as to what a person carries.

 

It appears from the notes and lists and other clues that the three on Mt Hood very carefully thought out what to take and where to go. It looks to me like they did what most of use would have done. Sometimes life is a bitch. All climbers can relate to that which is why there is so positve energy from this board focused on them.

 

In the past couple days a MLU would probably not have been of use as the searchers could not have reached them anyway. Maybe now that they can it would. We just don't know.

[Phil Jones]

Nope, not a troll. Not a climber, either. That's why I'm asking the obvious questions.

 

Perhaps if MLU's were more easily available, smaller, cheaper and lighter, more lives will be saved. In the meantime, I would compare the carrying of an MLU to the wearing of a live vest when swimming in a lake. It's highly unlikely you'll need to rely on either, but if you do, you are better off having it than not.

 

I suppose there will always be those who think accidents can't happen to them.

 

 

[ClimbingPanther]

I would compare the carrying of an MLU to the wearing of a live vest when swimming in a lake. It's highly unlikely you'll need to rely on either, but if you do, you are better off having it than not. I suppose there will always be those who think accidents can't happen to them.

Not a good comparison. How many people who swam the English channel wore life vests? At higher levels of mountaineering and swimming, safety measures sometimes become optional. Plus, the life jacket will keep you afloat until you are rescued or you rescue yourself. The MLU offers no such safety net, there's too many "if's."

If you took every possible safety precaution available to climbers nowadays for every possible contingency no matter how unlikely (which is essentially what you are suggesting), you would have too much weight to climb. Everyone has to draw a line as to how much risk they want to take. Wow, what is that like the 100th time that has been said? Not trying to sound like a jerk here, just a little exasperated at your persistence in an opinion that is not espoused by actual climbers (or swimmers).

Edited December 16, 2006 by ClimbingPanther

[ZimZam]

...there are allot of non climbers here right now getting info and a little education is not a bad thing.

 

It isn't the edu. that sets me off, I'm all for it. I need to go chill...

[G-spotter]

People who wear lifejackets while swimming are the ones who can't swim.

[griz]

I suppose there will always be those who think accidents can't happen to them.

 

 

You've missed the point.

[ClimbingPanther]

messed up my first post, it's there now.

[Phil Jones]

People who wear lifejackets while swimming are the ones who can't swim.

 

Wrong! I am a former lifeguard and Water Safety Instructor who learned a long time ago that one can drown in a lake or river even if they are strong swimmers. Hypothermia, cramps, intoxication, current, etc are all factors that can cause a swimmer to disappear under the water surface. I have a 17' fishing boat and I don't step aboard it, nor do I allow my passengers aboard without wearing life preservers. I consider my life to be worth a relatively inexpensive piece of safety equipment.

 

 

[ZimZam]

People who wear lifejackets while swimming are the ones who can't swim.

...life preservers.

 

Get right Mr. WSSI. It's a personal flotation device.

[Phil Jones]

I would compare the carrying of an MLU to the wearing of a live vest when swimming in a lake. It's highly unlikely you'll need to rely on either, but if you do, you are better off having it than not. I suppose there will always be those who think accidents can't happen to them.

Not a good comparison. How many people who swam the English channel wore life vests? At higher levels of mountaineering and swimming, safety measures sometimes become optional. Plus, the life jacket will keep you afloat until you are rescued or you rescue yourself. The MLU offers no such safety net, there's too many "if's."

If you took every possible safety precaution available to climbers nowadays for every possible contingency no matter how unlikely (which is essentially what you are suggesting), you would have too much weight to climb. Everyone has to draw a line as to how much risk they want to take. Wow, what is that like the 100th time that has been said? Not trying to sound like a jerk here, just a little exasperated at your persistence in an opinion that is not espoused by actual climbers (or swimmers).

 

But, are the MLU's all that heavy and cumbersome?

Also, it's not as if these three guys were on a day hike in warm weather.

[ZimZam]

People who wear lifejackets while swimming are the ones who can't swim.

...life preservers.

 

Get right Mr. WSSI. It's a personal flotation device.

[G-spotter]

That's not wearing a lifejacket while swimming. It's wearing a lifejacket while BOATING. Try diving or doing anything but floating while wearing a lifejacket, silly. Do you wear waterwings and an inner tube too?

 

You can drown in a bathtub. Do you wear a lifejacket into the shower, just in case? Maybe some SCUBA gear too?

[Phil Jones]

People who wear lifejackets while swimming are the ones who can't swim.

...life preservers.

 

Get right Mr. WSSI. It's a personal flotation device.

 

Semantics aside, do you wear one when you swim in a lake or river?

 

 

[Phil Jones]

That's not wearing a lifejacket while swimming. It's wearing a lifejacket while BOATING. Try diving or doing anything but floating while wearing a lifejacket, silly. Do you wear waterwings and an inner tube too?

 

You can drown in a bathtub. Do you wear a lifejacket into the shower, just in case? Maybe some SCUBA gear too?

 

That's just an adolescent, ignorant response, IMO.

 

 

[G-spotter]

 

"Race ya to the deep end! Safely!"

[Phil Jones]

G-spotter, is that your ugly wife in the pool?

She may not be happy you posted her picture on the forum.

 

[Phil Jones]

Searchers are all coming back down the mountain now.

Done for the day.

 

If the climbers had an MLU, they'd probably be on their way down, too.

 

But, hey, safety equipment is for sissies, huh?

 

 

[G-spotter]

And if you had some eggs, you could have some ham and eggs, if you had some ham.

[utah]

watching the news conference? just wondering why SAR would not dig in/camp/bivy where they are on the south side. weather report looks good for tomorrow - nice warm night in a well constructed tent site/snow cave would save a bunch of redux tomorrow... thoughts?

[Frikadeller]

Searchers are all coming back down the mountain now.

Done for the day.

 

If the climbers had an MLU, they'd probably be on their way down, too.

 

But, hey, safety equipment is for sissies, huh?

 

 

Well, as I understand it, the MLU only works on the SOUTH SIDE of the mountain.. These guys where climbing the NORTH FACE, and decending on the south side....

 

So, if they are dug in on the NORTH side of the mountain, that MLU is as useful as a brick in your pack..

 

And as far as safety equipment, they are carrying that kind of stuff. Ropes, pickets, Ice axes, crampons, and screws are safety equipment that all of us climbers bring along. So, unless they are free soloing the NF of hood, in T-shirts and Jeans, I would say that they are safety sissies...

[rbw1966]

That's not wearing a lifejacket while swimming. It's wearing a lifejacket while BOATING. Try diving or doing anything but floating while wearing a lifejacket, silly. Do you wear waterwings and an inner tube too?

 

You can drown in a bathtub. Do you wear a lifejacket into the shower, just in case? Maybe some SCUBA gear too?

 

That's just an adolescent, ignorant response, IMO.

 

And in my opinion you're an asshole trying to stir people up. You introduced the analogy of climbing with an MLU and swimming with a life vest, not G spotter. He just pointed out the shortcomings of your analogy. Just out of curiousity, since your the badass lifeguard, who the hell do you know who actually swims with a life jacket on? I can see paddling/boating with one on but swimming? Give me a break.

 

As for the MLU, oftentimes extra safety equipment can lull someone into a sense of complacency, taking risks when they shouldn't. They were used mostly for body recovery around here. Cell phone coverage used to be excellent all over the mountain until the switch to digital.

 

 

[G-spotter]

 

Look at all the dangerous risk takers! No flotation devices visible!

[G-spotter]

Well, except breast implants I suppose.

[Phil Jones]

Searchers are all coming back down the mountain now.

Done for the day.

 

If the climbers had an MLU, they'd probably be on their way down, too.

 

But, hey, safety equipment is for sissies, huh?

 

 

Well, as I understand it, the MLU only works on the SOUTH SIDE of the mountain.. These guys where climbing the NORTH FACE, and decending on the south side....

 

So, if they are dug in on the NORTH side of the mountain, that MLU is as useful as a brick in your pack..

 

And as far as safety equipment, they are carrying that kind of stuff. Ropes, pickets, Ice axes, crampons, and screws are safety equipment that all of us climbers bring along. So, unless they are free soloing the NF of hood, in T-shirts and Jeans, I would say that they are safety sissies...

 

Well, finally, a logical reason to NOT carry an MLU. If what you say is true about the MLU's not working on the North Side then I can halfway understand why they wouldn't carry one. However, since they had planned to come down the South Side, it still would have been a nice thing to have, IMO.

 

I'm curious if it is true about the MLU's not working on the North Side of the mountain.

 

Can anyone else confirm that?