jfmctlaw Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Hover performance for a helo depends upon many factors. There are 2 different kinds of hover performance, the first in 'ground effect' and the second without ground effect. This difference alone is usually worth several thousand feet in altitude. If they plan on dropping SAR personnel near the summit as reported, they have already scoped out this issue. Flying in the mountains at low altitude is always tricky as airflow can be very unsmooth. News conference just went live. Joe Wampler-Hood River County Sheriff Teams advancing from both Timberline (70) and teams from North side (30). Other teams standing by. Temp at 12k is 6° Avalanche danger is extremely high. Wind is still blowing on mtn. No one ever saw climbers above timberline. Sheriff says climbers will be airlifted as soon as possible to Portland Hospital. Will winch them onboard, no need to land helo on mtn. Mtn closed for now to keep it 'clean' of anyone besides SAR and missing climbers. All teams start at about 6,000' on all sides. Movement is slow right now due to deep snow for SAR. Skiis and snowshoes are needed. SAR teams were hand picked due to skills. Paramedics and Avalanche experts on each team. Winds currently light, 20mph E. Forecast is for the winds to diminish as day goes on.
jbk Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 basically they are saying on the news conf: 1) the rescue teams started climbing at 4:00am this morning, 25 climbers heading to the summit from the south side, 30 from the northside, with additional (as I understood what he said) support teams possitioned in forward locations and at least two back up teams. 2) ETA to summit was "by midday", but depends on conditions. I suspect they will be up shortly (because they have been climbing for 5 hours). I'm sure the media will have a better wrap up posted shortly.
jfmctlaw Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Live feed here http://www.katu.com/news/live/3882262.html
wvSARclimber Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 I grew up on Cooper Spur and did SAR there for awhile. These SAR teams are as good as they come and God willing they will find them all alive. I am the safety officer for a team in WV and wish I could come back home and help you guys out. BE SAFE!!
Hoping4Today Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Not a climber - just praying for all involved, the three climbers and all SAR, from North Carolina. I have a strong feeling that today is the day!
Ruedi Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Anybody heard anything about any Cell Phone pings or contacts? This would be the first thing I would be checking is when the Mountaneers realize the weather has cleared now would be the time to turn on the previous battery saving stategy. Also are any of you SAR guys monitoring tac frequencies? This would be a help far monitoring their progress. You're right. The advance teams should be up by now figuring out how to deal with the cornices and not bringing avi's down on their other team members. God Speed!
jfmctlaw Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 2 Blackhawks and 1 Chinook are reported to be airborne now. If Jerry, Brian and Nikko can move, they should crawl out of their caves soon.
Geeyore Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 This information will be useful if/when you find yourself talking to a "those crazy climbers, using my taxpayers $$$ to get rescued . . ." sort of person. Thanks for posting that. I'd just finished reading it when someone said to me "they ought to be fined and pay the bill", to which I cited the 2003 Oregon finding that 3.8 percent of all rescues were clmbing related, just above mushroom picking at 3.3 percent. Anyway, positive vibes out to the guys and hope we hear some good news soon.
climberwanttobe Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 FYI Search team reaches 9,600 elevation this morning Six searchers have reached the 9,600 feet level on Mount Hood this morning, the highest searchers have climbed in days. The team just arrived at that elevation and will continue toward the summit, said Sgt. Gerry Tiffany, of the Hood River County sheriff's office. He said they will attempt the summit from the south side of the mountain, where compared with the north face the peak is easier to access. One of the first teams to head out about 4 a.m. is now scaling Eliot Glacier. Another team that started about 5:30 a.m. is headed to Snow Dome. Other teams will trek toward Elk Cove and Gnarl Ridge. -Noelle Crombie noellecrombie@news.oregonian.com
climberwanttobe Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Lou Ann Cameron, Kelly James’ mother, also thanked searchers for their efforts and said she felt confident her son would return home safely. “It’s my birthday and he wouldn’t miss my birthday,” she said.
Phil Jones Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 What a shame it is these experienced climbers didn't use the safer southern route and rent mountain locating units before their ascent. I hope no searcher gets injured or worse looking for them.
ivan Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 What a shame it is these experienced climbers didn't use the safer southern route and rent mountain locating units before their ascent. I hope no searcher gets injured or worse looking for them. climbers w/ experience crave more difficult routes to test themeselves against- that's not a shame, that's normal - barry bonds prefers to play ball against professionals, not kids i too hope no one is hurt looking for them - they wouldn't want that either of course
Phil Jones Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 How many search teams have had to risk their lives searching for Barry Bonds? It's also a shame the climbers didn't pay closer attention to the northwest weather forecasts.
Dechristo Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Read this whole thread and educate yourself, first, before spouting-off.
inconceivable Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Yea, just like it's a shame those 1 million westcoast residents without power didn't better prepare themselves for this windstorm, they should know better, now who's gonna pay for this weather event? Get real! d.
LHwildcats76 Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Isn't coming down from the summit on the N. side after climbing from the south just as difficult as going up the N. side? Or is the theory that dropping down even a a step vertical rock is a lot less work than climbing up? I know nothing about the ropes and equipment they use.
Alasdair Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 The search teams are made up of climbers. We are happy to go look for other climbers in trouble. Believe it or not most of us on search teams enjoy having a chance to bail out of work and go up mountains even in shitty conditions and look for people. You clearly dont understand the first thing about climbing and I dont really expect you to, however your commentary and criticism of something you clearly know nothing about is obnoxious. Navigate away from this site, and go back to sitting in front of FOX news.
Alpinfox Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 How many search teams have had to risk their lives searching for Barry Bonds? It's also a shame the climbers didn't pay closer attention to the northwest weather forecasts. Phil, As a member of a mountain rescue group, I'd like to answer your first question. SAR groups in the Pacific Northwest are pretty much 100% volunteer. We make the decision to go out and look for lost folks (only a very, very small fraction of which are climbers on technical, i.e. dangerous, terrain by the way) out of the goodness of our hearts and because many of us are climbers and would like to have folks return the favor and come help us out if we ever get into trouble. Plus, it's kinda fun to leave work and go climbing when your pager buzzes. I suppose you could say that SAR groups are "risking their lives" by searching for lost climbers, but you should know that a very different risk metric is employed during a SAR mission than when climbing. The safety of the rescuers is the #1 priority during a SAR mission. That is why the SAR groups haven't gone up into the storm on Hood earlier. One climbs much more carefully, slowly, and with more redundant safety and backup systems during a rescue than in normal climbing. All of this serves to reduce the risk to the rescuers to the greatest degree possible. Of course, not all risk can be eliminated, but rest assured that the SAR groups are well trained to keep themselves safe. For your second point: It's my understanding that these guys started their climb in good weather and with a sufficiently large weather window to complete their climb. The delay caused by an apparent injury to one of the party, combined with an earlier than expected arrival of the storm resulted in them getting stuck. Your comments are not helpful and could possibly be hurtful to some of the people emotionally involved in this rescue. If you'd like to second guess the climbers decisions, I would suggest you find another thread on this bulletin board to do so.
ivan Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 (edited) Isn't coming down from the summit on the N. side after climbing from the south just as difficult as going up the N. side? Or is the theory that dropping down even a a step vertical rock is a lot less work than climbing up? I know nothing about the ropes and equipment they use. no, the descent down the cooper spur or sunshine route on the north isn't as hard and just requires careful downclimbing (no rappeling) - there is more exposure to deadly falls on the north side though, also more avalanche potential, plus there's no immediate civilization at timberline on the north, but 2500 feet more of snowy trails to reach a parking lot edit - oops, kinda misread your question. from the summit, to drop off onto the north side isn't as hard as to climb the entire north side - no rappeling is required but you certainly must be very careful as falling there will be fatal Edited December 16, 2006 by ivan
G-spotter Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 I think LHwildcats might be wondering why the search teams are coming in from the south side instead of going up the N side. Yes, it's less work.
Elleth Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 FYI: Saturday, December 16, 2006 One search team about to scale Mount Hood summit A team of searchers is just 1,000 feet short of Mount Hood and is preparing to scale the summit and descend the north face where one stranded climber has been holed up in a snow cave for more than a week. Hood River County sheriff’s Sgt. Gerry Tiffany said the search organizers have confirmed that one team is about to scale the summit. They will then descend the north side. Tiffany did not know how many searchers are on that team. He said they are reporting difficult conditions near the peak. It is windy and cold, they said. “They are proceeding but it’s slow going at the moment,” he said. About a half-dozen teams are scaling the mountain today in search of the stranded climbers. Tiffany said two Black Hawk helicopters are also in the air, moving slowly up and down the mountain as they trace the most common climbing routes. He said they are looking for the men and assessing avalanche dangers for the searchers. A C-130 military plane equipped with heat-seeking cameras is circling the mountain at 12,000 feet, looking for signs of the lost men. -Noelle Crombie noellecrombie@news.oregonian.com
iancurtis Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 How many search teams have had to risk their lives searching for Barry Bonds? It's also a shame the climbers didn't pay closer attention to the northwest weather forecasts. It's also a shame that people with no experience or concept of climbing or alpinism come to the website after finding a link on a news site, and spout off nonsense. There are a lot of routes on Mt. Hood. Not climbing the south route does not demonstrate irresponsibility. Why didn't they just walk up Pike's Peak? Why didn't they go to their local gym? Why didn't they stay home and watch TV? They obviously paid attention to the weather forecasts, as their planned for an ascent on two clear days that would beat the weather. We don't know the full story as to why they did not make it. It appears someone may have been injured. It's shame they couldn't predict the future, either. Celebrating any feats of alpinism means accepting concomitant risks necessary to achieve them. If you are offended by people taking risks, you have a lot of websites you need to visit and post ignorant messages to. Better get going. To the three on the mountain, there's brewskis waiting down at the Mt. Hood Inn. To Crag Rats and PMR and the rest, you guys rule. Go kick some mountain ass and bring the boys back.
no-pomomma Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Thanks for keeping the information positive and informative.... would much rather get the straight scoop from climbers than from the t.v.
no-pomomma Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 Thanks for keeping the information positive and informative.... would much rather get the straight scoop from climbers than from the t.v.
Phil Jones Posted December 16, 2006 Posted December 16, 2006 In any case, I sincerely hope these three climbers are found alive and well today. I wish everyone the best of luck.
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