How do I rap fast with 4 guys and 4 ropes?

[Jens]

Could anyone give me any advice about how I would join forces with another team of two to rappell off a huge formation quickly? Let's assume it is me and a parter with two 60meter ice ropes tied together and 2 other climbers with the same setup. Let's assume we'd have stances with fixed stations. Some dude explained to me some cool tricks but I forgot them. Would it in fact be quicker to join forces and if so,....how much faster?

[layton]

Easy.

Give all the ropes to the 1st two rapellers and have them simul rap, set up anchors, and toss the ropes until they are out of ropes. 2nd set of people simul raps, and at each station, one person pulls other coils.

 

Much faster than 2 people IF you simul.

[Arc]

Yup---!

[genepires]

No expert on rapid rappeling (unless falling is a criteria) but it would seem to depend upon how many raps you had to do. The more raps to do, the less advantagous pairing up would be. It would seem the advantage is having multiple people rapping and not standing around at the same time. Here is one scenerio three rope lengths up with no simu-rapping. (I come in a t 195 lbs so simu rap is scary to me)

 

first rap is set up with two ropes normally. first rapper takes both ropes with and sets the remaining two rope lengths as single line rappels. second and third rappel normally and quickly as soon as the rope is free. last guy does first rappel normally and uses that two ropes for the rest of the raps and throws down the other two ropes. folks on bottom coil and get everythign ready while the lone guy makes his way down which shouldn't be too bad as long as the ropes don't get stuck, which they will.

 

better yet, just take your time and keep out of trouble.

[catbirdseat]

... and maybe even consider tying knots in the ends.

[genepires]

knots are good. very very good.

[crackers]

Slight variant if you don't trust the people to simul...

 

lower the first two, have them set up the next rap and rap it.

[powderhound]

If your anchors are good and the people weigh about the same and pay attention you can simul rap with someone single on each rope.

[still_climbin]

Even if ther are many raps the two-team shared method saves time by simply leap frogging the two teams. The time saved over the two teams rapping independantly is equal to one half of the administrative time taken to rig the rappels and retrieve/coil the ropes since only half the number of rappel setups are performed. Then whether you single or double rap is a second time saving choice that has no bearing on whether you pair or not. In the case where each of the two teams only have one single rope each, more time is saved if two-rope raps can be set.

[layton]

We had three teams of two all wanting to rap at the same time off the S.Howser Tower, 6 ropes total.

 

We got all 6 people off in the dark in under an hour with the above method.

[billcoe]

Good advice up there.

 

My best rap time was the 14 full length raps in 45 min off the Oasis with 2 ropes and 4 people as we were staring at the sun dropping over the edge and no one had a headlamp. Dohhh.

 

One of the group timed it. Just too damn lazy and stupid to carry headlamps and extra ropes I suppose.

 

What helped us was to strive for effecincies: no knots on the ends, everyone has a daisy and a locker (or use a sling girthed to the harness like we did. )

 

Nobody is just standing around. 1st guy zips down untangles and threads getting ready for the next rap, then IMPORTANT PART makes sure that each member gets clipped off properly as they come screaming down the lines. It's happening fast and that part is important.

 

Last person down and the best people in position (not a single person btw) pull the rope.

 

Speed and effeciancy matters. Nice you're preplanning it, 4 ropes and leapfrogging should speed it up for you.

[jhamaker]

>>My best rap time was the 14 full length raps in 45 min off the Oasis <<

 

Wow! I think my record was something like an hour and a half for 10 double rope raps, simorappelling and leapfrogging off Dreamer.

 

In situations like this, I'm a big fan of fireman's belays.

[gary_hehn]

Yikes, 14 full length raps in 45 min certainly is impressive! It seems too fast to leave much of a safety margin but, that's a call each individual must make for themselves.

 

I like to make a habit of clipping the rappel rope loosely through a biner on the front of my harness when I am at the base of a rappel. That way I can go about other tasks. In the mean time, if a rappeller runs into trouble, the rope is right with me and I don't have to scramble for it to initiate a fireman's belay.

[high_on_rock]

It is suggested that you shoulc only simul rap if both weigh about the same, which really does not matter. I often Simul rap with people near half my weight with no problem. Another trick is to put the knot on the lighter persons side of the anchor (or butterfly and biner around heavier persons rope) if you are worried that the friction is insufficient. I also always put the larger diameter rope through the rap anchors, which puts my fatter body on the thicker rope.

 

I agree with the concept of leapfrogging and simulrapping as being darn fast and efficient, but take care of the beginners.

E