tvashtarkatena Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 but hey, if you're jayb or kookookojak, you can just say "I don't believe the 600,000 figure" Maybe, but JayB's rebuttal would at least be entertaining. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I suppose our peers will decide that...or not. They probably, as I said, don't give a shit. BTW, you just earned yourself another ignore button. I thought I'd give your cracker-ass another chance, but your personality disorder gets the best of you every time. See ya. Quote
JayB Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 but hey, if you're jayb or kookookojak, you can just say "I don't believe the 600,000 figure" just like if you are a fundie you can say "I don't believe the evolution myth" Hey - it's the "I'm losing both the argument in one thread so I'll restate it somewhere else" tactic. Neat. The absolutist statements that you were spewing out before you ran away to another thread have way more in common with the "It's in the bible therefore I believe it" perspective that you are referring to than anything that I've articulated. Only people that live in some kind of a cloistered dreamworld or refuse to acknowledge the kind of moral complexity that one normally encounters in the real world, beyond the age of twelve, could possibly hang onto the kind of perspective that you bring to pretty much any political realities that get discussed here from time to time. Quote
cj001f Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 but hey, if you're jayb or kookookojak, you can just say "I don't believe the 600,000 figure" just like if you are a fundie you can say "I don't believe the evolution myth" Hey - it's the "I'm losing both the argument in one thread so I'll restate it somewhere else" tactic. Neat. The absolutist statements that you were spewing out before you ran away to another thread have way more in common with the "It's in the bible therefore I believe it" perspective that you are referring to than anything that I've articulated. Only people that live in some kind of a cloistered dreamworld or refuse to acknowledge the kind of moral complexity that one normally encounters in the real world, beyond the age of twelve, could possibly hang onto the kind of perspective that you bring to pretty much any political realities that get discussed here from time to time. Don't you have Cuban "not terrorists" to coddle? Quote
cj001f Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Pussy. I'll bite my tongue and say "what do you expect of a get out the vote minion?" Quote
Mos_Chillin Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I suppose our peers will decide that...or not. They probably, as I said, don't give a shit. BTW, you just earned yourself another ignore button. I thought I'd give your cracker-ass another chance, but your personality disorder gets the best of you every time. See ya. Join the club. Nice to know I am not the only one. Cracker-ass And in case the *ignore* feature is not reciprocated: FU H2, and Fairwether 2 Quote
Raindawg Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I'll bite my tongue and say "what do you expect of a get out the vote minion?" Did someone say minyan? We'll be there! Quote
G-spotter Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Now all these press conferences breaking news alerts This just in while your government looks for a war to win Flames from the blame game, names? Where do I begin? Walls closing in get some help to my kin Who cares? While the rest of the Bush nation stares As the drama unfolds as we the people under the stairs 50% of this Son of a Bush nation Is like hatin' on Haiti and setting up assassinations Ask Pat Robertson - quiz him Ssmells like terrorism Racism in the news, still one-sided news Saying whites find food Prey for the national guard who be ready to shoot Cause they sayin' "them blacks loot" What is you boy Son Of A Bush Doin'? Nothin' New Orleans in the morning, afternoon, and night Hell No We Ain't Alright (4x) Fires, earthquakes, tsunamis, I don't mean to scare, Wasn't this written somewhere? Disgraces all I see is black faces moved out to all these places Emergency state, corpses, alligators and snakes Big difference between this haze and them diamonds on the VMA's We better look at what's really important Under this sun especially if you over 21 This ain't no TV show, ain't no video This is really real, beyond them same ole "keep it real" Quotes from them TV stars drivin' big rim cars 'Streets be floodin,' B no matter where you at, no gas Driving is a luxury, urgency Don't y'all know, they said it's a State of emergency Shows somebody's government is far from reality... New Orleans in the morning, afternoon, and night Hell No We Ain't Alright (4x) I see here we be the new faces of refugees Who ain't even overseas but stuck here on our knees Forget the plasma TV-ain't no electricity New worlds upside down-and out of order Shelter? Food? Wasssup, wheres the water? No answers from disaster, them masses be hurtin' So who the fuck they call, Halliburton? Son of a Bush, how you gonna trust that cat? To fix shit when all that help is stuck in Iraq? Making war plans takin' more stands In Afghanistan 2000 soldiers dyin' in the sand But that's over there, right? Now what's over here is a noise so loud That some can't hear But on TV I can see Bunches of people lookin' just like me New Orleans in the morning, afternoon, and night Hell No We Ain't Alright (4x) Quote
JayB Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 but hey, if you're jayb or kookookojak, you can just say "I don't believe the 600,000 figure" just like if you are a fundie you can say "I don't believe the evolution myth" Hey - it's the "I'm losing both the argument in one thread so I'll restate it somewhere else" tactic. Neat. The absolutist statements that you were spewing out before you ran away to another thread have way more in common with the "It's in the bible therefore I believe it" perspective that you are referring to than anything that I've articulated. Only people that live in some kind of a cloistered dreamworld or refuse to acknowledge the kind of moral complexity that one normally encounters in the real world, beyond the age of twelve, could possibly hang onto the kind of perspective that you bring to pretty much any political realities that get discussed here from time to time. Don't you have Cuban "not terrorists" to coddle? I don't actually know what you are talking about, but it must have something to do with someone in the Cuban emigre community using violence against the Cuban regime in some fashion or another. I've always thought that the glib "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." statement is a transparent crock of shit, and one could just as easily and logically say that "One man's romantic is another man's rapist," "One man's cannibal is another man's gourmand" or any number of other statements that conflate two things that share certain components but are moral opposites of one another. When determining whether a not a person qualifies as a terrorist or a freedom fighter you have to asses several characteristics. Is their intention to deliberately kill as many civilians as possible as a means of futhering their objectives? Does the society that they wish to create by means of violence one that bears any resemblance to anything that resembles a free society, or is what they are fighing to impose its antithesis? Is the reason that they are resorting to violence to fill the gap between their ambitions and what the public will accept without violent compulsion? Do they recognize that the public will reject their vision and the arguments they used to support it if they were forced to use dialogue to persuade them instead of violence? Are there political means available to them that do not require violence in order to bring about political change? Does the society that they are attacking permit vastly more political freedoms than the society that the "freedom fighters" aspire to create? In just about every case, the answer to most, if not all of these questions is not one that comports with the "Freedom Fighter" label that gets applied to most terrorists movements or insurrections. Since Cuba is a politically repressive state where the people neither enjoy political freedoms nor have any means to bring about change through their political system and most of the people who want to see the regime overthrown have ambitions of creating a society with vastly more political and personal freedoms than the population currently enjoys, I'd give anyone who attacked the regime on behalf of these causes more leeway than someone who attacked, say, the Dutch government on pursuit of the same grounds. However, since the "terrorist or freedom fighter" question also involves asking whether or not there's any way to bring about the changes they desire without violence, attacking the Cuban government would fail on that front, and anyone who deliberately attacks civilians to achieve their political ends categorically falls into the former category. So - if the people you were talking about were out to down a planeload of Cuban citizens, then they'd fall into the "terrorist" category. If they were involved in a plot to assasinate Fidel or Raul in some fashion or another that didn't involve targeting civilians, I'd put them into the "Freedom Fighter" category, as the unelected heads of totalitarian/police states are fair game IMO. Quote
JayB Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Now all these press conferences breaking news alerts This just in while your government looks for a war to win Flames from the blame game, names? Where do I begin? Walls closing in get some help to my kin Who cares? While the rest of the Bush nation stares As the drama unfolds as we the people under the stairs 50% of this Son of a Bush nation Is like hatin' on Haiti and setting up assassinations Ask Pat Robertson - quiz him Ssmells like terrorism Racism in the news, still one-sided news Saying whites find food Prey for the national guard who be ready to shoot Cause they sayin' "them blacks loot" What is you boy Son Of A Bush Doin'? Nothin' New Orleans in the morning, afternoon, and night Hell No We Ain't Alright (4x) Fires, earthquakes, tsunamis, I don't mean to scare, Wasn't this written somewhere? Disgraces all I see is black faces moved out to all these places Emergency state, corpses, alligators and snakes Big difference between this haze and them diamonds on the VMA's We better look at what's really important Under this sun especially if you over 21 This ain't no TV show, ain't no video This is really real, beyond them same ole "keep it real" Quotes from them TV stars drivin' big rim cars 'Streets be floodin,' B no matter where you at, no gas Driving is a luxury, urgency Don't y'all know, they said it's a State of emergency Shows somebody's government is far from reality... New Orleans in the morning, afternoon, and night Hell No We Ain't Alright (4x) I see here we be the new faces of refugees Who ain't even overseas but stuck here on our knees Forget the plasma TV-ain't no electricity New worlds upside down-and out of order Shelter? Food? Wasssup, wheres the water? No answers from disaster, them masses be hurtin' So who the fuck they call, Halliburton? Son of a Bush, how you gonna trust that cat? To fix shit when all that help is stuck in Iraq? Making war plans takin' more stands In Afghanistan 2000 soldiers dyin' in the sand But that's over there, right? Now what's over here is a noise so loud That some can't hear But on TV I can see Bunches of people lookin' just like me New Orleans in the morning, afternoon, and night Hell No We Ain't Alright (4x) Hahah. Brayshaw, putting the WACK in Chilliwack. Quote
cj001f Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I don't actually know what you are talking about, but it must have something to do with someone in the Cuban emigre community using violence against the Cuban regime in some fashion or another. I've always thought that the glib "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." statement is a transparent crock of shit, and one could just as easily and logically say that "One man's romantic is another man's rapist," "One man's cannibal is another man's gourmand" or any number of other statements that conflate two things that share certain components but are moral opposites of one another. When determining whether a not a person qualifies as a terrorist or a freedom fighter you have to asses several characteristics. Is their intention to deliberately kill as many civilians as possible as a means of futhering their objectives? Does the society that they wish to create by means of violence one that bears any resemblance to anything that resembles a free society, or is what they are fighing to impose its antithesis? Is the reason that they are resorting to violence to fill the gap between their ambitions and what the public will accept without violent compulsion? Do they recognize that the public will reject their vision and the arguments they used to support it if they were forced to use dialogue to persuade them instead of violence? Are there political means available to them that do not require violence in order to bring about political change? Does the society that they are attacking permit vastly more political freedoms than the society that the "freedom fighters" aspire to create? In just about every case, the answer to most, if not all of these questions is "No" with respect to the most terrorists movements or insurrections that get the "freedom fighter" label erroneously applied to them. Since Cuba is a politically repressive state where the people neither enjoy political freedoms nor have any means to bring about change through their political system and most of the people who want to see the regime overthrown have ambitions of creating a society with vastly more political and personal freedoms than the population currently enjoys, I'd give anyone who attacked the regime on behalf of these causes more leeway than someone who attacked, say, the Dutch government on pursuit of the same grounds. However, since the "terrorist or freedom fighter" question also involves asking whether or not there's any way to bring about the changes they desire without violence, attacking the Cuban government would fail on that front, and anyone who deliberately attacks civilians to achieve their political ends categorically falls into the former category. So - if the people you were talking about were out to down a planeload of Cuban citizens, then they'd fall into the "terrorist" category. If they were involved in a plot to assasinate Fidel or Raul in some fashion or another that didn't involve targeting civilians, I'd put them into the "Freedom Fighter" category, as the unelected heads of totalitarian/police states are fair game IMO. Why Luis Posada Carriles of course - implicated by our own government in the bombing of Cubana Flight 455 which killed 73 people, including the entire Cuban fencing team (there were a few low level party functionaries aboard - such as the director of the shrimp fleet). The Bush administration has steadfastly refused to classify him as a terrorist - most recently last Wednesday. We refuse to extradite him because he may be tortured Now back to your bloviating defense of a moral relativist regime. Quote
JayB Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Well if those are the facts, and you had actually read what I wrote then you'd know that I'd have no problem labeling the guy as a terrorist and having his ass deported to wherever. Quote
cj001f Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Well if those are the facts, and you had actually read what I wrote then you'd know that I'd have no problem labeling the guy as a terrorist and having his ass deported to wherever. And I was just waiting for you to once again defend "the war on terror" Comeon JayB - admit that in the hands of W it's opportunistic bullshit - witness the complete absence of coverage of the homegrown british terror wackjobs vs. the incompetent arab liquid bombers. The coddling of cuban terrorists and others (like Gerry Brown - who is on the Terror watch list, but gets to meet with W at the white house). The focus on Islamic threats when Hindus, Buddhists, Sikhs and Christians operate terror cells. It's farce JayB - the emperor has no clothes! Comeon JayB - say it! Say it! There's nothing wrong with a war on terror in theory! It's just nobody has come up with a working war on terror yet! Quote
fear_and_greed Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 ... as the unelected heads of totalitarian/police states are fair game IMO. Are you talking about Cuba or the USA? Quote
JayB Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 but hey, if you're jayb or kookookojak, you can just say "I don't believe the 600,000 figure" just like if you are a fundie you can say "I don't believe the evolution myth" Signed up for the Institute for Creation Reasearch's newsletter yet? http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr14.php "Iraq Body Count Press Release 16 October 2006 Reality checks: some responses to the latest Lancet estimates." Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Yeah, right. off, you ass clown. Oooh, one post too late for the one two punch. I hate when that happens, don't you? Now you run along and play with your emoticons, Ratskywatsky. my posts are always timely, h'arsecockalicka! now, return to your onanistic blathering. Quote
KaskadskyjKozak Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 but hey, if you're jayb or kookookojak, you can just say "I don't believe the 600,000 figure" just like if you are a fundie you can say "I don't believe the evolution myth" Yeah, I should believe whatever some liberal Canuck f*** says at face value on some shithole internet forum. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Yeah, I should believe whatever some liberal Canuck f*** says at face value on some shithole internet forum. You certainly spend enough time on this shithole forum. Is it a self esteem issue? Do you need a hug? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 (edited) but hey, if you're jayb or kookookojak, you can just say "I don't believe the 600,000 figure" just like if you are a fundie you can say "I don't believe the evolution myth" Signed up for the Institute for Creation Reasearch's newsletter yet? http://www.iraqbodycount.org/press/pr14.php "Iraq Body Count Press Release 16 October 2006 Reality checks: some responses to the latest Lancet estimates." Why don't we just all agree that its a big ole boatload of dead people. The point made still stands. Edited October 17, 2006 by tvashtarkatena Quote
cj001f Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Yeah, I should believe whatever some liberal Canuck f*** says at face value on some shithole internet forum. You certainly spend enough time on this shithole forum. Is it a self esteem issue? Do you need a hug? Shouldn't you be out registering gays, lesbians, crack mothers and welfare scammers to vote? Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 I've always thought that the glib "One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter." statement is a transparent crock of shit, But one man's freedom fighter can become the same man's terrorist...the Afghan freedom fighters, for example, that later morphed into Al Qaeda using the skills that we taught them. We should be very careful what we teach rough characters to do in this world. They don't always stay on your side. Quote
tvashtarkatena Posted October 17, 2006 Posted October 17, 2006 Shouldn't you be out registering gays, lesbians, crack mothers and welfare scammers to vote? ...and that's just my immediate family. A vote is a vote. Quote
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