[TR] Tumwater Buttress- Groundhog Day 8/6/2005

[DirtyHarry]

Asshole.

[Dr_Flush_Amazing]

givl.

[dmuja]

crack bolting is a form of defilement analogous to rape

 

Do you suggest that the cracks consented to bolting?

 

Attention hardman; as your phalus-like digits are forced into the unprotected opening, the yielding feminine earth has no say, has no choice in the matter at all! She lies there unable to defend herself from the intrusive groping, this onslought, this molestation, this unwelcome taking of her innermost secrets. All defenders of the earth should weep now for her pain. It cannot be helped, it cannot be another way! You see now, do you finally see? It is clear and will forever be, that you oh depraved hardman, and all your ilk are in fact rapists, and that ALL form of intercourse with the rock is in fact not other than rape.....

 

Andrea Dworkin

[cappellini]

stop wrecking this sport...as a beginner you still need to learn how to climb, which includes managing runouts at your ability level and placing gear accordingly...i learned how to climb too, but i did it the old fasion way...over time with respect for the grades....not the big mac and fries way...f%^&k your gym and your lame excuses...if you can't lead 5.7 with a little runout than you are not a 5.7 climber...irregardless of what you think

 

don't be fooled..just because the clothing is cute doesn't mean climbing is for everyone...

 

if you don't see gear within ten feet of those bolts you need to learn more about identifying gear placements

[pope]

You are getting all worked up over a beginner's route. Experienced climbers probably would not have trouble protecting those moves with gear, but how many experienced climbers even want to bother with the thing. It's a good route for new leaders to learn on.

 

First of all, when you suggest that "this is a good beginner's route", I assume you mean that with all of the bolts, it offers easy and well-protected climbing to beginners. I'm not sure it's a good idea to point beginners to such climbs. From the beginning, the aspiring leader should know that while some climbs offer the security of a bolt or great gear for every difficult move, many climbs will require making moves nearly as difficult as the crux but with marginal gear. Because of this, it is a good idea to climb with great control, to work in gear on difficult terrain, to know how to down climb and find rests in the middle of trouble. These are the skills beginning leaders should acquire...from the beginning.

 

I don't know what did more harm to spirit of Leavenworth climbing. Was it the fire of '94 or the rash of indiscriminate bolts that litters every slab of granite within a 20-minute hike?

[bwrts]

this crag is actually an old traditional practice area. all of the irresponsible bolting was done overtop the existing lines....and actually, the "real" start would be lower down on the slabs, closer to the road, above the d.silly tr....the entire butress is climbed easily without any of the retro bolt garbage (in fact all bolts are quite close to excellent gear placements)...the descent is a simple walk off, making absolutely no need for the ridiculous convenience anchors which also appeared in recent years. this buttress has been raped by unscrupulous crack bolters and hippocrits and all of this garbage should be removed.

Other than the anchors, about two or three bolts have been added, on the first pitch only, in places that are run out a bit (no, it wasn't me). Sure, 5.9 climber wouldn't be uncomfortable with the run out in those sections, but this is a good place for 5.7 climbers.

 

Second, the walk off sucks bad. It's sandy and nasty and all the traffic on the delicate soils is bad for the environment.

 

Climbers were comfortable for decades on this buttress prior to routebolting. So, CBS, your point is mute.

 

Rapping is dangerous and should be avoided at all cost (assuming safe down climbing or walking). Rapelling is lazy and adds garbage to the cliff. Catbird states the walkoff is sandy and nasty. This is because the slope like most areas around Ltown is sandy and not delicate as he states. I do not see any cryptobiotic soil or the like... Yeah it kinda sucks but then it also IMO is fun to ski/run down these types of slopes.

 

Catbird: Suck it up and learn how to climb sans bolts with 'tricky' pro or whatever and then learn to walk off the formation... many times this is faster and much safer anyways.

[catbirdseat]

Climbers were comfortable for decades on this buttress prior to routebolting. So, CBS, your point is mute.

I believe you meant moot.

 

Rapping is dangerous and should be avoided at all cost (assuming safe down climbing or walking). Rapelling is lazy and adds garbage to the cliff. Catbird states the walkoff is sandy and nasty. This is because the slope like most areas around Ltown is sandy and not delicate as he states. I do not see any cryptobiotic soil or the like... Yeah it kinda sucks but then it also IMO is fun to ski/run down these types of slopes.

Why does it have to be cryptobiotic? It's grass. Grass does a good job of stabilizing soils.

 

Catbird: Suck it up and learn how to climb sans bolts with 'tricky' pro or whatever and then learn to walk off the formation... many times this is faster and much safer anyways.

I can climb that without the bolts and have walked off. So what? You saying you have to be a 5.9 climber to climb this little crag? The walk off takes longer than rappelling.

 

My objection to what was going on in this thread was that it was apparent that many of those commenting on the route had either never climbed it, or else had not climbed it in many years. They were commenting on bolts they hadn't seen. Just knowing there was one bolt was all they needed to know.

 

Go chop those bolts. See if I care.

[ericb]

CBS....as long as were commenting on grammar, how bout Cappellini's use of the word irregardless....ouch

 

Main Entry: ir·re·gard·less

Pronunciation: "ir-i-'gärd-l&s

Function: adverb

Etymology: probably blend of irrespective and regardless

nonstandard : REGARDLESS

usage Irregardless originated in dialectal American speech in the early 20th century. Its fairly widespread use in speech called it to the attention of usage commentators as early as 1927. The most frequently repeated remark about it is that "there is no such word." There is such a word, however. It is still used primarily in speech, although it can be found from time to time in edited prose. Its reputation has not risen over the years, and it is still a long way from general acceptance. Use regardless instead.

 

Other source:

 

Regardless of what you have heard, “irregardless” is a redundancy. The suffix “-less” on the end of the word already makes the word negative. It doesn’t need the negative prefix “ir-” added to make it even more negative.

Edited October 11, 2006 by ericb

[beecher]

Same circle jerk, different thread.

I'm beginning to understand why there are always "12 viewing" when I log on to CC.com

 

I will be sure to climb this route so I can comment intelligently on this important topic. If I am feeling lazy and want to do something really dangerous, I might even.... rappel. whoa

No, wait, this climb has been RUINED by some cowardly and lazy bastard who placed a bolt on what may be a variation to the start! I shouldn't climb it. If I climb without chopping, I'm contributing to the problem. If I climb and don't clip, will I deck?! Am I a 5.10 sport climber climbing 5.7 trad or a 5.4 trad leader climbing 5.7 trad? that bolt is causing an identity crisis! chop it!

[bwrts]

Ok, I meant "moot" but really mute works sortof cuz your statement had no power...

Grass grows much faster than crypto soil. And the descent trail is no worse than Icicle Butt or SNCW.

How do bolts make it 5.7? I am not saying you need to be a 5.9 climber to climb on this crag. If the route is 5.7 with bolts, it is 5.7 without them...

Walk off takes longer, ok, but climbing in a whole is a waste of time, so walk off and waste more time cuz thats what your doing anyways.

I am not going to chop the bolts, but I will bitch about them being there due to proximity to natural pro. However, on second thought maybe I will sometime.

[rodney]

What a shame. They've ruined another good climbing spot by plastering bolts everywhere.

 

 

I guess some people think that they have to make it safe for everyone who steps up to the plate. That's pretty lame.

 

The people which engage in such bolting should pull their heads out of their bums.

[Peter_Puget]

If I recall correctly before the bolt rap stations were in place there were some fix rap stations that included some pins. Someone placed some bolts for anchors and this is what the fuss is all about?

 

I have no idea about the two bolt variation so am withholding comment on it but the general area has been rapped for years. As I wrote in another thread what a bunch of misinformation.

[roboboy]

Since Viktor Kramar, author of Leavenworth guide, takes credit for the FA of the two bolt variation, maybe someone should take it up with him why the proliferation of this and similar bolted routes in the area.

[rodney]

If I recall correctly before the bolt rap stations were in place there were some fix rap stations that included some pins. Someone placed some bolts for anchors and this is what the fuss is all about?

 

I have no idea about the two bolt variation so am withholding comment on it but the general area has been rapped for years. As I wrote in another thread what a bunch of misinformation.

 

If you call talking about the facts of placing shiny bolts where cracks and good modern rock pro would fit misinformation then maybe you should consider schooling there my son.

 

You see the problem we have nowadays is that people come in with this who cares about anything but me right here right now attitude.

 

Perhaps they wear a yellow stripe down their backs now and don't want to talk about it. That's the usual response of no response. They get their buddies to do their fighting for them. Is that you this time?

[Peter_Puget]

What a shame. They've ruined another good climbing spot by plastering bolts everywhere.

 

 

I guess some people think that they have to make it safe for everyone who steps up to the plate. That's pretty lame.

 

The people which engage in such bolting should pull their heads out of their bums.

 

Misinformation is what you just wrote. The anchors bolts aren't everywhere and for the most part seem to have been replacing existing rap stations.

 

People can either discuss things in an engaging maner or they can choose to spray distorting what should be considered objective facts and hurl insults.

 

Speaking of spray - you're a pretty good for three posts!

[rodney]

What a shame. They've ruined another good climbing spot by plastering bolts everywhere.

 

 

I guess some people think that they have to make it safe for everyone who steps up to the plate. That's pretty lame.

 

The people which engage in such bolting should pull their heads out of their bums.

 

Misinformation is what you just wrote. The anchors bolts aren't everywhere and for the most part seem to have been replacing existing rap stations.

 

 

Keep up the spray tho you're pretty good for three posts!

 

It's garbage. It's all about the point were driving here. You want to clutter the subjetc in order to cloud the real issue at hand because you also see the problem but want a diversion instead of confronting the issues.

 

Someone should tell that old crusty bat Kramar to clean it up and quit climbing.

 

You need a new hobby in life like knitting or something else. Your tired self should just give it up. Last time I saw you in the gym it looked like you needed a wheelbarrel to haul your gut around.

 

You know what were talking about here. You're part of the problem.

[Peter_Puget]

Wow I edited my post as you were writing yours..looks like my edit hit the nail on the head.

 

Cheers,

 

[rodney]

Yeah I think I did hit the nail on the head.

[slaphappy]

Since Viktor Kramar, author of Leavenworth guide, takes credit for the FA of the two bolt variation, maybe someone should take it up with him why the proliferation of this and similar bolted routes in the area.

 

..and had you opened your guidebook before typing, you would have realized there is no "two bolt variation"...

 

the amount of BS here is staggering...

[roboboy]

The guide actually calls it a 6 bolt route but I recall only 2 bolts at the start when I actually climbed it. Maybe someone should also take it up with Viktor that the guide is wrong...

[slaphappy]

The guide actually calls it a 6 bolt route but I recall only 2 bolts at the start when I actually climbed it. Maybe someone should also take it up with Viktor that the guide is wrong...

 

That may be what you recall but you're wrong. There are more than two protection bolts on Aint Misbehavin and there are none on Groundhog Day.

[G-spotter]

Welcome back Rodney

[catbirdseat]

The guide actually calls it a 6 bolt route but I recall only 2 bolts at the start when I actually climbed it. Maybe someone should also take it up with Viktor that the guide is wrong...

 

That may be what you recall but you're wrong. There are more than two protection bolts on Aint Misbehavin and there are none on Groundhog Day.

If memory serves me, Ain't Misbehaving also has a third bolt near the top of this alternate first pitch to Groundhog Day. The top part is pretty easy slab without any natural pro. So how old a route is Ain't misbehaving? I assume it's newer than Groundhog Day.

[roboboy]

you would have realized there is no "two bolt variation"...

 

...out of context...the original statement referred to a two bolt start in order to identify the route and no one really gave a s**t exactly how many bolts there were above that. but there definitely aren't six bolts unless someone recently chopped some (unless maybe you count the anchor chains...).

[Mr_Phil]

This has got to be the lamest thread on rc.com.