Who is the Minnehaha bolt cop?

[spotly]

...Five bolted anchors for one climb is excessive.

Wow - 5!? Which route would that be? Edited August 9, 2006 by spotly

[drater]

Anybody else wondering how many of the bolts on the Main Wall Donny Baker could pull out with his uncle's wrecker before ending up on Cops?

[Roadstead1]

Why don't you just admit you are the "bolt cop"?

I would be the First one to stand up and say I did it and I would be the last one to go out and do it.

 

I have been called a lot of things over a lot of years and "Bolt Cop" was never one.

[olyclimber]

Let's hear another Spokanism.

[olyclimber]

just post it!

[G-spotter]

he has a very sound and well thought out reason for protecting those bolts that are there to aid new climbers.

 

Should be aiding bigwalls, not new climbers. Swear to god when I was a new climber if some sick fuck tried to aid me I'd clock his ass with a 2x4, I would have.

[pindude]

Iain said:

I love these eastern washington crag threads. Swear to god I do.

 

Yes, very entertaining. Looks like I'm not going to get any on-topic answers here, but at least it’s good for quite a few laughs. A few things to respond to here, sorry I’m not going to take the time to come up with a song for you all.

 

Bigbro said:

What happened to low impact climbing?

Five bolted anchors for one climb is excessive. When are the handrails, fixed safety lines, and ladders being installed?

 

Obviously, there are people on this site that do not want the bolts replaced...

 

Some people on this site...Dave and Marty? You've got to be kidding. Two things: The posters on cc.com are not representative of all Spokane area climbers, and Dave and Marty represent the extreme fringe of the narrower sport climbing community—they certainly do NOT represent “low impact” climbing! Talk to me in person, Bigbro: I’ll objectively enlighten you.

 

I like virtually all types of climbing, from trad to sport, and I have always believed in low-impact climbing. Yes, 5 anchors is excessive. I’ve never put in 5 anchors above a line, nor have I been with folks who have done so. (Yes, I’d like to know the route fatboy was referring to with 5 anchors, too.) When bolts on top of Minne’s walls have been replaced over the last 20 years, myself and the others I’ve worked with have done it judiciously. In several instances at the top of Minne, other folks have added additional bolts mostly at the very edge, I’m assuming because they don’t want to use longer slings to rig TR setups.

 

Bottom line is this: For safe instruction, for beginners learning how to climb, rappel, and belay, and to teach and train for rescue techniques (professional and volunteer rescue org’s), you need SOME anchors that are placed AWAY from the very edge. At the top of Minne, there are few opportunities to place artificial pro—thus the need for bolts on top. And I'm talking about anchors away from the edge not on all routes, but intermittently on a few spread out over mostly the main cliff as you go from end to end.

 

The very urban crag of Minne has traditionally been an instructional/learning area for the uses I’ve listed, and is THE area for such in the greater area. It was saved from development (the property was purchased and turned into a public park) by the very climbers and rescue folks who teach and train there. Minne traditionally has, and continues to be, "cleaned up" both informally and formally by many including myself. Minne was massively cleaned up—graffiti and garbage removal, among other things—in a $50,000, 200+ person effort 4 years ago by the overall community. Were Marty or Dave/Roadstead ever involved in any these purchase/clean-up efforts at Minne? Have they done anything to improve or confirm access or clean up other areas?

 

Interestingly, when the bolts on top were chopped 2 years ago, and we needed to replace them then, fatboy was among the first to offer his rotodrill to do the work—which I appreciate. When we replace the missing bolts, we will again do it judiciously and minimize the impact with the bottom line of safety in mind.

 

 

Roadstead/Dave Stephens said:

Steve, If you can't remember what we talked about, that would be my point. You don't care what I have to say about McLellan, so why should we/they care what you have say about anything. You say they are needed bolts and should be there, I say your wrong and there just up there for the weak sauce that can't set up there own Belays/Anchors for a TR or a rappel. Know one leads out at Minne and if they do it's after topropeing the route many, many times. I say you teach them how to do it right and then let Darwin do the rest.

 

I don't mean to be a Ass it is just who I am. "A ASS"

 

Marty Bland said:

Well Steve, how does it feel to get the bolts yanked off stuff you like to climb on? kinda sucks huh? Now you know how the folks at Dishman felt a few years back after the anti-bolt clean up party.

And no, I didn't do it nor do I have a clue who did, or even care for that matter(I admit, I'm chuckling a little on the inside). Hopefully whoever did it, will take all the hangers and put them on the routes below where they belong. Maybe the'll even put a nice set of stainless chains w/ beaner at top. Minne is the stupidest crag ive ever been to. More bolts on the top of the cliff than in the face. Totally retarded.

 

Dave, Marty: I never thought the two of you or those in either of our climbing circles had anything to do with the bolts being removed from the top of Minne. This is a strange case where some maverick who hasn’t a clue thinks he’s doing the right thing.

 

Generally, I am diplomatic, and in both your cases over the past few years I’ve held back to give you both the benefit of the doubt and to prove yourselves. Well, prove yourself you both do, but of what I’ll let you each figure it out. I give up on you two.

 

Dave, you say I “don’t care about McLellan?” Where did you get that? What in hell are you rambling on about? Never mind, I don’t need to hear a response from you.

 

Marty, the topic I’ve brought up here has nothing at all to do with Dishman. It’s even more different than apples and oranges. Your Dishman “anti-bolt cleanup party” would not have happened had you and others shown up like you said you were going to. Another act of dishonor for you in a long list: jeopardizing our climbing access to certain crags, chipping and placing artificial holds on lines you can’t climb, stealing other’s projects, constantly dissing other climbers and generally stirring up dissension, to name a few. And I've been dealing with missing/chopped bolts since before you started climbing.

 

Both of you do the most to put the joke in Eastern Washington climbing on this board, and skew the IQ on this side of the Cascade crest. I could go on, but won’t. I don’t have the time to waste, and I’m not going to respond to any more illogical, antagonistic, off-topic personal attacks by the likes of Dave Stephens and Marty Bland.

 

On the other side of the coin, thanks for your support Val and others.

 

I no longer expect to discover the answer to my question on cc.com; I’m sure I’ll find the answer on my own sooner or later. Meanwhile on this board, feel free to entertain including posting any of your favorite songs.

 

[olyclimber]

I think Donnie is a sport climber, not a wig baller.

[olyclimber]

holy crap, a real human voice.

 

So what is the best place to crag over there? There's like 3-4 places to climb?

[iain]

This thread is obviously going to be pretty sweet. None of that sesame street shit like over in the Beacon thread.

[pu]

I have not been able to get the right rythym for the song yet.

It's probably me.

[pindude]

This'll probably disappoint you Iain...

 

I climbed out at McLellan today, which is a small, quiet untrodden crag that sees very little traffic. It's not destination-worthy for out-of-towners, believe me, but is a peaceful, mostly natural area, perfect for us locals for a half-day or evening. I've had a very small hand in a couple of the routes out there, but by and large the person who can take the most credit for the area is Dave Stephens. Short single-pitch granite, mostly sport and some cracks. State Parks-owned. Named after the McLellan family who live in the area, some of whom are climbers themselves, and incidentally are related to my main climbing partner. McLellan is developed so that it's made for lead climbing with lower-offs so the sensitive top areas of the rock aren't impacted. Well thought out, and the opposite of Minne.

 

My partner and I were the only ones out there , and I gotta mention that in the middle of my thrashing around, Dave, Arden, and Tizzy walked up. We had a good discussion and made peace. Thanks, Dave.

 

Now I just need to meet Marty away from cc.com and in person.

[leearden]

Well, since pindude has already ruined a perfectly good acrimonious song-fest and rerouted it to actual conversation, I'll spare you my rendition of Camptown races.

p.s.

yesterday I didn't realize the other Steve climbing at McLellen rocks was the Steve Reams(sp?) that has been opening new routes. If I had have known, I would have certainly thanked you for the effort.

thanks steve

ap

[Roadstead1]

Let's hear another Spokanism.

That do you think Crap like that rolls from me like shit in the AM.

 

I think not

[olyclimber]

I will make a trip to Spokane to go climbing. Post some pictures to get me psyched for the big drive.

[pindude]

OK, I think some order is being restored in the Spokane area.

 

Turns out the person responsible for many of the bolts being removed up top—but perhaps not all—is a long-time honored denizen of the Spokane climbing scene, and a good friend of mine. While this person indeed was cleaning up with the best of intentions, and is likely the person who does the most cleaning up of trash and weeds (Minne has a huge knapweed problem) on a regular basis, they were removing selective bolts without previously speaking with others of us who climb and do the greatest share of teaching and training there.

 

It's true there has been a proliferation of bolts on top of Minne in the last few years. At this point, we’re moving forward and taking the opportunity to ensure we have the minimum amount of sound anchors for the variety of the uses seen out at Minne—instruction for climbing, belaying, rappelling and rescue, rescue training, top-roping, and leading. So we’ll start with the anchors on top, and then move onto the faces, where there are many bolts that are old and need to be replaced, and where discussion and consensus will be reached before any new bolts are added. There are also questions of how we can better manage Minne and the overall park. I don’t necessarily want to be the point person, as this should be democratic, but I’m willing to start the ball rolling. Anyone interested is willing to contact me.

 

I apologize for coming on strong in the first place, and for offending anyone, including especially Dave, Marty, and other eastern Washington climbers.

 

In my last post I wrote that McLellan is “not destination-worthy for out-of-towners,” in part because that was my belief, but even more so because I’d like to see the area protected for at least the local climbers. Talking to Dave, and he’s right, McLellan is destination-worthy, as well as a lot of other Spokane-area climbing. He describes it as world-class, and it’s true. I take for granted that we have so many places to crag around here, not just in the surrounding area within a couple hours’ drive, but also within the metropolitan Spokane-Coeur d’Alene area.

 

Nearby and close enough for lunchtime or evening climbing we’ve got Minnehaha, Dishman, Deep Creek, Post Falls (Q’emiln Park), and Tubbs Hill. Within an hour or even half-hour for many folks are the Rocks of Sharon, McLellan, and Tum Tum. A couple hours away or less are Metaline Falls, China Bend, Laclede, the Pend Orielle area, and the central Washington desert area including Frenchman Coulee and Banks Lake. The aforementioned include a variety of rock types: granite, limestone, basalt. A day trip in our area will get you on the Selkirk Crest, including Chimney Rock, for stellar alpine granite. Weekend trips from Spokane-CDA and the list is endless, and includes incredible alpine in 4 states and 2 provinces. So, out-of-towners, feel welcome to climb around here. We've got plenty of cragging to go around.

 

Yeah, do have it good here in our area, and good is going to come out of the question I initially raised here.

[pindude]

Of course you're welcome to come here olyclimber. Big drive, ha! You can practically coast coming off the Cascade crest. Drive time from Seattle is about 4 hours, but I hear a lot of folks claim they do it in less than 3. I don't have good accessible pics I can easily post, but am sure others will oblige.

[G-spotter]

olyclimber's first stop will likely be the Flying J on Sprague.

[bigbro]

 

At one time there were five bolts on top of Dihedral (3 near the edge and two 10-15 feet back). I believe there are at least four that remain, which is too many.

 

Anyway, my previous point was simply that there is a lot of hardware on top of the Main Wall @ Minni. Rather than slapping more bolts in, the impact to other climbers and recreators should be considered. Dude, your own buddy is the guy rippin out the bolts! I'm just saying a little less exposure/impact is a reasonable objective.

[billcoe]

Let's hear another Spokanism.

Roadkill said:

That do you think Crap like that rolls from me like shit in the AM.

 

I think not

 

OK, I got it, hey Dave Stephens. Dave, Bill Coe....Yosemite @20 some years ago? Hi Dude! Hey, I just helped Jim Opdycke move, where the hell were you?

 

Take care dude, don't let any of these banjo playing, Sheep lovin hillbillies nail you on the back of the head with some Brass Knuckles eh?!

[leearden]

after the Flying j, you could try this

[leearden]

bear with me, I'm trying to make these bigger

[leearden]

or this?

 

 

http://www.cascadeclimbers.com/plab/data/503/744Image034.jpg[image/]

[leearden]

or this?

[leearden]

he's sooo BIG

 

 

 

 

 

here brett shows us "the evolving nature of flakes"

 

 

and the head WOUND cave

Edited August 15, 2006 by leearden