World Class?

[olyclimber]

I don't think so. World class traffic problems do not a world class city make. I don't need a pro basketball team...what I need is a modern transit system that doesn't get stuck in traffic. Light rail is a start, but until it links the whole city up, it is just a one line train. For me rejecting the Sonics is just voting about where I want my financial interest focused on...on a transit system, not a sports team.

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/278505_goodriddance22.html

[jmace]

I dunno sucks to lose something like that..hope you dont

[olyclimber]

just look at how Vancouver collapsed after losing the Grizzlies!

 

Ya, it would/will suck, but I'd rather have a basic mass transportation system than a sports team if I had to choose between the two.

[dmuja]

#1) Howy Schultz sucks pig dong, I blame him mostly. Boycott flarbucks! Here's a guy who took a team/business, did nothing with it except lose - including "Mr Sonic" Nate Mcmillin - and utterly could NOT figure out how to make his business/team connect with its home town and fans. Some business man. What a fucking moron. Then to top it off - or in spite - he sells the team to out of towners! As far as Im concerned he dissed Seattle big time.

 

#2) Seattle doesn't give a fuk because no one here is from Seattle! Seattle is full of over paid, lazy-techno-yuppie-suedo-liberals from the Bay area who want to pretend that they are on some other level from the rest of the country. Theyre not. They sit by while the city is on the fast track to becoming a suburb of Bellevue or Marin county CA. Soon, the whole thing will be one big fucking condo spread and they can rename it to "the Ivory City" because not a single working class person will be in sight!

 

#3) If they keep up the snotty attitude they'll drive the entire business tax base away and THEN see how expensive it is to live there "Well, we still have Gates and Boeing etc.." give me a break! How long do you think THEY will put up with this shit?

 

#4) It wouldn't have been the the Sonics fault that there is no good transit system, blame the worst mayor in history Nickles for insisting on a "Big Dig" fucking tunnel to replace the *very fixable* viaduct. I can't wait

 

I love the "seattle angst", worrying about their cities "conciousness" as if there were such a thing. Seattlelites -what ever the fuk - get what they deserve.

 

The only thing worse than Seattle politics, is ..well..I can't think of anything right now..

 

D

[fenderfour]

You are right, the world is about to end.

[archenemy]

Thank god.

[Fairweather]

I don't think so. World class traffic problems do not a world class city make. I don't need a pro basketball team...what I need is a modern transit system that doesn't get stuck in traffic. Light rail is a start, but until it links the whole city up, it is just a one line train. .....

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/278505_goodriddance22.html

 

As most Seattleites seem to forget, light rail/Sound Transit is being paid for by the good people in both Pierce and Snohomish Counties too. ...Despite Seattle/King County's control of the RTA board and constant "shortening" of the line. Explain to me again why I'm paying for these projects?

 

As for the Sonics....Fuck 'em. I have yet to see where any taxpayer-funded pro-sports payoff resides.

[Fairweather]

 

#4) It wouldn't have been the the Sonics fault that there is no good transit system, blame the worst mayor in history Nickles for insisting on a "Big Dig" fucking tunnel to replace the *very fixable* viaduct. I can't wait

 

 

 

 

D

 

Damn straight! Why the fuck are the rest of us paying for Seattle's Viaduct repair/replacement?!?! (can you say 'Tacoma Narrows Bridge public/private partnership'?) Maybe they should tear down that fucking convention center they built over I-5 and widen the freeway there. Just get rid of that Alaska Way viaduct altogether.

[JoshK]

I don't think so. World class traffic problems do not a world class city make. I don't need a pro basketball team...what I need is a modern transit system that doesn't get stuck in traffic. Light rail is a start, but until it links the whole city up, it is just a one line train. .....

 

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/278505_goodriddance22.html

 

As most Seattleites seem to forget, light rail/Sound Transit is being paid for by the good people in both Pierce and Snohomish Counties too. ...Despite Seattle/King County's control of the RTA board and constant "shortening" of the line. Explain to me again why I'm paying for these projects?

 

As for the Sonics....Fuck 'em. I have yet to see where any taxpayer-funded pro-sports payoff resides.

 

Because King county's economy and tax revenue is what makes this state go, esp. the surrounding counties. What benefits the econonomy of Seattle and king county benefits you, like it or not.

 

 

Damn them frickin' city folk and 'dar fancy convention center and viaduct thingy! 'Dem liberal yuppies don't know what makes a real city! Turn 'dat vaiduct into a NASCAR track and the convention center in a shootin' range!

 

As for the convention center - once more, that is something that draws mucho business $$ which benefits you. You can bitch about king county and Seattle all you want, but the rest of the area would not be what it is without it.

[Fairweather]

Are you trying to attribute that second quote to me? Clever, but lacking originality with the southern banter and Nascar wit. A classic example of Seattle arrogance has once again been displayed by JoshK. You go, Tiger!

[JoshK]

Yes, I'm sure my quote was mistaken as attributable to you...

 

I see you completely ignored the point I made, which you know is correct - with a Seattle-centric economy, paying taxers to support projects which exist largely within the city is not only nescessary but benifical to everybody. Like it or not, it's true.

 

Anyway, it's 46 billion degrees in here, and I have better things to do then sit on the comp.

[Carp]

Anyway, it's 46 billion degrees in here

 

Now there's a Seattleite!

 

I've always enjoyed the "I live in BF eastern Washington, why do I pay extra taxes for roads in Seattle?" complaint. It's because the people in Seattle are paying for your farm aid and schools.

[Fairweather]

Yes, we all saw how anxious Seattlites were to pay for their monorail project. When it became apparent the state wasn't going to contribute, the locals snapped those purses and wallets shut so fast they nearly broke the sound barrier.

...Of course it was yet another good excuse to sieze some private property and re-sell it for a tidy profit!

 

A case can be made for a state-funded 520 bridge. It's a state highway, after all. But the viaduct begins and ends in Seattle. Via your logic, Josh, the other 70% of the state should relieve King County citizens of all their tax burdens? Have you noticed that the Port of Tacoma now handles more shipping than Seattle? Have you noticed that Boeing HQ now resides in Chicago? Other than being a necessary center for business - most of which actually transpires elsewhere - I don't see Seattle as much more than vacant stares, ivory towers, and goofy politics along the fringe.

Edited July 24, 2006 by Fairweather

[archenemy]

Have you noticed that the Port of Tacoma now handles more shipping than Seattle?

 

This is not only incorrect, it is misleading. If you include SeaTac, which is controled by the Port of Seattle, Seattle does a great deal more shipping business than Tacoma can ever hope to.

[Fairweather]

http://www.aapa-ports.org/pdf/2005_NORTH_AMERICAN_CONTAINER_TRAFFIC.pdf

 

Ok, a virtual tie with Tacoma poised to surpass in one or two years. So again, how can Josh hold to his Seattle-centric statements against such statistics insomuch as highway/rail infrastructure is required to deliver goods to market?

[olyclimber]

Tacoma is poised to take over the world!

[archenemy]

http://www.aapa-ports.org/pdf/2005_NORTH_AMERICAN_CONTAINER_TRAFFIC.pdf

 

Ok, a virtual tie with Tacoma poised to surpass in one or two years. So again, how can Josh hold to his Seattle-centric statements against such statistics insomuch as highway/rail infrastructure is required to deliver goods to market?

The TEU count does not include the cargo from the airport.

 

In order to get goods from the port (Seattle and Tacoma) to the Eastern part of the state, the infrastructure must be in place. It really is that simple.

[Fairweather]

So where does the Alaska Way viaduct fit into this formula? And why am I paying for an "emergency replacement" who's form hasn't even been decided upon over a year after the tax in part to pay for it was imposed by Queen Gregoire?

[olyclimber]

there is no relationship between a strong enconomy and a good transportation system. that has been proven time and time again historically, but then history is a liberal art. yeah, lets get rid of the viaduct. maybe build some moats around our infrastructure to protect it from evil doers too.

[slothrop]

A large amount of freight traffic goes up and down the viaduct, since it goes through industrial SoDo and right by the port facilities.

 

You're paying for it because you're a responsible citizen who understands the concept of the public good. Ask Mayor Nickels why it's not being built yet.

 

Perhaps you'll care about replacing the viaduct after it falls down and Seattle's afternoon rush hour traffic backs up into Tacoma.

[Fairweather]

So why aren't YOU helping to pay for the new Tacoma Narrows Bridge?

[RuMR]

cuz its a joint venture deal with profits to be made...

 

any other dumb questions?

[olyclimber]

The Tacoma Narrows. Excellent name for a new NBA franchise for when Tacoma becomes the center of the known universe.

[Fairweather]

cuz its a joint venture deal with profits to be made...

 

 

...just like your viaduct should be...

[foraker]

This discussion reminds me of the myth of the Western American who swaddles himself/herself in a coat of rugged individualism to hide the pale white underbelly fed by federal subsidies. A perfect example is, of course, all the (mostly stupid) hydroelectric projects in the West that were largely paid for by easterners. My home state of Alaska still sucks mightily at the government teat, despite the mystical (some might say musky) air of the individualistic Alaskan man. Back in the day, Anchorage was famous for not having the money to fix its main roads (quickly gutted by all the geniuses using studded tires) because the citizenry wouldn't allow them to raise the money to do so. As it was told to me, the city would then apply to the feds for emergency funds to fix the roads. Yes, get the rest of the country to pay for roads you're responsible for. Lather, rinse, repeat. What's best for taxpayers is rarely an issue in large projects, it seems. The overriding concern is the prestige of politicians and the financial interests of contractors. Neither do they always seem to make economic sense (see, again, western dams). Theoretically, the best economic solution might be to close the port of Seattle and let Tacoma handle the traffic. Political power/presitige and the economic interests of contractors, however, would never allow that to happen even though it might be the 'best' solution. Having seen how well Boston has done with the oversight of it's Big Dig and how SF has fared with the new span to the East Bay, I'd be more than a little concerned that any money spent on a fancy solution like a tunnel would be good money thrown into a crumbling choss pile. Anyway, the only solution we'll likely see is many community input meetings, lots of hand wringing, and eventually a big truck pulls up with lots of duct tape and some bibles.