Alpine Cordelette Length

[JAL]

What's a good length for a cordelette in an alpine rack?

[Gary_Yngve]

I'm lazy. I went to Pro Mountain Sports and bought 5mm techcord already precut to 20 feet.

[colt45]

I have always used 17 feet of cord, can't remember how I came up with that number but it seems to work perfectly.

 

I don't actually use a cordelette much any more (it's faster and easier to use the rope to equalize anchors, unless you're climbing in a party of 3 or block leading with complex anchors) but I usually carry it anyway for the occasional block or tree tie-off, and primarily to cut in case I need to leave rap anchors. Which is why I use nylon cord (much cheaper than spectra).

[underworld]

17 to 21 feet... not an exact science. no matter what - sometimes you'll wish it were a little longer, sometimes you'll wish it were a little shorter. cut and don't look back.

 

but i think i've heard something like "long enough to make 3 loops fit over your shoulder" or something like that

[spotly]

18 feet, five and 3/4 inches. I got charged for 20 though.

[genepires]

ditto with the two previous repies. 17 to 20 feet of 7mm perlon cord. This will very often become rappel anchors so skip the spendy stuff. I would also reccomend that a climber carry two cordelettes, for anchors (7mm) and rescue situations (6mm fine). You would be surprised how much cord you could go through.

[haireball]

much shorter than 15 feet is too short for effective use as anchor equalizers, or for escaping belay / passing knot. much longer than 20 feet is unwieldy. anything in between seems to work OK. The recommendation of 5 meters comes from the French guide-training school at Chamonix, where the use of cordelettes seems to have first been popularized (this is why we use the French term "cordelette" - 'little rope' - instead of the English 'accessory cord'). I tend to favor 6mm since I climb almost exclusively with double rope belay systems usuing skinny ropes. It gives better bite as a prussik, and is lighter and cheaper than larger diameter cord.

[ken4ord]

17 to 21 feet... not an exact science. no matter what - sometimes you'll wish it were a little longer, sometimes you'll wish it were a little shorter. cut and don't look back.

 

but i think i've heard something like "long enough to make 3 loops fit over your shoulder" or something like that

 

I do that, but I make it so that it is four loops that are the same length as 2 foot sewn slings, basically around total length 17 feet.

[Gary_Yngve]

Before I got the 5mm tech cord stuff, my cordalette was bulky 7mm, and I often found myself leaving it at home (or wanting to) on a lightweight alpine trip.

[JAL]

18 feet, five and 3/4 inches. I got charged for 20 though.

 

Damn... the lame shop guy cut me a piece that is 18 feet, five and 7/8 inches... will it still work?

 

Anyway, thanks to all of you for responding!

[DirtyHarry]

I got the mammut super light shit double standard shoulder length and thats all I ever seem to need. Fuck cord and fuck 20 feet of it.

[selkirk]

I've gone to using a web-o-lette almost exclusively. Seems to work great for slinging stuff, threading around blocks, and equalizing anchors just fine. I'm not often in a position to need to leave rap slings so that's not a big concern. I usually carry a couple of double length (4'?) sewn runners anyway for leavers and for slinging sap covered trees

It all works so no worries.

[Dechristo]

I like the 14' web-o-lettes.

[catbirdseat]

Webolettes do an ever worse job of distributing loads between anchor points than do cordellettes, if that's something you care about.

[Dechristo]

how do you figure?

[Cobra_Commander]

how do you figure?

 

Just look at all the anchor failures caused by webolettes.

 

look at the bones!

[G-spotter]

You'll laugh right up until an errant webolette kills your crippled grandma.

[mattp]

I am sure that tests will show one system superior to another in various different scenarios, but it seems to me that usually the most important consideration in using any webolette, cordelette or a extension of your climbing rope is to tie everything together quickly and cleanly so you and your partner or partners can set up, anchor to, and leave any given belay efficiently. Equalizing everything or having it self equalizing so as to reduce potential shock loading is, in my view, slightly less important but seems to draw more attention - at least in these techno discussions.

 

I'm not saying this isn't a concern - all of us have had to set up belay anchors where we really didn't feel we had a secure piece anywhere near, but far more often I see people fooling with complex systems where it just isn't warranted.

[Cobra_Commander]

well said matt

[selkirk]

Webolettes do an ever worse job of distributing loads between anchor points than do cordellettes, if that's something you care about.

 

Once you put in a power point and fix the lengths between each piece and the power point, then they're all the same. Equalized in only one direction but with no extension should a piece pull.

 

Now I guess if you want to start tying individual knots in the strands running to different pieces to try and set up a sliding equalization with only minimal extension in case a piece falls, then maybe your right. That's way too damn much work for me though!

[Cobra_Commander]

Once you put in a power point and fix the lengths between each piece and the power point, then they're all the same. Equalized in only one direction but with no extension should a piece pull.

 

Well if you can tolerate reading rockclimbing.com, I believe the argument there was that a cordolette does not equalize pieces as well as it may appear. In fact, it can equalize quite poorly at times. This brought about all kinds of rube goldberg contraptions to deal with equalization and a condemnation of cordolettes for all but 2 bolt anchors in classic internet witch trial fashion.

 

Cordolettes have been hung on for years, and unless I'm mistaken, there have not been a rash of gear ripping cordolette accidents. Sometimes the internet provides access to information before it is mature enough to be accessed. This is why books are still nice. Regardless, the information is still valuable, and an important factor to consider.

[DirtyHarry]

I remember reading, I think it was in Roper's Camp 4 book, how in the 70's it was fashionable when portaledging on El Cap to have everybody and everything tied into like one shady blade or micronut but then back it all up off a bomber anchor. Perhaps we should all try this just to see what holds and what doesn't.

[catbirdseat]

Webolettes do an ever worse job of distributing loads between anchor points than do cordellettes, if that's something you care about.

 

Once you put in a power point and fix the lengths between each piece and the power point, then they're all the same. Equalized in only one direction but with no extension should a piece pull.

As long as you understand that the pieces don't really SHARE the load. It's serial redundancy with no extension. If every piece is bomber, than no worries.

 

The reason that the webolette does an even worse job of distributing or equalizing load (than a cordellette) is that two legs are always single strand and one or more are double strand. Those transmit more force to the pieces to which they are attached than the single ones.