Avalung or Avadumb?

[fear_and_greed]

So I've been wearing an Avalung for a while now but lately have heard some disparaging comments about it. I don't start any of these conversations and don't go into the backcountry to argue with these retards, but they don't seem to understand the concept behind the device.

Any other Avalung users getting the same treatment?

[MisterMo]

Y'know your post inspires me to wonder how many of this year's tree well deaths would have been prevented by such a device.

 

As far as being buried in a slide, you're apt to have some other problems not addressed by an avalung. This will be more true the wetter the snow you're buried in.

 

There's a school of thought that holds that helmets make skiing less safe because they can create an illusion if invincibility; I wonder if the same could be said about avalungs.

 

I don't mean to diss ya if you use one; these are just thoughts that come to mind.

[TrogdortheBurninator]

I had one of the original avalungs and didnt use it much due to convenience. As the design has improved I have become interested in them again. The new ones that are integrated into a BD pack seem like a big step forward in useability. The way I see it, the more ways you can stack the odds in your favor the better.

 

MisterMo, I understand your invincibilty argument, but don't think it is a good mentality. Why is an avalung any more likely to provide this feeling of invincibilty than a beacon, shovel or probe?

[MisterMo]

I

MisterMo, I understand your invincibilty argument, but don't think it is a good mentality. Why is an avalung any more likely to provide this feeling of invincibilty than a beacon, shovel or probe?

 

That's an excellent question to which I do not have an answer.

 

Why a helmet would cause a greater sense of invincibility than release bindings I don't know either.

 

You are right; if a person is in situations where burial is increasingly likely...might as wel have everything going for you.

[Wallstein]

I skied in Jackson for a while this winter and met this older lady, actually my friends grandmother. We had just come back from skiing and she saw we were wearing "one of those electronic devices," meaning transciever. She start to preach to us if we need that thing we were skiing in the wrong place. Kinda funny coming from a grandma. I later saw a picture of her flying of some 20ft cliff, I think she was a badass.

 

I don't know about the Avabong, but it seems like a dam good idea some times.

[DirtyHarry]

She start to preach to us if we need that thing we were skiing in the wrong place.

 

If its steep enough to ski its steep enough to slide.

 

Shit, after being caught in 2 slides this winter, I'm a big wuss about avy's these days.

[G-spotter]

Avalungs might work in Rocky Mountain fluffy puff but is there any documented evidence they haveever saved anyones life or even made a difference in survival rates on the Coast?

[scheissami]

I don't think so. I spent a few weeks at the University of Utah for a wilderness medicine course; one of the docs who developed the Avalung is faculty there and gave our lecture about avalanche medicine/safety. The way he presented the data led me to believe that the benefits have only been shown with controlled mock "burials" though it's certainly reasonable to extrapolate that to the real situation. Clearly, the Avalung is not capable of minimizing mortality from non-respiratory sources, nor is it designed to do so. One could conceivably pair it with other devices being developed, such as the Air-Bag System, which is designed to keep you from being buried as deeply.

 

At the end of the day, though, while you are probably more likely to get killed from other causes in the wet PNW snow, I figure wearing one of these certainly can't hurt.

[G-spotter]

Except hurt your pocketbook, if you pay $200 for something that doesn't work.

[jordop]

Avalungs do nothing for trauma associated with large depositions, debris in slide, large slide distances, etc.

 

I think the next few years will see an increasing amount of balloon technology on the market and while this won't be very attractive at first for the average backcountry weight freak already carrying a pack, it will likely be obligatory for heli operators.

[scheissami]

I think part of the problem, too, is that it's difficult to really "prove" that these things work. There's just so much that goes into people surviving avalanches that it's difficult to say that this device or the other really is what kept them alive. Yeah, it's quite a chunk of change, but if you figure that it may just help you live, well, it seems more reasonable.

 

You could always volunteer to prove it works...

 

(Actually, the experiments this guy did in Utah for hypothermia in burials required that the volunteers have continuous core body temperatures measured...with rectal thermometer probes!)

[JoshK]

It cost me $70 so I bought one. Will it help at all? I dunno, who knows - and hopefully I never find out. Let's remember it doesn't have to be the big slide that kills you. The lung could come in very handy in a tree-well fall or a small loose sluff that buries you without trauma. I figure if I am going to carry the gear to allow me to be tracked (beacon) and dug up (shovel) by my partner, why not also give him a few extra minutes to help me?

 

-josh

[cj001f]

I think the next few years will see an increasing amount of balloon technology on the market and while this won't be very attractive at first for the average backcountry weight freak already carrying a pack, it will likely be obligatory for heli operators.

Don't some heli-operators already use the Avalanche Airbag Pack? http://www.abssystem.com/ They seem to be growing in popularity in Yurp. More oriented towards "offpiste"/sidecountry/daytrip BC skiing mostly, and $$, but the numbers look good...

 

I have an avalung, beacon, etc. I don't expect them to provide more than a marginal/modest increase in my avalanche survivability percentage; avoidance is a better plan.

[foraker]

Agreed, avoidance is the key. As for balloon technology, wouldn't it be better to have a rapidly inflatable balloon on your back? Then you could just float out of harm's way and not worry about being buried in tons of snow. Some people might use it incorrectly though like for helping them summit or getting past that tricky crux....

[AlpineK]

I hear that after that snowboarder got burried at Rudy Berlinger(sp?)'s place he requires all his guests to wear an avalung.

[catbirdseat]

Agreed, avoidance is the key. As for balloon technology, wouldn't it be better to have a rapidly inflatable balloon on your back? Then you could just float out of harm's way and not worry about being buried in tons of snow. Some people might use it incorrectly though like for helping them summit or getting past that tricky crux....

Think about how life jackets are designed. If the floatation were on your back which way would you float- face up or face down?

[cj001f]

 

Uh, it already exists.

[G-spotter]

Agreed, avoidance is the key. As for balloon technology, wouldn't it be better to have a rapidly inflatable balloon on your back? Then you could just float out of harm's way and not worry about being buried in tons of snow. Some people might use it incorrectly though like for helping them summit or getting past that tricky crux....

Think about how life jackets are designed. If the floatation were on your back which way would you float- face up or face down?

 

CBS have you ever used a life jacket

[foraker]

Dude, I'm being silly and thinking of something that would allow you to float up into the air, not float to the top of an avalanche dumping tons of snow on you, which would be even more silly.

[TrogdortheBurninator]

Don't worry Foraker, I understood your humor.

I would have thought this -

"Some people might use it incorrectly though like for helping them summit or getting past that tricky crux.... "

- was a give away.

[BackCountryPunk]

I still like the dispossable avalanche poodles (by Tami Knight), a fitting use for a yappy dog. Once all these little fashion dogs become last seasons style, there should be some smokin deals on 2nd hand micro-dogs.....