Stuart glacier conditions/beta???

[bcollins]

Looking for recent beta for a Stuart No. ridge trip next weekend via Goat pass. Can the Stuart be crossed without an axe, crampons or boots???? I'd rather dispense with all that crap and carryover light with just approach and rock shoes. Thanks,

 

Barry

[mattp]

Be careful with this kind of a question. Whether somebody says "yes, it's no problem" or "no way," you may not be able to depend on their answer because they could eithier be a gaper or a hardman or simply basing their answer on an experience they had two weeks ago in different weather conditions. The real question is, how do YOU feel about crossing snow, which is likely to be frozen solid in the morning and negotiating crevasses (even minimal ones) without what would be considered standard equipment. Also: might you do the climb with some kind of lightweight boot rather than rock shoes, and do you have, or can you get, lightweight crampons that would be compatible? On any given summer weekend, I would wager you will find some parties using full on mountain boots and others running accross the glacier in their sneakers.

[Retrosaurus]

I was on Dragontail yesterday and the snow was as Matt P supposed, bullet-hard. Descending toward Aasgard after the climb the snow was still basically, bullet-hard. Only the top half inch had softenned at all throughout the entire day. Recent cool weather is supposed to change today and be hot through the weekend, likely softening the glaciers enough to make crossing them without "all that crap" less dangerous. No one can report current conditions, unless they are there. Snow conditions can change drastically in 24-hours. The real question is "Are you willing to gamble on conditions?" And if they are tougher than you hoped "Are you going to step over that line and do it anyway or are you going to bail?"

[sayjay]

I agree with mattp's comments...

but that said I'll still give you my 0.02!

 

I'm neither a gaper nor a hardman and when I did this route I opted for lightweight hiking boots with strap-on crampons and a hand axe. Not a rig I'd use for extended glacier travel (my feet were numb from the straps by the time I reached the other side of the glacier, and the axe was too short to be much use as a walking axe) but it allowed me to cut back on weight and still be safe.

 

The Stuart is at enough of an angle and is situated such that I think a fall is possible and would undoubtedly result in bad injury if you didn't have an axe to arrest.

[JoshK]

I did the NR of Stuart a few weeks ago and crossed the glacier from goat pass using some Goretex tennis shoes, strap on crampons and a full aluminum axe (a cassin ghost, about 9oz). The crampons were nice cause kicking steps in tennis shoes sucks. If I, personally, were to do it again I would either leave the crampons or take some of those cool lightweight aluminum ones. This was in warm sunny weather , so even in the morning the snow wasn't very hard.

 

-josh

[JoshK]

Oh, and it's probably also worth pointing out that I found the snow coming down from the false summit to cascadian couloir (assuming you are descending that way) considerably steeper than the stuart glacier. There was enough of it that I bet it's still there now. You are also most likely going to be quite tired by the time you cross it and you'll have to downclimb it, rather than go up it. I'm only pointing this out because *I* was tired and ended up slipping when some soft snow gave out beneath me. I had to arrest and got kinda cold from that little event. Not the most fun thing to do after a long day climbin.

[bcollins]

Amazing! Thanks for the reflective info without any spray. Bailing after that long of an approach would really piss me off, and I understand how icy conditions can be on a mostly north facing glacier in the early am. I think I'll see if a pair of G-12's will hold up on my approach shoes, and take a light axe. BTW, what's the best piece to protect the gendarme off-width?

 

Barry

[JoshK]

We took a #11 BD Hex for protection on the gendarme, which rumor has protects it well. I think a largish cam in the 3.5 to 4" range would work nicely too. Unfortunately, the day we were on the route we got caught in somewhat of a logjam around the 7th or 8th pitch and by the time we got to the gedarme, we decided to bail on it in favor of the faster repel and traverse option. I froze my ass off sleeping in my pack and down coat at goat pass the night before and I wasn't about to do the same on the summit.

 

Man, the gendarme looked rockin tho From the traverse we watched the first party in the logjam make their way up it. By the time we left the summit (probably 45 minutes after summiting) we still didn't see them coming up the top of the ridge, tho, so it appears we were right in assuming it would take quite a bit longer.

[JoshK]

Oh, and one more piece of info, which is probably blatently obvious for most sane people... :-)

 

Get water at ingalls lake before you head up to goat pass. We saw a large snow patch (it was at the time, at least) beneath goat pass and figure that thing must have a small stream running off it. Nope. We got to sit 400 feet beneath goat pass for 1:45 filling up water bottles from a drip 4 feet underneath that snow patch.

 

Water was available not too far down the cascadian, however, so we didn't up needing to melt snow at all.

[lunger]

for me, strap-on crampons on approach shoes worked well for the short-ish traverse on Stuart glacier (and ice axe, as indicated above an unmitigated fall would be costly).

 

two summers ago there was an over-cammed #4 Camalot stuck in the Gendarme OW--looked like a 3.5 would work fine. of course the hex is lighter, but perhaps less readily 'walked'. I used a big booty hex, don't know which number. as i recall the crux is short and difficulty quickly moderates. the Gendarme definitely adds to the climb. have fun!

 

[ 08-09-2002, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: lunger ]

[chucK]

quote:

---

Originally posted by lunger:

two summers ago there was an over-cammed #4 Camalot stuck in the Gendarme OW--looked like a 3.5 would work fine. of course the hex [#11] is lighter, but perhaps less readily 'walked'.

---

A bit of a thread drift here:

#11 Hex, weight = 206 g

#4 Friend, weight = 216 g

(source data BD and WC websites)

 

So you're right, #11 hex is lighter, by less than half an ounce. A #3.5 Camalot is significantly heavier though.

 

You can check out more size/weight comparisons on my webpage at http://home.attbi.com/~cspieker/misc/sizerang.htm

[Lambone]

word is the #4 camolot is still there.

 

Josh, I think the Gendarm is faster then the rappel variation. Especialy if you are comfortable on 5.9 granite. try it next tiime.

 

[ 08-09-2002, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Lambone ]

[Jarred_Jackman]

I was on the West Ridge today, summitted at 9:30. the snow below the false summit was soft enough I could turn around, chest facing the snow, rock in hand for brake, and slide down the snow looking through my legs, this works great for those who haven't tried it. I got quite a few looks at the North Ridge approach and i think instep crampons and a ski pole would be the ticket, if you like to walk with a ski pole. Also, try it car to car if you can, sleeping up there just means so much more weight! The nights are so warm though, the snow isn't nearly as hard as the stuff at Dragon's Tail, I was on that stuff a couple weeks ago and it was damn hard!

[goatboy]

Yeah, the #4 cam was there as of October of 2001 last time I was there -- but there's no sling or clippable point on it unless you do something odd like girth hitch the entire piece -- you CAN shamelessly grab it and stand on it as a foothold as I did, however!

 

Whatever makes you go faster, eh?

 

Steve

[JoshK]

Hmm, maybe I should head back up with some WD40 and a chisel and see if I can get myself a free #4 camalot?